'08 Dodge Cuda?

[Troy]

But, oddly enough, they are selling well..... Hmmmmm......

So are Mini Vans. No reason to defend the POS.

I'd hardly call it a POS when it outperforms everything in it's price range and class.

Class maybe - definitely not price range. Of course, the cars in the same class are the Pontiac Bonneville, Infinity G35, Nissan Maxima, and Toyota Avalon. Yeah, those cars just scream performance. It's interesting to note that the Charger also outweighs all but the Bonneville by close to 500 pounds and gets the worst mileage of the bunch. When talking price range there are plenty of vehicles that will stomp the Charger into the ground on just about every performance metric. If you just wanted to go fast why would you choose a Charger? It's competing with boring family cars so it's not like the performance bar is set really high. Can it compare with the Avalon in quality and resale value? I seriously doubt it. I know you love the thing but be realistic.

Troy

[TheGhost]

But, oddly enough, they are selling well..... Hmmmmm......

So are Mini Vans. No reason to defend the POS.

I'd hardly call it a POS when it outperforms everything in it's price range and class.

Class maybe - definitely not price range. Of course, the cars in the same class are the Pontiac Bonneville, Infinity G35, Nissan Maxima, and Toyota Avalon. Yeah, those cars just scream performance. It's interesting to note that the Charger also outweighs all but the Bonneville by close to 500 pounds and gets the worst mileage of the bunch. When talking price range there are plenty of vehicles that will stomp the Charger into the ground on just about every performance metric. If you just wanted to go fast why would you choose a Charger? It's competing with boring family cars so it's not like the performance bar is set really high. Can it compare with the Avalon in quality and resale value? I seriously doubt it. I know you love the thing but be realistic.

Troy

I said price range AND class.  Together.  There are cars in it's class that do better than it, but, they also cost about 10k more.  Just like there are cars in it's price range that do better than it, but they are in an entirely different class.  Not to mention the fact that it does outperform other vehicles, which are considered by many to be performance vehicles, such as the previous Mustangs (not quite sure on how the newer Stangs perform, so I don't know how it compares to them).  High 12s, STOCK, I might add, is pretty damn good, and there is no denying the engine statistics.  It's not NEARLY as bad a car as most of you all make it out to be.  But, I guess it must be a worthless POS, not worth the price of the scrap of the cars it's capable of outperforming, because it's not retro, and has 4 doors instead of 2.

[Big Lebowski]

I'm sure it's a fine car, but its style doesn't live up to its great name.

[FastbackJon]

But, oddly enough, they are selling well.....  Hmmmmm......

Selling well compared to what? I don't see any sales numbers, not to mention I've only seen a grand total of about four or five of them on the road in the past year in my city of a few hundred thousand people. It surely hasn't been selling 175,000 units per year like that retro styled musclecar that was built and designed by another company.

I think I could go for the retro styled Challenger personally. But I'd rather have a retro styled Charger. One that could actually compare to the coolness of my classics, and not just look like a plain sedan with Charger emblems on it.

[Johnny SixPack]

But, I guess it must be a worthless POS, not worth the price of the scrap of the cars it's capable of outperforming, because it's not retro, and has 4 doors instead of 2.

D@mn, that's the smartest thing I've seen you write, in regards to this discussion, to date.

[TheGhost]

But, oddly enough, they are selling well.....  Hmmmmm......

Selling well compared to what? I don't see any sales numbers, not to mention I've only seen a grand total of about four or five of them on the road in the past year in my city of a few hundred thousand people. It surely hasn't been selling 175,000 units per year like that retro styled musclecar that was built and designed by another company.

I think I could go for the retro styled Challenger personally. But I'd rather have a retro styled Charger. One that could actually compare to the coolness of my classics, and not just look like a plain sedan with Charger emblems on it.

It was never intended to sell 175,000 a year.  Maybe someone else has the number of Chargers sold so far, I didn't save them last time they were posted, don't know where to find them, and am too tired right now to look, but, they are exceeding sales expectations.  In other words, they are NOT a sales dissappiontment.


As for the Mustangs sales, let's see how well they sell 2-3 years from now, when the novelty has worn off.

[Big Lebowski]

But, oddly enough, they are selling well.....   Hmmmmm......

Selling well compared to what? I don't see any sales numbers, not to mention I've only seen a grand total of about four or five of them on the road in the past year in my city of a few hundred thousand people. It surely hasn't been selling 175,000 units per year like that retro styled musclecar that was built and designed by another company.

I think I could go for the retro styled Challenger personally. But I'd rather have a retro styled Charger. One that could actually compare to the coolness of my classics, and not just look like a plain sedan with Charger emblems on it.

   The Intrepid replacement is still not outselling its own replacement, the Intrepid. 6-7k a month

[FastbackJon]

What I've read is that the Chrysler 300 is the good seller, and that the Magnum wagon and Magnum sedan are not doing so well. And that the Magnum sedans that are leaving the lot are leaving without much profit. Barely above cost or with rebates, etc, and that they are also selling or trying to sell a lot of them as fleet vehicles. Another article noted that "Chrysler group executives would not provide a Charger sales goal."

[Troy]

But, oddly enough, they are selling well..... Hmmmmm......

So are Mini Vans. No reason to defend the POS.

I'd hardly call it a POS when it outperforms everything in it's price range and class.

Class maybe - definitely not price range. Of course, the cars in the same class are the Pontiac Bonneville, Infinity G35, Nissan Maxima, and Toyota Avalon. Yeah, those cars just scream performance. It's interesting to note that the Charger also outweighs all but the Bonneville by close to 500 pounds and gets the worst mileage of the bunch. When talking price range there are plenty of vehicles that will stomp the Charger into the ground on just about every performance metric. If you just wanted to go fast why would you choose a Charger? It's competing with boring family cars so it's not like the performance bar is set really high. Can it compare with the Avalon in quality and resale value? I seriously doubt it. I know you love the thing but be realistic.

Troy

I said price range AND class.  Together.  There are cars in it's class that do better than it, but, they also cost about 10k more.  Just like there are cars in it's price range that do better than it, but they are in an entirely different class.  Not to mention the fact that it does outperform other vehicles, which are considered by many to be performance vehicles, such as the previous Mustangs (not quite sure on how the newer Stangs perform, so I don't know how it compares to them).  High 12s, STOCK, I might add, is pretty damn good, and there is no denying the engine statistics.  It's not NEARLY as bad a car as most of you all make it out to be.  But, I guess it must be a worthless POS, not worth the price of the scrap of the cars it's capable of outperforming, because it's not retro, and has 4 doors instead of 2.

Generally, but not always, cars are grouped by class. The number of classes vary depending on where you get your data (for example: "Consumer Guide ® Automotive places each vehicle into one of 17 classes based on size, price, and market position."). The cars I listed are in the same class (and price range which makes up the class designation). I at least did some research. Let me mention this again... the target audience (and class) for the Charger is not the performance crowd so most of them are not all that interested purely in the performance. Some of us buy cars based on looks/style so if I were looking for a 4 door, 5 passenger performance sedan in the $40k price range I wouldn't touch it. In a later post you again compared the Charger to a Mustang yet you continually tell us that it is not a valid comparison. Make up your mind. I'm sorry, where did you see a STOCK Charger running high 12s (even Dodge only claims a 13 second "range" for the SRT8)? If you're going to compare a limited production SRT8 with anything then you better pick the correct comparison (ie Mustang Shelby GT500 which blow it off the track for the same price).

My point is (was) that throwing out performance numbers is a rediculous waste of time when trying to convince people of the greatness of the new Charger. If I want a fast car (purely for performance) I'd look at something else. If I want a car that looks good I'd look at something else. If I just had to have a Dodge to haul around the family and I wanted all the bells and whistles I'd get a Magnum (I'm not throwing my skis or mountain bike in a Charger either). If I wanted the best value and highest resale I'd look at something else as well. That's just me though and I'm sure that out of the entire world's population someone has different criteria for buying a new car.

Just FYI: my roommate's parents just bought a Charger R/T. They wanted a 300 but there weren't any on the lot and the Charger was a dealer demo with a huge discount (only 1,900 miles I think). I was told that if they had to do it all over again they'd have gotten the V-6 instead of the Hemi even with the deal they got. It's certainly a nice car (leather, DVD, heated seats, etc.) but I just don't get all jittery when I see it and I have better things to spend money on.

Troy

[TheGhost]

Another article noted that "Chrysler group executives would not provide a Charger sales goal."

Um..... they already did provide the sales goal.  When the Charger first came out.  Several months ago.....  Nice to see these people doing their research.

[Troy]

Another article noted that "Chrysler group executives would not provide a Charger sales goal."

Um..... they already did provide the sales goal. When the Charger first came out. Several months ago..... Nice to see these people doing their research.

So where is it and what is it. Enlighten us Master Researcher. Jon directly quoted an article that took me all of 5 seconds to find (AutoWeek www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102447).

Troy

[greenpigs]

Another article noted that "Chrysler group executives would not provide a Charger sales goal."

Um..... they already did provide the sales goal.   When the Charger first came out.   Several months ago.....   Nice to see these people doing their research.

Who crawled up your butt and died?

Do you have an 06 Charger in your driveway Ghost because other than that why would you defend the car?  Doing the research is not important to me but babbling about some crap box and how it is not well a crap box is retarded. My apologies to the other retarded people out in cyber land for lumping him in with you.

[RD]

Another article noted that "Chrysler group executives would not provide a Charger sales goal."

Um..... they already did provide the sales goal. When the Charger first came out. Several months ago..... Nice to see these people doing their research.

So where is it and what is it. Enlighten us Master Researcher. Jon directly quoted an article that took me all of 5 seconds to find (AutoWeek www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=102447).

Troy

Troy,
   You are going to get carpal tunnel trying to educate this kid.  Where is hotrod's quote  oh yeah,

Ancient Chinese proverb:
"Better to keep mouth shut and thought a fool
than to open and remove all doubt"

maybe ghost should read that? Just a suggestion.

[TheGhost]

Do you have an 06 Charger in your driveway Ghost

No.  Can't afford it, and if I could, the money would be going towards the resto of my Barracuda.

because other than that why would you defend the car?

Because, it's a V-8 powered, RWD car, made by DODGE, that is more than capable of roasting the tires off the rims.  Making it the first car of it's kind in 30 years.


As for the sales goals, give me a bit, and I'll see if I can find the info.  I HAVE seen it posted several times, both here and over at Moparts, however.

[Troy]

RD: Certain things grate on my nerves - like invalid/unproven "facts", blanket statements, racial slurs/anything remotely prejudicial, rudeness, the complete inability/refusal to search, responding without reading and fully comprehending, and attempts at communication by seemingly illiterate people. That's just my list for today. Most of the time I have better things to do but every once in a while I'm bored and have a little free time.

Troy

[TheGhost]

The # was 60k per year.  Apparently, it was an unnoficial number, neither confirmed nor denied by DCX.  A little fact that was failed to be mentioned in the posts....

[Brock Samson]

 i posted this on the other post too,..

  


  Chrysler. We mentioned at the end of last summer that Chrysler, despite the continued positive spin it receives from the automotive media, was sailing toward troubled waters in the fall. The Charger, which we predicted would not be the hit that Chrysler hoped, is proving to be a disappointment. Part of that is the result of Chrysler's relentless drum-beating for the car, which revolved around the assumption (on their part) that it would be a hit of 300/300C proportions. It isn't. Chrysler will trot out all kinds of data to insist that the car is doing pretty well, but based on its promised hype it hasn't delivered. The other problem is that Chrysler is in "wait for the new stuff" mode. Its new Jeep entries and its smaller crossover won't be here until next year, and in the interim the Jeep Commander and the company's reliance on big trucks are hurting them. Chrysler Group slow sellers include the Pacifica, the Dodge Ram and Dakota trucks, the Jeep Wrangler and the Jeep Liberty. And because of sluggish sales, there's now a "little" inventory problem too - a 92-day supply to be specific. "Little" from Chrysler's perspective, but for dealers who want no part of Chrysler's solution for it - it's a very big deal. Chrysler Group is offering dealers up to $750 for every extra vehicle they order up to a certain limit. The deals are designed to make Chrysler look good for the end of the year numbers, but for dealers who are in full "ASS" mode (Aren't Selling Shit) with November sales in the single digits - the incentives hold little or no interest. None of this stuff is new to Chrysler dealers, however. Chrysler has had a long history of stock piling inventory and then frantically trying to boost the numbers at the end of the year, no matter at what cost. Drive around a few locations in southeast Michigan here, and you can see where the Chrysler Group parks its inventory - and it's not pretty. We keep hearing about the "new" Chrysler and the "hot" Chrysler and the Chrysler that's supposed to have it all over Ford and GM - its downtrodden Detroit competitors - but this sounds a lot like the same 'ol Chrysler to us. And that's no surprise either.


  from "autoextreamist.com"

BTW: the latest issue of Road & Track magazine tests a 05 sedan against a '69 383,.. a dark blue car we've seen online for a few years now...
they seem to like the 05 fine but they don't seem to like the '69 very much..
but R&T has never seemed to like R/Ts or Chryslers very much..   I've   read every issue since january 1966 and they prefer the advertising   dollors and all the press junkets to the Fatherland too much...
Anyone care to disagree with that?..

[Big Lebowski]

Well lets be real, how can a '69 stand up to the '06 in braking, handling, SRT-8 1/4 mi. times. The car really would be a loser if 35 years later, it got smoked by its older brother.

[Troy]

The # was 60k per year. Apparently, it was an unnoficial number, neither confirmed nor denied by DCX. A little fact that was failed to be mentioned in the posts....

That's a "fact" What exactly are they teaching you kids these days? 

What about this?:
Industry forecaster Global Insight predicts annual sales at 70,000 for the Charger, which would make it a hit but not a home run. The Accord sold more than that in the first three months of this year.
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0504/18/A01-153838.htm

So that's what an outside analyst is predicting. However, the opening of that small article says:
The Auburn Hills unit of DaimlerChrysler AG says it has taken 20,000 orders and identified 85,000 potential buyers for the 2006 Dodge Charger sedan, which goes into production this week.
I realize that this is "neither confirmed nor denied by DCX" - it is, in fact, a statement by DCX.

To check the progress, I spent almost 10 seconds to find this on DCX's own site (November 1, 2005):
Sales of the Dodge Charger were up 1 percent month-over-month, posting sales of 7,119 units. Total units sales for the Dodge Charger since its introduction in May 2005 has exceeded 30,000 units.
http://www.daimlerchrysler.com/dccom/0,,0-5-7145-1-557467-1-0-0-0-0-0-243-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0,00.html
That projects to 60-72,000 annually depending on how you do the math (5 or 6 months - do you count the entire month of May or not?). It's difficult to use those numbers for the model year since they'd be tacking on a few extra months by releasing it in May.

FYI: That's what some people may call research but the "facts" still seem a little sketchy if you ask me.

Troy

[Big Lebowski]

Ya, on the planet '06 Chargerland, a year is 18 months long, that's how many months get included in a "years worth of sales numbers"

[FastbackJon]

To back up Troy's posts, another article I read stated that they had sold over 37,000 of them in the 7 months from May through November 2005, and that they have built approximately 69,000 of them.

I think that is pretty sad when you understand that the car is on the level with the '60's four door coronet. To compare, Dodge sold about 119,000 four door Coronets in 1966, fourty years ago. Not to mention the other 131,000 non-four door Coronets sold in the same year, plus another 37,000 more upscale two door Dodge Chargers.

That's almost 290,000 B-body sized vehicles sold by Dodge in 1966.

I'm not sure what Magnum sales are at, but I bet if you add Magnum sales and Magnum sedan sales (both a similar size to the '66 B-Body), they haven't come close to selling 290,000 units for the 2006 model year.

[Ghoste]

Troy, I'd say you would have to count the entire month of May since the article you quote is dated April 18 and production was stated as beginning that week.  Not to mention they began taking orders in March after showing the car in January.

[Troy]

I just didn't want to mislead anyone since I didn't know the "facts".

Troy

[TheGhost]

The # was 60k per year. Apparently, it was an unnoficial number, neither confirmed nor denied by DCX. A little fact that was failed to be mentioned in the posts....

That's a "fact" What exactly are they teaching you kids these days? 

You misunderstood.  I was commenting on how in all the posts I've seen which mentioned the 60k target, NOBODY said it wasn't an official DCX number, and actually treated it like it was official, which misled me.  I'm now slightly dissillusioned.

[Troy]

The # was 60k per year. Apparently, it was an unnoficial number, neither confirmed nor denied by DCX. A little fact that was failed to be mentioned in the posts....

That's a "fact" What exactly are they teaching you kids these days?

You misunderstood. I was commenting on how in all the posts I've seen which mentioned the 60k target, NOBODY said it wasn't an official DCX number, and actually treated it like it was official, which misled me. I'm now slightly dissillusioned.

Ah, don't be disillusioned. I have no problem with someone liking the car or even bragging about it if it fits their taste in vehicles. Just try to stick with information that can be verified before ripping on someone else (I honestly don't recall seeing that number before but I might not have been paying attention either). What I do have a problem with is someone telling me I should like it based on criteria that means nothing to me or that I'm not a real Mopar fan if I don't like it. People are different and they have different tastes. I don't think I could ever fall in love with the styling of the new Charger and probably wouldn't buy one even if they made it faster AND dropped the price. I would, however, buy something slower and/or more expensive if I fell in love with the styling. That's just me. I really don't care if someone likes exactly what I do (I'd prefer that they didn't).

Troy