Have you ever seen day and night?

[Vainglory, Esq.]

It appears that the Court (conservative Judge as I understand) agrees with my position.   Teach your children well, in public school teach them science while in church or private school teach them "alternative" theories.   What is really sad is that the Christians (according to the Judge) outright lied and lied.   And this was under oath?   So much for the concept that an oath means anything.   Merry Xmas.   Kim

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/20/science/sciencespecial2/20cnd-evolution.html?incamp=article_popular_5

Would it be terribly ironic for me to say "thank God"?

Intelligent design "theory" doesn't even fit the bare bones definitions of what is science.

[Orange_Crush]

BRING ON THE SHIT STORM!!!!

[bull]

Too late, OC. It's all over.

[ChargerBill]

I just want to know this: Doesn't science stand firm on the theory of chaos...that everything tends toward chaos and away from order? Any science buffs out there? Isn't the universe expanding outward continuosly?

[last426]

I just want to know this: Doesn't science stand firm on the theory of chaos...that everything tends toward chaos and away from order? Any science buffs out there? Isn't the universe expanding outward continuosly?

That is not my understanding of chaos theory at all.  I think it is taking seemingly random things and through math using them to predict something non-random, although variable.  Like a fractal.  Chaos theory, as I remember, explains mathematically the growth of a tree or the way a river meanders through seemingly flat land.  And yes, the current thought is that the universe is expanding, although I do not think that they would say continuously.  Kim

[ChargerBill]

I just want to know this: Doesn't science stand firm on the theory of chaos...that everything tends toward chaos and away from order? Any science buffs out there? Isn't the universe expanding outward continuosly?

That is not my understanding of chaos theory at all.   I think it is taking seemingly random things and through math using them to predict something non-random, although variable.   Like a fractal.   Chaos theory, as I remember, explains mathematically the growth of a tree or the way a river meanders through seemingly flat land.   And yes, the current thought is that the universe is expanding, although I do not think that they would say continuously.   Kim

1) Actually, the chaos theory is used to attempt to predict occurances from chaos...to find patterns or predictability. The basic premise is that chaos tends toward chaos, entropy tends toward entropy and disorder tends toward disorder. There has in fact been not a single scientific study or experiment that has shown order to come from disorder...period.

2) The universe is expanding...and it happens continuosly (it doesn't stop). Scientists have proven this through measurements of distances between celestial bodies. The fact is, it will continue to expand indefinitely (at least in human terms regarding time). As such, if you were to pick three points and create a triangulation between them you would see that the triangle is larger today than yesterday and even larger still 5 years from now. If then, you reversed time the triangle would become increasingly smaller..until all three celestial bodies merged and it was nothing but a singular point.

3) Science also states that matter is constant and there is no matter that exists today that didn't exist yesterday. Matter can neither be destroyed or created, only transformed into another form.

SO, if the universe started at a finite point (proven by scientific theory) then how was all that matter contained in a finite point?..it couldn't have been if you know anything about relativity. And if according to the theory chaos becomes more chaotic, then how did a supposed primordial stew simply become ordered living organisms? The more you think about it and apply the logic that has been thrown in the face of Christianity and creationists, science actually debunks itself and points toward a CREATOR outside of time and space.

[last426]

I just want to know this: Doesn't science stand firm on the theory of chaos...that everything tends toward chaos and away from order? Any science buffs out there? Isn't the universe expanding outward continuosly?

That is not my understanding of chaos theory at all.   I think it is taking seemingly random things and through math using them to predict something non-random, although variable.   Like a fractal.   Chaos theory, as I remember, explains mathematically the growth of a tree or the way a river meanders through seemingly flat land.   And yes, the current thought is that the universe is expanding, although I do not think that they would say continuously.   Kim

1) Actually, the chaos theory is used to attempt to predict occurances from chaos...to find patterns or predictability. The basic premise is that chaos tends toward chaos, entropy tends toward entropy and disorder tends toward disorder. There has in fact been not a single scientific study or experiment that has shown order to come from disorder...period.

2) The universe is expanding...and it happens continuosly (it doesn't stop). Scientists have proven this through measurements of distances between celestial bodies. The fact is, it will continue to expand indefinitely (at least in human terms regarding time). As such, if you were to pick three points and create a triangulation between them you would see that the triangle is larger today than yesterday and even larger still 5 years from now. If then, you reversed time the triangle would become increasingly smaller..until all three celestial bodies merged and it was nothing but a singular point.

3) Science also states that matter is constant and there is no matter that exists today that didn't exist yesterday. Matter can neither be destroyed or created, only transformed into another form.

SO, if the universe started at a finite point (proven by scientific theory) then how was all that matter contained in a finite point?..it couldn't have been if you know anything about relativity. And if according to the theory chaos becomes more chaotic, then how did a supposed primordial stew simply become ordered living organisms? The more you think about it and apply the logic that has been thrown in the face of Christianity and creationists, science actually debunks itself and points toward a CREATOR outside of time and space.

I am not reading any of your "stuff" because you were apparently disingenuous in asking the questions and I don't deal with dishonest people.  Regardless, what I read of your thinking on chaos was simply an undereducated high school argument.  Bill, these subjects are not intuitive or subject to common sense -- I don't pretend to have all the answers but I am fairly well read and have an undying interest in science.  Heck, the last book I read for pleasure was a lay math book.  Hey, if you're happy in your beliefs, as uninformed as I might consider them, go for it.  I just hope that folks of a similar ilk are never in a position to influence my life.  They certainly aren't making any difference in the field of science.  And thankfully that judge felt the same way.  By the way, the judge in the ID case was a conservative Bush appointee.

[ChargerBill]

I am not reading any of your "stuff" because you were apparently disingenuous in asking the questions and I don't deal with dishonest people.   Regardless, what I read of your thinking on chaos was simply an undereducated high school argument.   Bill, these subjects are not intuitive or subject to common sense -- I don't pretend to have all the answers but I am fairly well read and have an undying interest in science.   Heck, the last book I read for pleasure was a lay math book.   Hey, if you're happy in your beliefs, as uninformed as I might consider them, go for it.   I just hope that folks of a similar ilk are never in a position to influence my life.   They certainly aren't making any difference in the field of science.   And thankfully that judge felt the same way.   By the way, the judge in the ID case was a conservative Bush appointee.

If you read my "stuff" you'd see that I am not misinformed at all...I've studied up on the topic. My question was not dishonest, it was leading...something I'm sure lawyers are familiar with. You might also be aware that some people just SHUT OFF when their position is threatened in any way, that is why I asked the question instead of posting my position on the topic (which everyone knows anyway). I am also interested in science, but I am of the belief that science and God are not mutually exclusive, but are rather quite compatable...since of course God is the author and designer of science.

[Big Lebowski]

New York Times? A credible news source?  Or a bunch of traitors,  what National Security secret will they leak next?

[bull]

Looks like OC is going to get to witness that storm after all.

[ChargerBill]

Naaa, this doesn't need to get ot of hand...what's wrong with a fun and intelligent debate?