primer over primers

[c00nhunterjoe]

it seems the primer of choice is the epoxy primers based on the sealing properties. can you use an etching primer first then epoxy prime over that? the reason i ask is i am, by far, no body man and i like the way the etch primer "hides" my imperfections.

[jaak]

No, alot of epoxy state on the tech sheet, to not use etch. Most use either etch or epoxy, but not both. Epoxy has great sealing properties and is the choice for bare metal. What kind of "imperfections" are you trying to hide? If you are refering to sandscratches/pinholes in filler/very minor low spots...I would suggest a poly-primer (after the epoxy) Its a high-build primer (that dont shrink like urethanes) thats meant just for that purpose. Of coarse after blocking the poly. But you don't wanna leave the car outside in just poly (it soaks up moisture like a sponge). If you car is gonna be outside and/or in use while in primer....It definately needs epoxy. Epoxy is the best 'protection' primer, but it is not UV resistant so it will fade.

Jason

[Silver R/T]

You can use polyester primer over etch primer or use epoxy primer over whole surface. You only watch etching primer for bare steel, you don't want to spray it over body filler. You should pick up product sheet for primer you will be using and it will tell you what surface you want to use it on.

[AdamMopar]

it seems the primer of choice is the epoxy primers based on the sealing properties. can you use an etching primer first then epoxy prime over that? the reason i ask is i am, by far, no body man and i like the way the etch primer "hides" my imperfections.

I'm not sure that I follow you exactly with your etch primer "hiding" your imperfections.  It shouldn't help anymore than an epoxy primer, probably less so.

As stated epoxy primer will be the best option and then a polyester primer over that.

[superbirdtom]

just make sure after blocking out the polyester high fill primer  you epoxy seal it again before you paint over it.

[Tilar]

So if I am sanding fenders down to the bare metal, I epoxy prime, Do my body work, Filler primer, block sand and epoxy again before I paint?

[mauve66]

 

i have bare metal and filler right next to each other also

[Tilar]

That's the way I always did it in the past. This is my first round with epoxy primer which is why I asked.

[AdamMopar]

I don't typically do filler over epoxy primer unless it is a weld seam.  Though certainly plenty of people do.

For me the reason being as you stated, after you block the filler the first time you will be back to metal around it, and most people won't put another coat of epoxy down before putting on another coat of filler, so ultimately you end up with bare metal under your filler anyway.

That said certainly fillter over epoxy is a good choice for corrosion protection, but as long as you do a couple coats of epoxy over the panel, you will be fine regardless.

My opinion anyway.

[hemi-hampton]

Read this Thread, Should answer some Questions    LEON.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,49001.0.html

[mauve66]

now i see why body shops charge $10K for a paint job

didn't think we needed another thread on this stuff, so without totally hijacking a thread..............

that link seemed to talk about stripping everything down to metal, or blasting down to metal then coming back out, what if your not doing that this time??

i had everything stripped to metal 12 years ago and painted base coat/clear coat (Omni brand was the only thing we could find in the stock color and my price range) so this time i was just going to scuff the paint/clearcoat and use it like a base epoxy primer since it has held up really well, just the normal door/bicycle dings (no rusting under the paint)

after i had some welding done, the welder used some marglass to cover the welded spots and create a slightly different contour on the body (he also used some bondo (brand unknown) on top of the marglass which will be 98% taken back off (i want to change the contour slightly)

from the welder grinding on the paint around the area he was welding i do still have some bare metal (low humidity, still shiny after 3 months)

body work left to do right now (i wouldn't even call it body work really) will be very minor in my thinking, just getting clear coat down so everything is level and finding all low spots on doors/roof to put the high-fill primer on

car will be painted base coat/clear coat again but am hoping to use a higher quality paint this time............... I don't think the Omni really came that close to the original paint from when i' saw the Bloomington Ghost survivor paint one time back in '96

#1. do i still have to epoxy primer the small areas that are exposed before using the high-fill primer to even things out (door dings/low spots we never got 12 years ago)??
#2. should i just epoxy primer everything right now even though some body work is done already then finish whatever body work is left??

[hemi-hampton]

I'd finish the body work that still needs be done, Then epoxy prime the bad spots or bodyworked spots, then surface prime bodywork areas. Then seal entire car before painting. Epoxy primer can be used as a sealer also.    LEON.

[mauve66]

soooo......

1. finish "bodywork" (level clearcoat/basecoat, take out door dings)
2. epoxy prime bare metal spots, body putty areas only
3. surface prime (highfill) everything
4. epoxy primer again to seal everything
5. paint everything

[hemi-hampton]

I'd only do #3, high build primer on everything if the old paint gets heavy duty blocked because is is wavy. If car allready straight no need to high build prime everything. LEON.

[mauve66]

ok, thanks

car is very straight as far as i'm concerned, just door dings that broke the paint and when i sand across it you can see occasional low spots that are still shiny until i get deeper into the clearcoat
as far as i can tell i haven't sanded through the clear in most places (wouldn't the sanding residue be mauve from the paint pigment???)

[hemi-hampton]

Wouldn't be mauve unless you go thru  the clear. What grit you sanding it with. Wet sand entire car with 400 or 600 just before you seal whole car just before painting. If you block old paint with something course like 150 or 240 then you would need to prime entire car & resand to get these scratches out. LEON.


P.S. Don't leave any shiny spots

[mauve66]

just trying to get everything level with 120 (orbital sander) and "sh## brick" , wonder what grit "sh## brick" would be??

so from the 120 and sh## brick i need to go straight to a 400/600 or do i need a step in-between like 250-300??

then you say wet sand 400/600

Wouldn't be mauve unless you go thru  the clear. What grit you sanding it with. Wet sand entire car with 400 or 600 just before you seal whole car just before painting. If you block old paint with something course like 150 or 240 then you would need to prime entire car & resand to get these scratches out. LEON.


P.S. Don't leave any shiny spots

i thought sealing entire car was epoxy primer??
but you said just to do step #3

I'd only do #3, high build primer on everything if the old paint gets heavy duty blocked because is is wavy. If car allready straight no need to high build prime everything. LEON.

am i mis understanding??  sorry for the 80 questions, i already messed up starting with 60 grit thinking i had to get all the way through the clearcoat to the base coat for a good "base"
so now i'm fixing that with the 120 and sh## brick but sounds like i'm still waaaay off base here

one thing i did understand is

Wouldn't be mauve unless you go thru  the clear. What grit you sanding it with. Wet sand entire car with 400 or 600 just before you seal whole car just before painting. If you block old paint with something course like 150 or 240 then you would need to prime entire car & resand to get these scratches out. LEON.


P.S. Don't leave any shiny spots

[AdamMopar]

If you have been using a DA and started with 60 grit and are now at 120 grit, you are definately going to have to prime and block the car.

Using a DA won't give you a straight panel.

With where you are, assuming you have gone over the whole car at this point, I would spary the whole car with two coats of epoxy primer and three good coats of 2k urethane primer surfacer.  Then guide coat and start blocking the car, by hand, with 220 grit and then switch to 320 or 400, and finish with 400 if you are doing a solid, and 600 or so if you are doing a metallic.  You may have to spray an additional coat of surfacer after the 220 depending upon how things look.

That's how I would handle it.

[hemi-hampton]

What steps to do depends on what you planned on doing which I was not aware of, or what you allready did which I was not aware of. A oribital sander or Dual Action (D.A.) sander will not get it straight. You need a long 6" or more block. What grit to use depends on how straight you want it. & how much you go thru old paint to get straight determines if you'll need sealer or primer. If you plan on sealing & not priming then start off with 320-600. If you plan on priming then start off with the 150. If you started of with 150 you might as well go to town, sand thru old paint & reprime. LEON.

[mauve66]

i was doing the roof and drivers door with the 60 when i was told it was too much so i got a DA to fix the large panels quicker and only used 120 with the DA to get the heavy scratches from the 60 out, everything from the firewall back is currently done (still some low spots so, not totally done yet) first with the 120 on the DA and then a 6 inch sh## brick.

i like the sh## brick as it conforms to the panel really easily and doesn't just dig in like a normal flat sanding surface would as the panel curves (i never noticed before how much each panel curves on a 1st gen )

i just don't know what the sh## brick compares to as far as grit, when i talk to the guys at the paint/body store they say they don't give advise without seeing the car and i can't bring it to them at this point.  i thought about taking the trunk lid off and letting them see it but don't know if its really worth that trouble since they won't give some basic guidelines. 

i guess i originally thought that there were set in stone steps to do, in this order, at this time frame, all the time, every time, but it seems like alot of it is personal experience based on the person doing it??

since i still seem to be in the clearcoat i was thinking i could just hand sand the low spots to get rid of the shiny look, use the high fill primer to build them up then start sanding again by changing the grit out to 300 then 400 then 600 (with as long of a board as i can get away with of course, but alot of the car i won't be able to use a board on at all that i can tell due to curves in the panel, see pics)

blue line is a double curve (in at bottom, out at top)
red line looks flat but its not, has a slight curve over the whole panel
to me i would think a flat sanding board would dig in along the length of the board as the angle of the curve changes on the blue line
and not sand evenly across the width of the board as the angle changes on the red line

hope this is better info for you guys

[hemi-hampton]

What's a sh##t Brick? Post a picture. I'm not hip to that terminology  LEON.

P.S. Always remember, you ask 10 different people a question you'll get approximately 10 different answers

[jaak]

What's a sh##t Brick? Post a picture. I'm not hip to that terminology   LEON.

I think the real name is grill brick....it gets the name shit brick, because it stinks when you use it (when we was kids we called it fart-rock, lol)
Its actually an abrasive "brick" used to clean grills, alot of folks in the food industry use it to clean their equipment, there is alot of folks in the autobody industry that use it for blocking irregular surfaces, because it conforms to it.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BAT8D4/ref=sr_1_8/183-2589481-8675910?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1216846976&sr=8-8

Jason

[mauve66]

i can't tell if thats it from the pic but it probably is, i don't think it would clean a grill though cause its not very tuff at all, i can dig my fingure into the side of it pretty easliy......... or maybe i just burn my food on the grill more than most people do???

What's a sh##t Brick? Post a picture. I'm not hip to that terminology   LEON.

P.S. Always remember, you ask 10 different poeople a question you'll get approximately 10 different answers

thats why i keep getting confused and then i was worrying that everyone else was taking theirs to bare metal and i'm not, i'm pretty confident of the base/clear we put down before that its taking care of the metal, no rust through in 12 years

[hemi-hampton]

Don't know anything about those Bricks, I do body work & Painting, not Grill cleaning.