Spanish Immersion school?

[elacruze]

Dude, I live in L.A. and I know what you mean. But still...give it a generation or two and you won't see that sort of thing anymore. Although there have always been hispanics in the U.S., the majority of them (legal or illegal, its irrelevant in this context)- the ones that have been "invading" the country as that guy put it a while back - only started coming 30-40 years ago. It takes 2-3 generations for most large immigrant cultures to assimilate, and hispanics are still maybe on the 2nd generation. I know that the Spanish only stores and Telemundo don't make it seem like there's assimilation going on, but there is. even if the parents can't or won't learn the language and culture, the kids will.

I think this comparison is faulty on many different levels, mostly due to then vs current immigration policy, legal vs illegal status, distance of migration, and our nations newer/differing policies of tolerance and accommodation, amongst others.

Either way you slice it, it makes a lot of sense to be able to communicate with your neighbors so if the opportunity exists, especially if you live the South or West, some classroom exposure to Spanish is a smart thing to do.

This is something I've noted missing from all the immigration discussion-the fact that Mexicans don't have to cross an ocean to get here. That single fact makes it possible for people of lesser means to arrive, and without documents. Traditionally everybody who immigrated had to have papers to board the boat, and to debark. The romantic notion that stowaways arrived in any quantity is ridiculous. Mexico is the only country from which destitute and desperate people can immigrate. Therefore there can't be a direct comparison between Mexican immigration and historic immigration of other groups.

[bull]

[
That's just Capitalism doing what it does best.

Right, and so is shipping jobs to China, Enron execs robbing pensions and Chrysler making a four door Charger.

Got any better alternatives, comrade?

Yes. Adhering to ethical business standards and buying American. Neither of which seems to be possible with the current suit and tie crowd running the capitalism show.

[bull]

This is something I've noted missing from all the immigration discussion-the fact that Mexicans don't have to cross an ocean to get here. That single fact makes it possible for people of lesser means to arrive, and without documents. Traditionally everybody who immigrated had to have papers to board the boat, and to debark. The romantic notion that stowaways arrived in any quantity is ridiculous. Mexico is the only country from which destitute and desperate people can immigrate. Therefore there can't be a direct comparison between Mexican immigration and historic immigration of other groups.

So... what? All that says to me is we need to make it a lot tougher for people to cross our southern border. And I think that part of the discussion has hardly been missing from the immigration debate. And you don't think anyone else made it here from places other than Mexico that wasn't destitute and desperate? I seriously doubt the Chinese and Irish had gobs of money coming here. And remember not too long ago the mass influx of about 125,000 Cubans on rinky-dink boats? If 600 people at a time can make it into a harbor I bet you'd have a helluva time catching 10% of them if they don't want to get caught.

[elacruze]

This is something I've noted missing from all the immigration discussion-the fact that Mexicans don't have to cross an ocean to get here. That single fact makes it possible for people of lesser means to arrive, and without documents. Traditionally everybody who immigrated had to have papers to board the boat, and to debark. The romantic notion that stowaways arrived in any quantity is ridiculous. Mexico is the only country from which destitute and desperate people can immigrate. Therefore there can't be a direct comparison between Mexican immigration and historic immigration of other groups.

So... what? All that says to me is we need to make it a lot tougher for people to cross our southern border. And I think that part of the discussion has hardly been missing from the immigration debate. And you don't think anyone else made it here from places other than Mexico that wasn't destitute and desperate? I seriously doubt the Chinese and Irish had gobs of money coming here. And remember not too long ago the mass influx of about 125,000 Cubans on rinky-dink boats? If 600 people at a time can make it into a harbor I bet you'd have a helluva time catching 10% of them if they don't want to get caught.

I'm only pointing out that most people on the anti-immigration/anti-spanish language side of the debate inevitably point to previous groups of immigrants for comparison, when it is apples to oranges. Obviously, a lot of immigrants got here on their last dime or borrowed money, and arrived penniless. However, they did somehow have to pay the boat fare before boarding so they had something. And, more importantly, they had some previous notion of expectations before they came-they had something of a plan before they arrived. Not necessary when all you have to do is carry a backpack full of powerbars and water.
Study up a little on the Cuban "Mass Influx". You obviously don't know all the facts-they didn't come in rinky dink boats, and they were mostly white-collar workers and professionals. The Cuban boat lift of the '80's is perceived as 'releasing cuban prisons into the US' because a percentage of them were exacty that-and the Cuban government's requirement for leaving to the US was that the US had to take some bad with the good-I think that's fair considering the drain on Cuba's intellectual reserves. What we did with them when they arrived here, is not Cuba's fault, it is our own.
For what it's worth, very few floaters whether Cuban, Haitian, or whatever, make it anywhere near shore. Coast Guard and satellite finds them long before they get near shore. And at what point is 600 or 125,000 immigrants relevant to Mexican immigration of 20 million?
I want to point out as always, I believe the answer to the problem is fencing or walling the southern border, as has Israel. It's ugly and unfriendly but effective. Also, as I've said before, Business and Legislators do not want the problem fixed *AT ALL* because it is economically undesirable.

Back to foreign language...

[PocketThunder]

Back to foreign language...

I talked to the neighbor kid last night and he said if you can get into a second language early on its probably a good idea.  He is taking Chinese and has had two years of it in High School.  The babysitter, his sister is taking spanish and has done well learning it also.  They both thought English school would be just fine though and the second language could come later.  They, and thier mom, thought it was a good idea also to let our son stay in English school and not have the extra work load of learning two languages at his young age. 

So in conclusion i guess it all comes down to each individuals decion for what fits for their family.   

Paul

Now, back to Immigration! 

My ancestors got off the boat in the 1850's and trucked along the country side stopping in Wisconsin to set up farms.  I wish they would have kept going to Colorado so i could have grown up snowboarding in the rockies...   

[John_Kunkel]

Nah, those are the relatively recent arrivals (80's-now). As far as I know, my family's been here since the 1950's (my grandparents were the first ones to arrive)...so that would make my mom 2nd generation and that would make me 3rd. My brother and I still speak Spanish, but the younger kids in my family - including my 17 year old sister, don't. But you talk to some of those old school Mexican-Americans, and they know maybe a word or two of Spanish, but can't hold a conversation.

I know you guys are pretty skeptical, and it's understandable, but to paraphrase that song...."I believe the children are the future" (even the anchor babies).

I could fill this page with examples that I know of where four generations in the same family speak Spanish at home and in the family business.

I love Mexican food and each and every family-owned restaurant I frequent has the owners speaking English to the customers and Spanish among themselves (granny, kids, grandkids) In some areas around my neck of the woods hearing the English language makes you turn out of disbelief.

Sorry to disagree, but I don't think assimilation is high on the priority list of most Latinos, they're too proud of their culture.

[Ponch ®]

Nah, those are the relatively recent arrivals (80's-now). As far as I know, my family's been here since the 1950's (my grandparents were the first ones to arrive)...so that would make my mom 2nd generation and that would make me 3rd. My brother and I still speak Spanish, but the younger kids in my family - including my 17 year old sister, don't. But you talk to some of those old school Mexican-Americans, and they know maybe a word or two of Spanish, but can't hold a conversation.

I know you guys are pretty skeptical, and it's understandable, but to paraphrase that song...."I believe the children are the future" (even the anchor babies).

I could fill this page with examples that I know of where four generations in the same family speak Spanish at home and in the family business.

I love Mexican food and each and every family-owned restaurant I frequent has the owners speaking English to the customers and Spanish among themselves (granny, kids, grandkids) In some areas around my neck of the woods hearing the English language makes you turn out of disbelief.

Sorry to disagree, but I don't think assimilation is high on the priority list of most Latinos, they're too proud of their culture.

So if they're conducting business in English but communicate in spanish among themselves...what's the issue? Wasn't that the big argument in the "speak english thread"? They speak english (probably better than Silver R/T, at least) and obviously have the acumen to own and conduct a business. I for one think that its entirely possible to assimilate while keeping the important parts of one's culture alive, and if anything, those families that own those restaurants are a prime example of that.

I'm proud of my culture too, and I'm pretty aware of it's traditions and history...but that has absolutely no bearing whatsoever in how I conduct myself otherwise or make me feel less of an American. On this site, for example, no one would guess that I'm Hispanic/Latino/Mexican-American/ American-of-Mexican-heritage/ whatever you wanna call me if weren't for some of the posts were I explicitly allude to it.  

Or what...now we want to ban cultural practices too? Where are we...France?

[loudmouthaussie]

earlier the better for language. they gotta keep it up though or its all wasted. other languages get forgotten quickly when speaking english day to day.

my friend has sicilian parents but they never spoke to him in italian coz they didnt want him to speak english 'with a wog accent' hes into traveling as an adult so really wishes they had!!

[mauve66]

make sure you monitor the kids progress, 6 yr commitment my ass, they can't make your kid stay in that class if you decide its not best later, this is a public school system right??

when i lived in NY i was sent to special progress classes for 7th and 8th grade, 90% of us were A+ students all the time, but one of the requirements of the class was to take a language class.  we had a choice of spanish or french, the french girls were hotter sooooooooo....................

after 2 yrs in the program i was kicked out due to failing the language classes even though i still had STRAIGHT A'S in every other class for those 2 years, this also killed my chances of taking advanced classes in high school as those classes were only in the special progress courses with more language required classes.  as a result of the "regular level" classes i got bored and started cutting school and doing various other things including stealing a car, luckily i moved to MO just before things really got out of hand.

when i got to MO, their 11th grade biology book was the exact same one i used in 8th grade in NY, but i was happier living around more family members so even though i was STILL bored at school i didn't get into too much trouble.................

i also tried to learn german when stationed overseas for 3 years and retained nothing, NOT EVERYONE CAN LEARN ANOTHER LANGUAGE EVEN IF THEY HAVE A LITTLE BRAIN LIKE MINE


if your kids can learn a language then great but monitor your kids progress don't let them get frustrated with school in general due to this program

[John_Kunkel]

So if they're conducting business in English but communicate in spanish among themselves...what's the issue? Wasn't that the big argument in the "speak english thread"? They speak english (probably better than Silver R/T, at least) and obviously have the acumen to own and conduct a business. I for one think that its entirely possible to assimilate while keeping the important parts of one's culture alive, and if anything, those families that own those restaurants are a prime example of that.

I think you miss the point, they're speaking Spanish among themselves in front of the customers. You probably don't see this as an affront, many do. (just like those who yak on a cell phone in public places)

As far as "English only", I'd like to see it made into government policy to eliminate the multi-lingual literature the government is required to print so as to please everybody.

[Ponch ®]

So if they're conducting business in English but communicate in spanish among themselves...what's the issue? Wasn't that the big argument in the "speak english thread"? They speak english (probably better than Silver R/T, at least) and obviously have the acumen to own and conduct a business. I for one think that its entirely possible to assimilate while keeping the important parts of one's culture alive, and if anything, those families that own those restaurants are a prime example of that.

I think you miss the point, they're speaking Spanish among themselves in front of the customers. You probably don't see this as an affront, many do. (just like those who yak on a cell phone in public places)

As far as "English only", I'd like to see it made into government policy to eliminate the multi-lingual literature the government is required to print so as to please everybody.

But at that point you're talking etiquette...and I won't disagree with you on that. But the crux of the issue is whether they can/want to learn english...obviously they do - they just choose not to speak it all the time.

I also agree that the government should stop printing forms in 20 diff languages, but sometimes it's for practical reasons. Like Driver's License exams and the like. So you say "well, if they can't take the test in English, they shouldn't have a license anyway". The problem with that is it would only lead to a ton of unlicensed, uninsured drivers on the road...because the lack of a license usually doesn't stop people from driving. Or Tax forms. But things like Citizenship forms, exams, passport applications, etc...definitely should only be in English.