Spanish Immersion school?

[PocketThunder]

I thought i would add this to the tail end of "In America its English, learn it" but maybe i'll start my own thread and let that one run its course, whatever course its on. 


So what do you guys think about spanish immersion school?  My son starts Kindergarten in the fall and 3/4 of the class is enrolling in spanish immersion, a few are in chinese immersion, and we are staying with English.  All the talk is that you have to do immerison school because the childrens minds are so open at a young age and they can soak up the second language easier now than at an older age, say High School, etc...

We want our kids to learn English very well, and then pick up a second language later on in there school career.  But i wonder if i'm going to create more work for my kids by sticking with English vs letting them learn spanish while they are young..?...??

We dont speak any other language but English with family and neighbors and we dont know anyone who does.  Maybe that has to do with living in the fridgid extreme north of flyover land.

Paul

[elacruze]

Here's my 1/2 :

If I had kids that age, and had the opportunity, I would enroll them in ALL the immersion classes. Learning other languages at an early age will enable them to better understand the underlying structures of language, which will help them perfect their English later in their education.

I voluntarily enrolled in German, French, and Spanish in the past. I've spent time immersed in German and Spanish and both have paid off handsomely in certain places. I wish I had known or been guided into doing more with foreign language. My English was much improved as well.

<edit> LOL I forgot, just yesterday I had my first Pashto class. Just in case I vacation in Afghanistan sometime in the future.

Eric

[RallyeMike]

I agree 100% with Elacruze: Depending on where your kids end up or what they are doing knowing other languages can open doors of opportunities and keep them being disadvantaged.
Spanish is destined to become the 2nd official language of the US, so they may as well get a head start.

[hemi68charger]

Every child is different, make sure it doesn't effect their overall academic performance... One can take a foreign language once they are in high school and college as well... You don't want to overwhelm the little guys..... I'm all for learning a second or third language. I have taught myself French and Spanish, but am very rusty now.

Troy

[Old Moparz]

My daughter has been taking Spanish classes in one form or another since pre-k & does well. Being in a school district that has a very large Spanish speaking community has a lot to do with it too. I think it's a great idea to teach kids very young since it's much harder when you are older.

I eagerly took Spanish in 7th grade & ended up hating it, mostly because of the teacher, so I tried German in 8th grade. I liked the teacher & did much better, but the guy had a heart attack late in the school year & then retired. So, since there were no other German teachers avaiable, something to do with them all hiding in Brazil I think, I had to pick another language. For whatever ingenious made up reason, you need 2 years of a foreign language for entry into college, so it was back to Spanish class again since it sounded better than taking freakin' French.

I hated it all over again, as well as both teachers that I had in 9th & 10th grade. As of today, I can proudly count to 20 in Spanish without thinking much about what number comes next. I can also recite a bunch of swear words & tell you you have a small pecker, but that stuff I learned from the Puerto Rican guy I used to work with. 

[Ponch ®]

Not to start another debate, but Spanish isn't taking over. In fact, in a generation or two of assimilation, there will be as many Hispanics using Spanish as their first language as there are Italian-Americans or German-Americans speaking those respective languages NOW. In other words, not that many - so knowing Spanish isn't really going to be that important. Don't be fooled by all the current paranoia and "white anxiety" that's en vogue now. Or maybe I'm just taking my being English/Spanish bilingual for granted.

But like I said in the other other thread, if and when I have kids (hopefully not anytime soon), I'm sending them to Chinese/Mandarin classes. If you want your kids to have an edge, that's what theyre gonna need to learn.

I wouldn't worry about your kids not learning English well if they try to learn another language. They can handle it. I've related the story of my two cousins several times before. Their dad is Serbian and their mom (my aunt) is Mexican-American so their first language at home was English. But before they were old enough for any kind of schooling they were cared for either by my grandma (who only spoke to them in Spanish) or their other grandma (who only spoke to them in whatever language she speaks) while their parents were at work. It was fascinating to see this 3 year old talk to my grandma in Spanish, then talk on the phone with his other grandma in the other language, and then tell me what he just talked about on the phone - in English. So they speak perfect English now, but its kind of a shame that as they got older and the grandmas weren't taking care of them anymore they forgot the other two languages.

[tricky lugnuts]

Agree with the others - there's supposedly no time for learning languages like when you're young.

Of course, that's not to say it can't be done at a later date. I loved the four quarters of Espanol I took in college. It's just when you're young the brain is naturally more curious and forming all those developing neural connections, I suppose.

Of course, if your kid is learning Spanish in kindergarten and doesn't stick with it through elementary school and high school and college, what's the purpose really? Same with Chinese or German or French or any other language.

Aside from becoming fluent, I can see no real advantage to it other than impressive friends over a glass of wine or helping lost tourists with directions, etc. Of course, strong linguistic abilities likely open up a whole new realm of career opportunities.

I'd say go for it and see if the kid likes it. Better to have the knowledge and ability than not! And as boring as English grammar and usage classes have always been for me, I've found that studying a foreign language really causes you to wonder more and learn more about your own language as a side effect.

I agree slightly with Ponch about Mandarin/Chinese as opposed to Spanish classes. But why not do both if your kid wants to? I'm no parent, but I imagine the best thing you could do is give the little dude options, even if you have to steer him into those options a little, and let him decide from there. Hell, get him a piano, a tennis racket and some golf clubs, too!

[PocketThunder]

The immersion program is a 6 year commitment, so if he doesnt like it after a couple years he is stuck there till 6th grade, at that time they put all kids together in English and the immersions kids can pick up a class to continue thier second language. 

Our babysitters younger brother is taking chinese right now and he's in HS, i'll have to ask him how its working out for him.

Paul

[hemi68charger]

Not to start another debate, but Spanish isn't taking over. In fact, in a generation or two of assimilation, there will be as many Hispanics using Spanish as their first language as there are Italian-Americans or German-Americans speaking those respective languages NOW. In other words, not that many - so knowing Spanish isn't really going to be that important. Don't be fooled by all the current paranoia and "white anxiety" that's en vogue now. Or maybe I'm just taking my being English/Spanish bilingual for granted.

...

I disagree from my point of view. Try living in Houston, the sanctuary capital of the US. There are Spanish-only Supermarkets popping up.. Come on, give me a break.

[bull]

Not to start another debate, but Spanish isn't taking over. In fact, in a generation or two of assimilation, there will be as many Hispanics using Spanish as their first language as there are Italian-Americans or German-Americans speaking those respective languages NOW. In other words, not that many - so knowing Spanish isn't really going to be that important. Don't be fooled by all the current paranoia and "white anxiety" that's en vogue now. Or maybe I'm just taking my being English/Spanish bilingual for granted.

I don't think it's "white anxiety" or whatever label you decide on if your chances of getting a job as a teacher are drastically decreased if you don't know how to speak Spanish. Hispanics assimilating "in a generation or two" isn't going to help my wife get a job as a teacher in 2011 unless she learns Spanish now, according to the public school teachers she's been talking to.

As far as the topic, sure. I think kids learning a second or third language is an excellent idea but only if the schools can afford it and only if it doesn't take time/money away from the basics, which many schools typically don't score very well on.

[John_Kunkel]

Not to start another debate, but Spanish isn't taking over. In fact, in a generation or two of assimilation, there will be as many Hispanics using Spanish as their first language as there are Italian-Americans or German-Americans speaking those respective languages NOW. In other words, not that many

Oh? Really? In my part of the world (and yours) Hispanics are in their 8th or 10th generation (depending on how you count) and they still mostly speak Español among themselves.

[Ponch ®]

Not to start another debate, but Spanish isn't taking over. In fact, in a generation or two of assimilation, there will be as many Hispanics using Spanish as their first language as there are Italian-Americans or German-Americans speaking those respective languages NOW. In other words, not that many - so knowing Spanish isn't really going to be that important. Don't be fooled by all the current paranoia and "white anxiety" that's en vogue now. Or maybe I'm just taking my being English/Spanish bilingual for granted.

...

I disagree from my point of view. Try living in Houston, the sanctuary capital of the US. There are Spanish-only Supermarkets popping up.. Come on, give me a break.

Dude, I live in L.A. and I know what you mean. But still...give it a generation or two and you won't see that sort of thing anymore. Although there have always been hispanics in the U.S., the majority of them (legal or illegal, its irrelevant in this context)- the ones that have been "invading" the country as that guy put it a while back - only started coming 30-40 years ago. It takes 2-3 generations for most large immigrant cultures to assimilate, and hispanics are still maybe on the 2nd generation. I know that the Spanish only stores and Telemundo don't make it seem like there's assimilation going on, but there is. even if the parents can't or won't learn the language and culture, the kids will.

[bull]

I don't recall there being any Italian, German, Russian, etc. language accomodations being made for immigrants like there are for those who speak Spanish. Were there? I've never seen or heard of such a thing. Why assimilate if you don't have to?

[Ponch ®]

I don't think it's "white anxiety" or whatever label you decide on if your chances of getting a job as a teacher are drastically decreased if you don't know how to speak Spanish. Hispanics assimilating "in a generation or two" isn't going to help my wife get a job as a teacher in 2011 unless she learns Spanish now, according to the public school teachers she's been talking to.

It's an entirely different situation if you're talking about the present. But if you have a young child now, he/she is better off learning another 2nd language besides spanish.

I don't recall there being any Italian, German, Russian, etc. language accomodations being made for immigrants like there are for those who speak Spanish. Were there? I've never seen or heard of such a thing. Why assimilate if you don't have to?

No, but their communities were just as insular (if not more). Besides that, it was a different era with a different mentality  - back then there weren't many accommodations for anyone who was 'different' - just ask the blacks/irish/jews.

Not to start another debate, but Spanish isn't taking over. In fact, in a generation or two of assimilation, there will be as many Hispanics using Spanish as their first language as there are Italian-Americans or German-Americans speaking those respective languages NOW. In other words, not that many

Oh? Really? In my part of the world (and yours) Hispanics are in their 8th or 10th generation (depending on how you count) and they still mostly speak Español among themselves.

Nah, those are the relatively recent arrivals (80's-now). As far as I know, my family's been here since the 1950's (my grandparents were the first ones to arrive)...so that would make my mom 2nd generation and that would make me 3rd. My brother and I still speak Spanish, but the younger kids in my family - including my 17 year old sister, don't. But you talk to some of those old school Mexican-Americans, and they know maybe a word or two of Spanish, but can't hold a conversation.

I know you guys are pretty skeptical, and it's understandable, but to paraphrase that song...."I believe the children are the future" (even the anchor babies).

[bull]

I don't think it's "white anxiety" or whatever label you decide on if your chances of getting a job as a teacher are drastically decreased if you don't know how to speak Spanish. Hispanics assimilating "in a generation or two" isn't going to help my wife get a job as a teacher in 2011 unless she learns Spanish now, according to the public school teachers she's been talking to.

It's an entirely different situation if you're talking about the present. But if you have a young child now, he/she is better off learning another 2nd language besides spanish.

I don't recall there being any Italian, German, Russian, etc. language accomodations being made for immigrants like there are for those who speak Spanish. Were there? I've never seen or heard of such a thing. Why assimilate if you don't have to?

No, but their communities were just as insular (if not more). Besides that, it was a different era with a different mentality  - back then there weren't many accommodations for anyone who was 'different' - just ask the blacks/irish/jews.

If you're going to bring up the blacks I think Abraham Lincoln prompting the Civil War could be considered an accomodation. Additionally there have been several laws passed since then to accomodate them in equal rights but nothing as far as their language, as it should be. There's a difference between equal rights and special rights. As far as Jews and Irish or whomever, I don't see racism as an equal comparison here unless you consider not accomodating Spanish speakers to be akin to racism. I don't, and I don't think they do either. I think the only racism I see in this debate is one that assumes Hispanics are not smart enough or industrious enough to learn English.

My wife's parents were first gen immigrants in the early 1960s who spoke Spanish and German. They were not accomodated and did not expect to be but they were motivated to learn English out of necessity. There was nothing heartless or cold about it because it was common sense that it would benefit them and everyone around them. Keeping certain groups of people in the dark helps no one.

[Ponch ®]

I don't think it's "white anxiety" or whatever label you decide on if your chances of getting a job as a teacher are drastically decreased if you don't know how to speak Spanish. Hispanics assimilating "in a generation or two" isn't going to help my wife get a job as a teacher in 2011 unless she learns Spanish now, according to the public school teachers she's been talking to.

It's an entirely different situation if you're talking about the present. But if you have a young child now, he/she is better off learning another 2nd language besides spanish.

I don't recall there being any Italian, German, Russian, etc. language accomodations being made for immigrants like there are for those who speak Spanish. Were there? I've never seen or heard of such a thing. Why assimilate if you don't have to?

No, but their communities were just as insular (if not more). Besides that, it was a different era with a different mentality  - back then there weren't many accommodations for anyone who was 'different' - just ask the blacks/irish/jews.

If you're going to bring up the blacks I think Abraham Lincoln prompting the Civil War could be considered an accomodation. Additionally there have been several laws passed since then to accomodate them in equal rights but nothing as far as their language, as it should be. There's a difference between equal rights and special rights. As far as Jews and Irish or whomever, I don't see racism as an equal comparison here unless you consider not accomodating Spanich speakers to be akin to racism. I don't, and I don't think they do either. I think the only racism I see in this debate is one that assumes Hispanics are not smart enough or industrious enough to learn English.

My wife's parents were first gen immigrants in the early 1960s who spoke Spanish and German. They were not accomodated and did not expect to be but they were motivated to learn English out of necessity. There was nothing heartless or cold about it because it was common sense that it would benefit them and everyone around them. Keeping someone in the dark helps no one.

yeah, I wasn't trying to go there with the racism comparison, but I was just making the point that American society in general wasn't all that accommodating or tolerant to begin with back then.

Like I said, I understand why you guys see that there's "spanish' only stores and Telemundo, and so forth and you get freaked out. But just like we often do, you're making generalizations based on superficial evidence and emphasizing the negative over the positive. The way I hear you guys put it, you'd think that every Hispanic or immigrant is some sort of stubborn creature that wants nothing to do with American culture/language and is on a mission to turn our country into some version of theirs. And yes, there are people like that, but they really are a minority - they just happen to concentrate in certain places and hence youre more likely to notice them than the ones who are simply typical Americans, because we just blend in and don't stand out as much. 

[bull]

I just asked my Romanian coworker if he was able to push #3 on the phone for Romanian when he moved here and he said no. I have no idea how he ever learned to speak English. I thought it was impossible but somehow he did it.

[Silver R/T]

English is pretty easy to learn. If you want hard language try Russian or even German. I'm not quite sure what happened when I see people misspell, who lived here their entire life...

[Ponch ®]

English is pretty easy to learn. If you want hard language try Russian or even German. I'm not quite sure what happened when I see people misspell, who lived here their entire life...

great syntax, Shakespeare.  

[Mike DC]

           
The thing about hearing american-living hispanics speaking spanish is that a little of it goes a long way.  A few spanish words being said between people with a hispanic accent is already enough to make an english-only person feel like they're surrounded by full spanish talk.


It's sort of like being multiracial - Barack Obama is "black" when his heritage is actually 50/50.  It doesn't take much African DNA to push you out of the "white" category in the USA.  If you look less than 75% white then you will get categorized as black a lot more often than white.

 

[elacruze]

I disagree from my point of view. Try living in Houston, the sanctuary capital of the US. There are Spanish-only Supermarkets popping up.. Come on, give me a break.
[/quote]

That's just Capitalism doing what it does best.

[bull]

I disagree from my point of view. Try living in Houston, the sanctuary capital of the US. There are Spanish-only Supermarkets popping up.. Come on, give me a break.

That's just Capitalism doing what it does best.

Right, and so is shipping jobs to China, Enron execs robbing pensions and Chrysler making a four door Charger.

[Ponch ®]

[
That's just Capitalism doing what it does best.

Right, and so is shipping jobs to China, Enron execs robbing pensions and Chrysler making a four door Charger.

Got any better alternatives, comrade?

[RallyeMike]

Dude, I live in L.A. and I know what you mean. But still...give it a generation or two and you won't see that sort of thing anymore. Although there have always been hispanics in the U.S., the majority of them (legal or illegal, its irrelevant in this context)- the ones that have been "invading" the country as that guy put it a while back - only started coming 30-40 years ago. It takes 2-3 generations for most large immigrant cultures to assimilate, and hispanics are still maybe on the 2nd generation. I know that the Spanish only stores and Telemundo don't make it seem like there's assimilation going on, but there is. even if the parents can't or won't learn the language and culture, the kids will.

I think this comparison is faulty on many different levels, mostly due to then vs current immigration policy, legal vs illegal status, distance of migration, and our nations newer/differing policies of tolerance and accommodation, amongst others.

Either way you slice it, it makes a lot of sense to be able to communicate with your neighbors so if the opportunity exists, especially if you live the South or West, some classroom exposure to Spanish is a smart thing to do.

[elacruze]

I disagree from my point of view. Try living in Houston, the sanctuary capital of the US. There are Spanish-only Supermarkets popping up.. Come on, give me a break.

That's just Capitalism doing what it does best.

Right, and so is shipping jobs to China, Enron execs robbing pensions and Chrysler making a four door Charger.

EVERYTHING that the U.S. is, and is not, is attributable to Capitalism. If U.S. Corporations operated entirely in the U.S., then the same people who decry moving labor to China would instead be decrying American Sweatshops (a la the industrial revolution here) and/or decrying the high price of the goods produced. Can't have it both ways, no way no how.

Jobs to China is Capitalism. 4 door Chargers is Marketing Capitalism. Executives robbing pensions is at least immoral, at worst criminal. Don't confuse that with Capitalism. Read 'Atlas Shrugged' by Ayn Rand, for some fictional context.