Spanish Immersion school?

[PocketThunder]

I thought i would add this to the tail end of "In America its English, learn it" but maybe i'll start my own thread and let that one run its course, whatever course its on. 


So what do you guys think about spanish immersion school?  My son starts Kindergarten in the fall and 3/4 of the class is enrolling in spanish immersion, a few are in chinese immersion, and we are staying with English.  All the talk is that you have to do immerison school because the childrens minds are so open at a young age and they can soak up the second language easier now than at an older age, say High School, etc...

We want our kids to learn English very well, and then pick up a second language later on in there school career.  But i wonder if i'm going to create more work for my kids by sticking with English vs letting them learn spanish while they are young..?...??

We dont speak any other language but English with family and neighbors and we dont know anyone who does.  Maybe that has to do with living in the fridgid extreme north of flyover land.

Paul

[elacruze]

Here's my 1/2 :

If I had kids that age, and had the opportunity, I would enroll them in ALL the immersion classes. Learning other languages at an early age will enable them to better understand the underlying structures of language, which will help them perfect their English later in their education.

I voluntarily enrolled in German, French, and Spanish in the past. I've spent time immersed in German and Spanish and both have paid off handsomely in certain places. I wish I had known or been guided into doing more with foreign language. My English was much improved as well.

<edit> LOL I forgot, just yesterday I had my first Pashto class. Just in case I vacation in Afghanistan sometime in the future.

Eric

[RallyeMike]

I agree 100% with Elacruze: Depending on where your kids end up or what they are doing knowing other languages can open doors of opportunities and keep them being disadvantaged.
Spanish is destined to become the 2nd official language of the US, so they may as well get a head start.

[hemi68charger]

Every child is different, make sure it doesn't effect their overall academic performance... One can take a foreign language once they are in high school and college as well... You don't want to overwhelm the little guys..... I'm all for learning a second or third language. I have taught myself French and Spanish, but am very rusty now.

Troy

[Old Moparz]

My daughter has been taking Spanish classes in one form or another since pre-k & does well. Being in a school district that has a very large Spanish speaking community has a lot to do with it too. I think it's a great idea to teach kids very young since it's much harder when you are older.

I eagerly took Spanish in 7th grade & ended up hating it, mostly because of the teacher, so I tried German in 8th grade. I liked the teacher & did much better, but the guy had a heart attack late in the school year & then retired. So, since there were no other German teachers avaiable, something to do with them all hiding in Brazil I think, I had to pick another language. For whatever ingenious made up reason, you need 2 years of a foreign language for entry into college, so it was back to Spanish class again since it sounded better than taking freakin' French.

I hated it all over again, as well as both teachers that I had in 9th & 10th grade. As of today, I can proudly count to 20 in Spanish without thinking much about what number comes next. I can also recite a bunch of swear words & tell you you have a small pecker, but that stuff I learned from the Puerto Rican guy I used to work with. 

[Ponch ®]

Not to start another debate, but Spanish isn't taking over. In fact, in a generation or two of assimilation, there will be as many Hispanics using Spanish as their first language as there are Italian-Americans or German-Americans speaking those respective languages NOW. In other words, not that many - so knowing Spanish isn't really going to be that important. Don't be fooled by all the current paranoia and "white anxiety" that's en vogue now. Or maybe I'm just taking my being English/Spanish bilingual for granted.

But like I said in the other other thread, if and when I have kids (hopefully not anytime soon), I'm sending them to Chinese/Mandarin classes. If you want your kids to have an edge, that's what theyre gonna need to learn.

I wouldn't worry about your kids not learning English well if they try to learn another language. They can handle it. I've related the story of my two cousins several times before. Their dad is Serbian and their mom (my aunt) is Mexican-American so their first language at home was English. But before they were old enough for any kind of schooling they were cared for either by my grandma (who only spoke to them in Spanish) or their other grandma (who only spoke to them in whatever language she speaks) while their parents were at work. It was fascinating to see this 3 year old talk to my grandma in Spanish, then talk on the phone with his other grandma in the other language, and then tell me what he just talked about on the phone - in English. So they speak perfect English now, but its kind of a shame that as they got older and the grandmas weren't taking care of them anymore they forgot the other two languages.

[tricky lugnuts]

Agree with the others - there's supposedly no time for learning languages like when you're young.

Of course, that's not to say it can't be done at a later date. I loved the four quarters of Espanol I took in college. It's just when you're young the brain is naturally more curious and forming all those developing neural connections, I suppose.

Of course, if your kid is learning Spanish in kindergarten and doesn't stick with it through elementary school and high school and college, what's the purpose really? Same with Chinese or German or French or any other language.

Aside from becoming fluent, I can see no real advantage to it other than impressive friends over a glass of wine or helping lost tourists with directions, etc. Of course, strong linguistic abilities likely open up a whole new realm of career opportunities.

I'd say go for it and see if the kid likes it. Better to have the knowledge and ability than not! And as boring as English grammar and usage classes have always been for me, I've found that studying a foreign language really causes you to wonder more and learn more about your own language as a side effect.

I agree slightly with Ponch about Mandarin/Chinese as opposed to Spanish classes. But why not do both if your kid wants to? I'm no parent, but I imagine the best thing you could do is give the little dude options, even if you have to steer him into those options a little, and let him decide from there. Hell, get him a piano, a tennis racket and some golf clubs, too!

[PocketThunder]

The immersion program is a 6 year commitment, so if he doesnt like it after a couple years he is stuck there till 6th grade, at that time they put all kids together in English and the immersions kids can pick up a class to continue thier second language. 

Our babysitters younger brother is taking chinese right now and he's in HS, i'll have to ask him how its working out for him.

Paul

[hemi68charger]

Not to start another debate, but Spanish isn't taking over. In fact, in a generation or two of assimilation, there will be as many Hispanics using Spanish as their first language as there are Italian-Americans or German-Americans speaking those respective languages NOW. In other words, not that many - so knowing Spanish isn't really going to be that important. Don't be fooled by all the current paranoia and "white anxiety" that's en vogue now. Or maybe I'm just taking my being English/Spanish bilingual for granted.

...

I disagree from my point of view. Try living in Houston, the sanctuary capital of the US. There are Spanish-only Supermarkets popping up.. Come on, give me a break.

[bull]

Not to start another debate, but Spanish isn't taking over. In fact, in a generation or two of assimilation, there will be as many Hispanics using Spanish as their first language as there are Italian-Americans or German-Americans speaking those respective languages NOW. In other words, not that many - so knowing Spanish isn't really going to be that important. Don't be fooled by all the current paranoia and "white anxiety" that's en vogue now. Or maybe I'm just taking my being English/Spanish bilingual for granted.

I don't think it's "white anxiety" or whatever label you decide on if your chances of getting a job as a teacher are drastically decreased if you don't know how to speak Spanish. Hispanics assimilating "in a generation or two" isn't going to help my wife get a job as a teacher in 2011 unless she learns Spanish now, according to the public school teachers she's been talking to.

As far as the topic, sure. I think kids learning a second or third language is an excellent idea but only if the schools can afford it and only if it doesn't take time/money away from the basics, which many schools typically don't score very well on.

[John_Kunkel]

Not to start another debate, but Spanish isn't taking over. In fact, in a generation or two of assimilation, there will be as many Hispanics using Spanish as their first language as there are Italian-Americans or German-Americans speaking those respective languages NOW. In other words, not that many

Oh? Really? In my part of the world (and yours) Hispanics are in their 8th or 10th generation (depending on how you count) and they still mostly speak Español among themselves.

[Ponch ®]

Not to start another debate, but Spanish isn't taking over. In fact, in a generation or two of assimilation, there will be as many Hispanics using Spanish as their first language as there are Italian-Americans or German-Americans speaking those respective languages NOW. In other words, not that many - so knowing Spanish isn't really going to be that important. Don't be fooled by all the current paranoia and "white anxiety" that's en vogue now. Or maybe I'm just taking my being English/Spanish bilingual for granted.

...

I disagree from my point of view. Try living in Houston, the sanctuary capital of the US. There are Spanish-only Supermarkets popping up.. Come on, give me a break.

Dude, I live in L.A. and I know what you mean. But still...give it a generation or two and you won't see that sort of thing anymore. Although there have always been hispanics in the U.S., the majority of them (legal or illegal, its irrelevant in this context)- the ones that have been "invading" the country as that guy put it a while back - only started coming 30-40 years ago. It takes 2-3 generations for most large immigrant cultures to assimilate, and hispanics are still maybe on the 2nd generation. I know that the Spanish only stores and Telemundo don't make it seem like there's assimilation going on, but there is. even if the parents can't or won't learn the language and culture, the kids will.

[bull]

I don't recall there being any Italian, German, Russian, etc. language accomodations being made for immigrants like there are for those who speak Spanish. Were there? I've never seen or heard of such a thing. Why assimilate if you don't have to?

[Ponch ®]

I don't think it's "white anxiety" or whatever label you decide on if your chances of getting a job as a teacher are drastically decreased if you don't know how to speak Spanish. Hispanics assimilating "in a generation or two" isn't going to help my wife get a job as a teacher in 2011 unless she learns Spanish now, according to the public school teachers she's been talking to.

It's an entirely different situation if you're talking about the present. But if you have a young child now, he/she is better off learning another 2nd language besides spanish.

I don't recall there being any Italian, German, Russian, etc. language accomodations being made for immigrants like there are for those who speak Spanish. Were there? I've never seen or heard of such a thing. Why assimilate if you don't have to?

No, but their communities were just as insular (if not more). Besides that, it was a different era with a different mentality  - back then there weren't many accommodations for anyone who was 'different' - just ask the blacks/irish/jews.

Not to start another debate, but Spanish isn't taking over. In fact, in a generation or two of assimilation, there will be as many Hispanics using Spanish as their first language as there are Italian-Americans or German-Americans speaking those respective languages NOW. In other words, not that many

Oh? Really? In my part of the world (and yours) Hispanics are in their 8th or 10th generation (depending on how you count) and they still mostly speak Español among themselves.

Nah, those are the relatively recent arrivals (80's-now). As far as I know, my family's been here since the 1950's (my grandparents were the first ones to arrive)...so that would make my mom 2nd generation and that would make me 3rd. My brother and I still speak Spanish, but the younger kids in my family - including my 17 year old sister, don't. But you talk to some of those old school Mexican-Americans, and they know maybe a word or two of Spanish, but can't hold a conversation.

I know you guys are pretty skeptical, and it's understandable, but to paraphrase that song...."I believe the children are the future" (even the anchor babies).

[bull]

I don't think it's "white anxiety" or whatever label you decide on if your chances of getting a job as a teacher are drastically decreased if you don't know how to speak Spanish. Hispanics assimilating "in a generation or two" isn't going to help my wife get a job as a teacher in 2011 unless she learns Spanish now, according to the public school teachers she's been talking to.

It's an entirely different situation if you're talking about the present. But if you have a young child now, he/she is better off learning another 2nd language besides spanish.

I don't recall there being any Italian, German, Russian, etc. language accomodations being made for immigrants like there are for those who speak Spanish. Were there? I've never seen or heard of such a thing. Why assimilate if you don't have to?

No, but their communities were just as insular (if not more). Besides that, it was a different era with a different mentality  - back then there weren't many accommodations for anyone who was 'different' - just ask the blacks/irish/jews.

If you're going to bring up the blacks I think Abraham Lincoln prompting the Civil War could be considered an accomodation. Additionally there have been several laws passed since then to accomodate them in equal rights but nothing as far as their language, as it should be. There's a difference between equal rights and special rights. As far as Jews and Irish or whomever, I don't see racism as an equal comparison here unless you consider not accomodating Spanish speakers to be akin to racism. I don't, and I don't think they do either. I think the only racism I see in this debate is one that assumes Hispanics are not smart enough or industrious enough to learn English.

My wife's parents were first gen immigrants in the early 1960s who spoke Spanish and German. They were not accomodated and did not expect to be but they were motivated to learn English out of necessity. There was nothing heartless or cold about it because it was common sense that it would benefit them and everyone around them. Keeping certain groups of people in the dark helps no one.

[Ponch ®]

I don't think it's "white anxiety" or whatever label you decide on if your chances of getting a job as a teacher are drastically decreased if you don't know how to speak Spanish. Hispanics assimilating "in a generation or two" isn't going to help my wife get a job as a teacher in 2011 unless she learns Spanish now, according to the public school teachers she's been talking to.

It's an entirely different situation if you're talking about the present. But if you have a young child now, he/she is better off learning another 2nd language besides spanish.

I don't recall there being any Italian, German, Russian, etc. language accomodations being made for immigrants like there are for those who speak Spanish. Were there? I've never seen or heard of such a thing. Why assimilate if you don't have to?

No, but their communities were just as insular (if not more). Besides that, it was a different era with a different mentality  - back then there weren't many accommodations for anyone who was 'different' - just ask the blacks/irish/jews.

If you're going to bring up the blacks I think Abraham Lincoln prompting the Civil War could be considered an accomodation. Additionally there have been several laws passed since then to accomodate them in equal rights but nothing as far as their language, as it should be. There's a difference between equal rights and special rights. As far as Jews and Irish or whomever, I don't see racism as an equal comparison here unless you consider not accomodating Spanich speakers to be akin to racism. I don't, and I don't think they do either. I think the only racism I see in this debate is one that assumes Hispanics are not smart enough or industrious enough to learn English.

My wife's parents were first gen immigrants in the early 1960s who spoke Spanish and German. They were not accomodated and did not expect to be but they were motivated to learn English out of necessity. There was nothing heartless or cold about it because it was common sense that it would benefit them and everyone around them. Keeping someone in the dark helps no one.

yeah, I wasn't trying to go there with the racism comparison, but I was just making the point that American society in general wasn't all that accommodating or tolerant to begin with back then.

Like I said, I understand why you guys see that there's "spanish' only stores and Telemundo, and so forth and you get freaked out. But just like we often do, you're making generalizations based on superficial evidence and emphasizing the negative over the positive. The way I hear you guys put it, you'd think that every Hispanic or immigrant is some sort of stubborn creature that wants nothing to do with American culture/language and is on a mission to turn our country into some version of theirs. And yes, there are people like that, but they really are a minority - they just happen to concentrate in certain places and hence youre more likely to notice them than the ones who are simply typical Americans, because we just blend in and don't stand out as much. 

[bull]

I just asked my Romanian coworker if he was able to push #3 on the phone for Romanian when he moved here and he said no. I have no idea how he ever learned to speak English. I thought it was impossible but somehow he did it.

[Silver R/T]

English is pretty easy to learn. If you want hard language try Russian or even German. I'm not quite sure what happened when I see people misspell, who lived here their entire life...

[Ponch ®]

English is pretty easy to learn. If you want hard language try Russian or even German. I'm not quite sure what happened when I see people misspell, who lived here their entire life...

great syntax, Shakespeare.  

[Mike DC]

           
The thing about hearing american-living hispanics speaking spanish is that a little of it goes a long way.  A few spanish words being said between people with a hispanic accent is already enough to make an english-only person feel like they're surrounded by full spanish talk.


It's sort of like being multiracial - Barack Obama is "black" when his heritage is actually 50/50.  It doesn't take much African DNA to push you out of the "white" category in the USA.  If you look less than 75% white then you will get categorized as black a lot more often than white.

 

[elacruze]

I disagree from my point of view. Try living in Houston, the sanctuary capital of the US. There are Spanish-only Supermarkets popping up.. Come on, give me a break.
[/quote]

That's just Capitalism doing what it does best.

[bull]

I disagree from my point of view. Try living in Houston, the sanctuary capital of the US. There are Spanish-only Supermarkets popping up.. Come on, give me a break.

That's just Capitalism doing what it does best.

Right, and so is shipping jobs to China, Enron execs robbing pensions and Chrysler making a four door Charger.

[Ponch ®]

[
That's just Capitalism doing what it does best.

Right, and so is shipping jobs to China, Enron execs robbing pensions and Chrysler making a four door Charger.

Got any better alternatives, comrade?

[RallyeMike]

Dude, I live in L.A. and I know what you mean. But still...give it a generation or two and you won't see that sort of thing anymore. Although there have always been hispanics in the U.S., the majority of them (legal or illegal, its irrelevant in this context)- the ones that have been "invading" the country as that guy put it a while back - only started coming 30-40 years ago. It takes 2-3 generations for most large immigrant cultures to assimilate, and hispanics are still maybe on the 2nd generation. I know that the Spanish only stores and Telemundo don't make it seem like there's assimilation going on, but there is. even if the parents can't or won't learn the language and culture, the kids will.

I think this comparison is faulty on many different levels, mostly due to then vs current immigration policy, legal vs illegal status, distance of migration, and our nations newer/differing policies of tolerance and accommodation, amongst others.

Either way you slice it, it makes a lot of sense to be able to communicate with your neighbors so if the opportunity exists, especially if you live the South or West, some classroom exposure to Spanish is a smart thing to do.

[elacruze]

I disagree from my point of view. Try living in Houston, the sanctuary capital of the US. There are Spanish-only Supermarkets popping up.. Come on, give me a break.

That's just Capitalism doing what it does best.

Right, and so is shipping jobs to China, Enron execs robbing pensions and Chrysler making a four door Charger.

EVERYTHING that the U.S. is, and is not, is attributable to Capitalism. If U.S. Corporations operated entirely in the U.S., then the same people who decry moving labor to China would instead be decrying American Sweatshops (a la the industrial revolution here) and/or decrying the high price of the goods produced. Can't have it both ways, no way no how.

Jobs to China is Capitalism. 4 door Chargers is Marketing Capitalism. Executives robbing pensions is at least immoral, at worst criminal. Don't confuse that with Capitalism. Read 'Atlas Shrugged' by Ayn Rand, for some fictional context.

[elacruze]

Dude, I live in L.A. and I know what you mean. But still...give it a generation or two and you won't see that sort of thing anymore. Although there have always been hispanics in the U.S., the majority of them (legal or illegal, its irrelevant in this context)- the ones that have been "invading" the country as that guy put it a while back - only started coming 30-40 years ago. It takes 2-3 generations for most large immigrant cultures to assimilate, and hispanics are still maybe on the 2nd generation. I know that the Spanish only stores and Telemundo don't make it seem like there's assimilation going on, but there is. even if the parents can't or won't learn the language and culture, the kids will.

I think this comparison is faulty on many different levels, mostly due to then vs current immigration policy, legal vs illegal status, distance of migration, and our nations newer/differing policies of tolerance and accommodation, amongst others.

Either way you slice it, it makes a lot of sense to be able to communicate with your neighbors so if the opportunity exists, especially if you live the South or West, some classroom exposure to Spanish is a smart thing to do.

This is something I've noted missing from all the immigration discussion-the fact that Mexicans don't have to cross an ocean to get here. That single fact makes it possible for people of lesser means to arrive, and without documents. Traditionally everybody who immigrated had to have papers to board the boat, and to debark. The romantic notion that stowaways arrived in any quantity is ridiculous. Mexico is the only country from which destitute and desperate people can immigrate. Therefore there can't be a direct comparison between Mexican immigration and historic immigration of other groups.

[bull]

[
That's just Capitalism doing what it does best.

Right, and so is shipping jobs to China, Enron execs robbing pensions and Chrysler making a four door Charger.

Got any better alternatives, comrade?

Yes. Adhering to ethical business standards and buying American. Neither of which seems to be possible with the current suit and tie crowd running the capitalism show.

[bull]

This is something I've noted missing from all the immigration discussion-the fact that Mexicans don't have to cross an ocean to get here. That single fact makes it possible for people of lesser means to arrive, and without documents. Traditionally everybody who immigrated had to have papers to board the boat, and to debark. The romantic notion that stowaways arrived in any quantity is ridiculous. Mexico is the only country from which destitute and desperate people can immigrate. Therefore there can't be a direct comparison between Mexican immigration and historic immigration of other groups.

So... what? All that says to me is we need to make it a lot tougher for people to cross our southern border. And I think that part of the discussion has hardly been missing from the immigration debate. And you don't think anyone else made it here from places other than Mexico that wasn't destitute and desperate? I seriously doubt the Chinese and Irish had gobs of money coming here. And remember not too long ago the mass influx of about 125,000 Cubans on rinky-dink boats? If 600 people at a time can make it into a harbor I bet you'd have a helluva time catching 10% of them if they don't want to get caught.

[elacruze]

This is something I've noted missing from all the immigration discussion-the fact that Mexicans don't have to cross an ocean to get here. That single fact makes it possible for people of lesser means to arrive, and without documents. Traditionally everybody who immigrated had to have papers to board the boat, and to debark. The romantic notion that stowaways arrived in any quantity is ridiculous. Mexico is the only country from which destitute and desperate people can immigrate. Therefore there can't be a direct comparison between Mexican immigration and historic immigration of other groups.

So... what? All that says to me is we need to make it a lot tougher for people to cross our southern border. And I think that part of the discussion has hardly been missing from the immigration debate. And you don't think anyone else made it here from places other than Mexico that wasn't destitute and desperate? I seriously doubt the Chinese and Irish had gobs of money coming here. And remember not too long ago the mass influx of about 125,000 Cubans on rinky-dink boats? If 600 people at a time can make it into a harbor I bet you'd have a helluva time catching 10% of them if they don't want to get caught.

I'm only pointing out that most people on the anti-immigration/anti-spanish language side of the debate inevitably point to previous groups of immigrants for comparison, when it is apples to oranges. Obviously, a lot of immigrants got here on their last dime or borrowed money, and arrived penniless. However, they did somehow have to pay the boat fare before boarding so they had something. And, more importantly, they had some previous notion of expectations before they came-they had something of a plan before they arrived. Not necessary when all you have to do is carry a backpack full of powerbars and water.
Study up a little on the Cuban "Mass Influx". You obviously don't know all the facts-they didn't come in rinky dink boats, and they were mostly white-collar workers and professionals. The Cuban boat lift of the '80's is perceived as 'releasing cuban prisons into the US' because a percentage of them were exacty that-and the Cuban government's requirement for leaving to the US was that the US had to take some bad with the good-I think that's fair considering the drain on Cuba's intellectual reserves. What we did with them when they arrived here, is not Cuba's fault, it is our own.
For what it's worth, very few floaters whether Cuban, Haitian, or whatever, make it anywhere near shore. Coast Guard and satellite finds them long before they get near shore. And at what point is 600 or 125,000 immigrants relevant to Mexican immigration of 20 million?
I want to point out as always, I believe the answer to the problem is fencing or walling the southern border, as has Israel. It's ugly and unfriendly but effective. Also, as I've said before, Business and Legislators do not want the problem fixed *AT ALL* because it is economically undesirable.

Back to foreign language...

[PocketThunder]

Back to foreign language...

I talked to the neighbor kid last night and he said if you can get into a second language early on its probably a good idea.  He is taking Chinese and has had two years of it in High School.  The babysitter, his sister is taking spanish and has done well learning it also.  They both thought English school would be just fine though and the second language could come later.  They, and thier mom, thought it was a good idea also to let our son stay in English school and not have the extra work load of learning two languages at his young age. 

So in conclusion i guess it all comes down to each individuals decion for what fits for their family.   

Paul

Now, back to Immigration! 

My ancestors got off the boat in the 1850's and trucked along the country side stopping in Wisconsin to set up farms.  I wish they would have kept going to Colorado so i could have grown up snowboarding in the rockies...   

[John_Kunkel]

Nah, those are the relatively recent arrivals (80's-now). As far as I know, my family's been here since the 1950's (my grandparents were the first ones to arrive)...so that would make my mom 2nd generation and that would make me 3rd. My brother and I still speak Spanish, but the younger kids in my family - including my 17 year old sister, don't. But you talk to some of those old school Mexican-Americans, and they know maybe a word or two of Spanish, but can't hold a conversation.

I know you guys are pretty skeptical, and it's understandable, but to paraphrase that song...."I believe the children are the future" (even the anchor babies).

I could fill this page with examples that I know of where four generations in the same family speak Spanish at home and in the family business.

I love Mexican food and each and every family-owned restaurant I frequent has the owners speaking English to the customers and Spanish among themselves (granny, kids, grandkids) In some areas around my neck of the woods hearing the English language makes you turn out of disbelief.

Sorry to disagree, but I don't think assimilation is high on the priority list of most Latinos, they're too proud of their culture.

[Ponch ®]

Nah, those are the relatively recent arrivals (80's-now). As far as I know, my family's been here since the 1950's (my grandparents were the first ones to arrive)...so that would make my mom 2nd generation and that would make me 3rd. My brother and I still speak Spanish, but the younger kids in my family - including my 17 year old sister, don't. But you talk to some of those old school Mexican-Americans, and they know maybe a word or two of Spanish, but can't hold a conversation.

I know you guys are pretty skeptical, and it's understandable, but to paraphrase that song...."I believe the children are the future" (even the anchor babies).

I could fill this page with examples that I know of where four generations in the same family speak Spanish at home and in the family business.

I love Mexican food and each and every family-owned restaurant I frequent has the owners speaking English to the customers and Spanish among themselves (granny, kids, grandkids) In some areas around my neck of the woods hearing the English language makes you turn out of disbelief.

Sorry to disagree, but I don't think assimilation is high on the priority list of most Latinos, they're too proud of their culture.

So if they're conducting business in English but communicate in spanish among themselves...what's the issue? Wasn't that the big argument in the "speak english thread"? They speak english (probably better than Silver R/T, at least) and obviously have the acumen to own and conduct a business. I for one think that its entirely possible to assimilate while keeping the important parts of one's culture alive, and if anything, those families that own those restaurants are a prime example of that.

I'm proud of my culture too, and I'm pretty aware of it's traditions and history...but that has absolutely no bearing whatsoever in how I conduct myself otherwise or make me feel less of an American. On this site, for example, no one would guess that I'm Hispanic/Latino/Mexican-American/ American-of-Mexican-heritage/ whatever you wanna call me if weren't for some of the posts were I explicitly allude to it.  

Or what...now we want to ban cultural practices too? Where are we...France?

[loudmouthaussie]

earlier the better for language. they gotta keep it up though or its all wasted. other languages get forgotten quickly when speaking english day to day.

my friend has sicilian parents but they never spoke to him in italian coz they didnt want him to speak english 'with a wog accent' hes into traveling as an adult so really wishes they had!!

[mauve66]

make sure you monitor the kids progress, 6 yr commitment my ass, they can't make your kid stay in that class if you decide its not best later, this is a public school system right??

when i lived in NY i was sent to special progress classes for 7th and 8th grade, 90% of us were A+ students all the time, but one of the requirements of the class was to take a language class.  we had a choice of spanish or french, the french girls were hotter sooooooooo....................

after 2 yrs in the program i was kicked out due to failing the language classes even though i still had STRAIGHT A'S in every other class for those 2 years, this also killed my chances of taking advanced classes in high school as those classes were only in the special progress courses with more language required classes.  as a result of the "regular level" classes i got bored and started cutting school and doing various other things including stealing a car, luckily i moved to MO just before things really got out of hand.

when i got to MO, their 11th grade biology book was the exact same one i used in 8th grade in NY, but i was happier living around more family members so even though i was STILL bored at school i didn't get into too much trouble.................

i also tried to learn german when stationed overseas for 3 years and retained nothing, NOT EVERYONE CAN LEARN ANOTHER LANGUAGE EVEN IF THEY HAVE A LITTLE BRAIN LIKE MINE


if your kids can learn a language then great but monitor your kids progress don't let them get frustrated with school in general due to this program

[John_Kunkel]

So if they're conducting business in English but communicate in spanish among themselves...what's the issue? Wasn't that the big argument in the "speak english thread"? They speak english (probably better than Silver R/T, at least) and obviously have the acumen to own and conduct a business. I for one think that its entirely possible to assimilate while keeping the important parts of one's culture alive, and if anything, those families that own those restaurants are a prime example of that.

I think you miss the point, they're speaking Spanish among themselves in front of the customers. You probably don't see this as an affront, many do. (just like those who yak on a cell phone in public places)

As far as "English only", I'd like to see it made into government policy to eliminate the multi-lingual literature the government is required to print so as to please everybody.

[Ponch ®]

So if they're conducting business in English but communicate in spanish among themselves...what's the issue? Wasn't that the big argument in the "speak english thread"? They speak english (probably better than Silver R/T, at least) and obviously have the acumen to own and conduct a business. I for one think that its entirely possible to assimilate while keeping the important parts of one's culture alive, and if anything, those families that own those restaurants are a prime example of that.

I think you miss the point, they're speaking Spanish among themselves in front of the customers. You probably don't see this as an affront, many do. (just like those who yak on a cell phone in public places)

As far as "English only", I'd like to see it made into government policy to eliminate the multi-lingual literature the government is required to print so as to please everybody.

But at that point you're talking etiquette...and I won't disagree with you on that. But the crux of the issue is whether they can/want to learn english...obviously they do - they just choose not to speak it all the time.

I also agree that the government should stop printing forms in 20 diff languages, but sometimes it's for practical reasons. Like Driver's License exams and the like. So you say "well, if they can't take the test in English, they shouldn't have a license anyway". The problem with that is it would only lead to a ton of unlicensed, uninsured drivers on the road...because the lack of a license usually doesn't stop people from driving. Or Tax forms. But things like Citizenship forms, exams, passport applications, etc...definitely should only be in English.