crazy world

[TK73]

The constitution gave us those rights....it's just been so warped in the past few decades that it no longer states that as a given right. You cannot carry a concealed weapon unless you have a permit to do so.

Which is exactly my point. It gives us unrestricted rights. The states, counties, cities, etc do not have the right to overthrow a Constitutional Amendment, yet they do it all the time with the Second Amendment.
<snip>

The Constitution does not give rights. The Constitution is written to make clear that the rights it illuminates and defends are pre-existent and natural. That is an important distinction.
Unfortunately, those opposed to the Constitution have used this context for so long that even those who support it forget this, and then point to the absence as proof of failure.

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

http://www.cato.org/


[/quote]

Interesting, I was under the impression that the US Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that gun control laws were the jurisdiction of the States.  

[elacruze]

The constitution gave us those rights....it's just been so warped in the past few decades that it no longer states that as a given right. You cannot carry a concealed weapon unless you have a permit to do so.

Which is exactly my point. It gives us unrestricted rights. The states, counties, cities, etc do not have the right to overthrow a Constitutional Amendment, yet they do it all the time with the Second Amendment.
<snip>

The Constitution does not give rights. The Constitution is written to make clear that the rights it illuminates and defends are pre-existent and natural. That is an important distinction.
Unfortunately, those opposed to the Constitution have used this context for so long that even those who support it forget this, and then point to the absence as proof of failure.

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

http://www.cato.org/

Interesting, I was under the impression that the US Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that gun control laws were the jurisdiction of the States.  
[/quote]

They have. The U.S. Judicial branch ceased to function as defenders of the Constitution under the bullying of FDR. He threatened to dilute the Supreme Court by adding members until he got what he wanted. That is the only way the 'New Deal' (Communist Platform) ever became law.

[TK73]

So, every Us citizen has the right to "open carry"?

[elacruze]

So, every Us citizen has the right to "open carry"?

Yes.

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

Necessary.
Bear arms.
Not infringed.

What's not clear?

[lisiecki1]

So, every Us citizen has the right to "open carry"?

Yes.

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

Necessary.
Bear arms.
Not infringed.

What's not clear?

AMEN!

The problem is (in Texas atleast) they don't get you for the actual carrying of the weapon, they'll call it inciting a riot, or creating a hostile environment, blah blah blah, so now you've broken the law, oh and you have a gun?  Now it's 10 times worse.  Nevermind that the gun was what started the charges in the first place.  I hate how broken the system has become 

[elacruze]

Hm.

Maybe we could start a movement. It would have to start in small towns and grow, plant the seed in the right places...

"Open Carry Day". Everybody goes out with their weapon. Civil Disobedience. Police can't arrest everybody...or will not.
Maybe get the local government involved, stick it to the man, yeah!

[jeryst]

[/quote]

Interesting, I was under the impression that the US Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that gun control laws were the jurisdiction of the States.  

[/quote]

That's also my point. If the Supreme Court can do that to one amendment, then they can do it to ANY amendment. So, in those terms, any state could
reinstate slavery, repeal voting rights, etc. We should not let them pick and choose how the amendments are defined, treated, interpreted, whatever.
In my opinion, an amendment is an amendment, and what holds true for one, should hold true for all. I just dont think anyone has ever defended it that
way before. The Constitution is the supreme law of this country, and the Supreme Court justices have no right to defer the liberties provided by it,
to any lesser government.

[TK73]

So, every Us citizen has the right to "open carry"?

Yes.

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

Necessary.
Bear arms.
Not infringed.

What's not clear?

So, convicted felons are allowed to "open carry" according to the 2nd?

[lisiecki1]

Hm.

Maybe we could start a movement. It would have to start in small towns and grow, plant the seed in the right places...

"Open Carry Day". Everybody goes out with their weapon. Civil Disobedience. Police can't arrest everybody...or will not.
Maybe get the local government involved, stick it to the man, yeah!

I would relish the ability to open carry....drop-leg holsters FTW!

[jeryst]

So, every Us citizen has the right to "open carry"?

Yes.

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

Necessary.
Bear arms.
Not infringed.

What's not clear?

So, convicted felons are allowed to "open carry" according to the 2nd?

Okay, first of all, everyone is allowed to "open carry". You need a license, or permit, for concealed carry.

Now, as far as felons go, technically, they are allowed by the Constitution to carry a weapon, because the Constitution makes no disctinctions. It doesn say "People in good standing" or "People who have not committed crimes". It says "The People". No distinctions. It was meant to be that way.

Personally, I'm on the fence. I dont particularly relish the idea of felons owning weapons, but then again, it really doesnt make much difference. If a felon wants to get a gun, he can get one, one way or another. Look at the countries that have banned gun ownership. Bad guys still use guns. It's just the law abiding citizens who are now defenseless. We've been fighting a war on drugs for 20 years, without being able to stop their flow into this country. If guns are banned, the smugglers will just throw a few weapons into the crates with the drugs, and the bad guys will get them anyways. Its only the law abiding citizens who will pay the price.

Then, you have to think about the term "felon". Murders and rapists are felons. So are embezzlers, who have never committed a violent crime. Right now, the way it stands in PA, if you and your wife get into an argument, and she says you hit her, you automatically lose all of your firearms, on just her word. I think that goes way too far.

[tricky lugnuts]

If it wasn't so tragic, it'd almost be comical.

I love how they are so afraid of guns. I carry my bow and arrow (certainly a lethal weapon) a number of places on my way to shoot. You get some weird looks from the city slickers, but . . .

And what about knives?

Hell, walk around with a baseball bat and most times nobody will care.

But ooh, those guns . . .

I like the idea of a national open carry day. I think that could have legs.  

Especially if Chicago's ban on handguns is overturned by the US Supreme Court:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2010/0614/If-Chicago-s-gun-control-law-is-overturned-what-next

[Mike DC]

In the last few decades we have gotten busy creating a 2nd-class citizenship with all the restrictions on convicted felons.  I don't agree with it at all. 

Once someone has done their time in jail, they have paid their debt to society.  It's against the principles of the country to have lifelong "naughty" and "nice" lists about free US citizens.  I agree with few permanent things (like convicted child molesters not working with kids for example) but IMHO taking it all the way to legal firearm ownership is too far.

[TK73]

So, every Us citizen has the right to "open carry"?

Yes.

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

Necessary.
Bear arms.
Not infringed.

What's not clear?

So, convicted felons are allowed to "open carry" according to the 2nd?

Okay, first of all, everyone is allowed to "open carry". You need a license, or permit, for concealed carry.

Why a license to conceal?  Doesn't say anything about that in the 2nd...

[lisiecki1]

So, every Us citizen has the right to "open carry"?

Yes.

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

Necessary.
Bear arms.
Not infringed.

What's not clear?

So, convicted felons are allowed to "open carry" according to the 2nd?

Okay, first of all, everyone is allowed to "open carry". You need a license, or permit, for concealed carry.

Why a license to conceal?  Doesn't say anything about that in the 2nd...

which is why it's crap that you have to get the license.  I believe a large part of it has to do with the removal of certain rights given in the constitution and the states saying "no, you can't do that.....but if you pay us then you can"

[Brock Samson]

 There have been many open carry days herein the bay area,..
here's the latest article on the subject, but by doing a search of "open carry" on the sfgate website there must be at least 50 more on the subject.

  http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/05/19/EDS81DG7O4.DTL

"that's 30"

[chargergirl]

The right to bear arms was given when our forefathers, and if you live here they are yours too, carried long rifles. All sidearms were open carry. Now with the way of the world each individual goes through a safety course; unless they are former military then it's a given in FL. Also Florida law has changed the rules as to convicted felons. If you are NOT convicted of a violent crime you are given back your right to bear arms. All felons are given back their right to vote.