Is this a Charger ?

[hellrider]

Hello. I live in a country called Paraguay in South America and have ran into what the owner says is a Charger. I want to post pictures for you all to examine and tell me if this really is a Charger, and if not, what the heck is it ? As far as I can tell it might be a Dodge Dart ? Anyways...im looking to buy this car in the off chance it is a Charger, but I would need some clarification from you guys. Thanks!

[hellrider]

Heres another one.

[BrianShaughnessy]

Technically yes I suppose 

http://www.valiant.org/brazil.html

[hellrider]

Found this picture, 1973-75 brazilian charger r/t...

[hellrider]

Do you think this project is worth taking on ? On one hand im right next to brazil so parts should be easy-ish to get, on the other hand...I really want an AMERICAN muscle car...thoughts ? opinions ?

[1970Moparmann]

Well...... looks like a Dodge Dart to me.   Check out the fender tag information or get the VIN number.  It could be a big block GTS!   

[hellrider]

Also, notice on top of where the grill would go it isnt flat like the chargers but it rises a bit (i dont know if im explaining myself very well here). It could be a dodge 3700GT, a Coronet, a Charger, a Dart...they all have similar bodies...I will try to get better pictures when I go take a look at the car in a couple days...in the meantime...any other guesses ?

[hellrider]

I will try to get that info to you guys in a couple days tops...if the weather gets better I might be able to go see it today or tomorrow.

[Brock Samson]

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,54215.0.html

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,8167.0.html

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,60606.0.html

 welcome to the site.    
Technically it's a Dart specifically an A Body whereas most of our North American Chargers are B bodies, the Australians also got something closer to an A body but far more unique,.. the tip offs to this being a South American Charger are the extended roof pillars in the back and the squeezed or pinched grill in front.
Personally If i wanted an A body I'd want a 340 Dodge Demon or 340 GTS.
When you get a look at it make sure to get all the numbers from the fender tag, but personally I feel only b-bodies are the true chargers.  Those are cool but kinda' small.

[vancamp]

i dont know there is something kinda cool about those i like em. be kinda cool to have one of all the different variations chrysler made of the charger.

[SFRT]

I doubt if there are any american chargers in Paraguay, so yeah, id get if it I where you. I really like the 'other', foriegn Mopars I think they are super interesting and cool.

[Ghoste]

i dont know there is something kinda cool about those i like em. be kinda cool to have one of all the different variations chrysler made of the charger.

I agree with you.

[hellrider]

Thanks a ton Brock...ill try to get more pictures and a VIN although dont know if the VIN will be accesible...well see...atleast now I know what car im dealing with...

SFRT: I wouldnt be surprised if there were american Chargers here...so far 2 have been found...as well as a shelby gt500, a boss mustang, a couple challengers and a cuda...

Ill keep you guys updated... BTW: Should I join a dart forum and take my post over there or is it okay if I stick around here and have you guys accompany me through my journey ? I understand this is a charger forum...

[Ghoste]

I'd say you are in the right place.  They probably don't know any more about the car than we do.  Speaking for myself I'd really like to know more about them.

[SFRT]

has it got a v-8 or a hemi slant 6?

[hellrider]

I believe its got a 318...dont know for sure...putting another engine in there isnt out of the question in the future though... I am not TOO concerned about restoring it 100% original. I am a 21yr old college student and want another car. My dad likes restoring cars, we have 6 german vw bugs, a caprice which was formerly the presidential car for Paraguay's dictator of 30 years, as well as a Peugeot, all restored 100%...I want me some american muscle...been looking for an american car for years, looks like ill have to settle for a brazilian dodge...im young and this will be a good building experience...

[jeryst]

I want one of those!

Combines two of my favorite cars: Chargers and Darts.

[chargd72]

Those hoods are sweet!!!  Front spoiler built right in.

[hellrider]

Brock: is this a dart or a charger ? I am unsure... in your post you say its an A body dart...but it does have the extended roof pillars of a brazilian charger...unfortunately ive still not been able to get a hold of the VIN...but this question is killing me !

[moparsons]

I think he meant it shares the A body (dart) platform......but yes it looks like a brazillion charger.

[bull]

You must be German Mennonite, no? Where do you live in Parguay? My wife has several relatives in Chaco with the last name Goerzen and Wiens.

[hellrider]

Actually we arent from German descent although we do happen to attend a mennonite church...we live in the capital city which is Asuncion and not in the chaco which is the upper half of the country...I was just in a big mennonite settlement this weekend since I was racing my 58' VW in a touring race through one of the bigger almost mennonite-only cities called Filadelfia in the chaco...I do know an Arnoldo Wiens...maybe your wife knows him ?

[hemi-hampton]

I'd just call it a Brazilian Charger not a American Charger. You never see them here in Michigan, I'd like to have one   LEON.

[hellrider]

I wasnt sure about the cutaway at the front of the hood, but its kinda growing on me...perhaps this way when Im done with college and can afford to get a real charger in here itll be cool to have both an american and brazilian charger side by side...

I think its got potential to be a fun little car...get a tach in there, good exhaust and some performance mods and it should turn out to be a very nice car...

[Ghoste]

Knowing nothing about the Brazillian Chargers I have to ask, is the Road Runner on the side a stock item?  Is there such a thing as a Charger Road Runner?

[hellrider]

I think this has more to do with the fact that the coyote and the roadrunner were a big thing culturally in brasil and alot of people have them as stickers on cars. Alot of muscle cars as well as cars deemed to be fast have roadrunner stickers on them...

I dont THINK there is a charger roadrunner...If there is, then...there is...im just explaining a bit of how big the roadrunner is culturally in brazil

[bull]

Actually we arent from German descent although we do happen to attend a mennonite church...we live in the capital city which is Asuncion and not in the chaco which is the upper half of the country...I was just in a big mennonite settlement this weekend since I was racing my 58' VW in a touring race through one of the bigger almost mennonite-only cities called Filadelfia in the chaco...I do know an Arnoldo Wiens...maybe your wife knows him ?

My wife and her relatives are actually of Dutch decent; sorry for the mistake. She has one uncle named Kornelius Goerzen who lives in Asuncion and used to work at the German embassy there. He and his wife Leni go to the Mennonite church in Asuncion when they are there but also have a home in Filadelfia. If you don't know him my wife says your parents probably do.

[Nacho-RT74]

there is a Brazilian Member around... Ardmuster ( or something like that LOL ) with one of those

[jeryst]

You see so many American cars going to other countries.
What would it take to buy one of the Brazilian Chargers and bring it over here?
Are there equipment laws and safety inspections?
What would one of those Chargers cost in US dollars, if it was nicely restored, or a very nice survivor?
What year are they?
Do all years look the same, or are there variations?

[hellrider]

From what ive gathered they started making the Charger in Brazil in 1970 with the A body due to the size of the B body not being small enough for brazilian streets and highways at the time. Fuel economy was also a concern which is why they went over to a smaller body size. I have no idea how much they would be going for fully restored but in a couple days I should be purchasing this one (the one that is primered in my first post) for $4500 USD.

Currently has a maverick engine in it, but the owner does have the original engine and tranny as well. Needs 2 front shocks, and is missing the interior and seats. All the parts to restore it completely are obtainable in brazil, however.

Bull: My parents do know Kornelius and his wife. She says they are very well known and a very important part of the church here. We have 2 main mennonite church services going on in Asuncion at the same chapel. Kornelius goes to the german-speaking portion of it and my parents go to the spanish-speaking part of it although the members do know each other in both churches.

[jeryst]

Do the headlight grills open like a regular Charger?, or do the lights just shine through?

[hellrider]

They just shine through...

[bull]

Bull: My parents do know Kornelius and his wife. She says they are very well known and a very important part of the church here. We have 2 main mennonite church services going on in Asuncion at the same chapel. Kornelius goes to the german-speaking portion of it and my parents go to the spanish-speaking part of it although the members do know each other in both churches.

Yes, he is pretty well known in the community, especially due to his connections in the political realm. Whenever my wife or any of her familiy travels to Paraguay he is the first one they make contact with to avoid any potential trouble with the local authorities. Not that there is much trouble but it just makes things go much smoother when they are stopped and asked for identification. My wife is curious now to find out what your last name is.

[hellrider]

Last name is Fretes...parents are Luis and Jazmin Fretes...the former presidents wife goes to the mennonite church here and we are good friends with them since my father is also in politics among other things...the world is a tiny place eh ? who wouldve thought...

[bull]

Yup, small world. Good luck with the Charger.

[hellrider]

Update: I get to meet up with him on thursday to check out the car and if everything looks good I should be buying it soon...Ill get new pictures up on thursday so you can all take a look at the car...

[Nacho-RT74]

It could be a dodge 3700GT

thats an Spanish product

[hellrider]

yup...I think weve established its a charger by now...atleast I think so hopefully ill get the vin and everything will match up on thursday and this baby should be MINE by later next week...

[C_stripes]

Here you go, there are many threads about them on A-bodies only, http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=83460&highlight=dart+charger

I would say that it is just as much a charger as a B-body one. It came from the factory badged as a charger and in all actuality, is true to the Charger roots. You know, since the first American Charger was actually a 65 Dart Charger.

[A383Wing]

I wouldn't mind having one of them Brazilian Chargers...Hell, I might even trade our cream 66 for one if it came along.

Were any of them right hand drive?

[hellrider]

None of them were right hand drive...South America has always been left hand drive...I dont mind trading for a real charger Thursday cannot come fast enough...I wanna see this bad boy !!

[Nacho-RT74]

I wouldn't mind having one of them Brazilian Chargers...Hell, I might even trade our cream 66 for one if it came along.

Were any of them right hand drive?

only countries right hand drive are commonwealth countries ( and actually not everyone of them )

[hellrider]

Just 14 Hours or so until I get to see her in person...  Ive been trying to sleep to hopefully just wake up in the morning but all this to no avail... 

[hellrider]

Went to take a look at the car...dont know what to think about it just yet...the car itself looks solid, with some metal work needing to be done...but he says the engine is seized and so is the tranny, although it is the original engine for the car... Ill have to think about it and make a decision, but here are some new pics...

[hellrider]

Btw, like ive mentioned before, whats in the hood now is a 4cyl Ford Maverick engine...which will soon become lawn furniture...hes got the original 318 and 3 speed tranny although both seem to be seized...fortunately brazil, country where these were built is only a 4hr drive away from me so alot of what I will need to get this running again will be accessible with a relatively short drive...

[A383Wing]

Looks like it's been hit in the front...if you got the time and money to restore it...it's your call....but in my opinion, it's too far gone for me to start bringing it back

[hemi-hampton]

Price seems steep for Condition   LEON.

[hellrider]

I talked to my mechanic and I will be heading out there to see the car again taking him with me...Since he will be the one actually working on the car for the most part, I figure I should get an opinion from him, and get an estimate of what its gonna cost me, how well he will realistically be able to do the job, etc... will get back to all of you later tonight and let you know the veredict...

[Nacho-RT74]

as many of guys here have stated, there is something about them that I like. Not really thinking on I'm getting a Charger but yes a Dart. Side by side thinking on they are A bodies I preffer the Brazilian Charger than a USA Dart ( except when we are talking about 70/71 Swingers )

Now... Dunno how much you are paying and how many time you have been searching on for a Charger but... ARE YOU SURE THIS IS THE RIGHT ONE you want ? and I'm not talking about the body conditions because that canm be fixed anytime by anybody who cares about, but yes the complete trim... is there ? is in good conditions ? when restoring a car the main concern comes into my mind is the trim and parts such as lenses, moldings, grille, inserts INTERIOR parts ( not the seat covers, since they can be easily redone )... specially because ANYTHING OIF MOSTLY OF THOSE will be found in USA, so you will need to keep in touch with Mopar brazilian boards. Ardmusnters who is a brazilian member here maybe will be helpfull.

Por cierto, si por casualidad hablas español, Saludos desde Venezuela. Aqui "afortunadamente" fueron ensamblados los Chargers con el Body de USA, y se de alguien que creo que va a vender el suyo pronto, en la ciudad de maracaibo. un 74 Hardtop que esta armado completo, pero no completamente bien restaurado, solo "arreglado". Necesita alguien a quien le importe.

Hay tambien un amigo paraguayo que trabaja en la embajada de Paraguay aqui en Caracas que esta armando un 69 SE

[hellrider]

Let me get the english out of the way first: The complete trim is there, grill, no headlights but it does have the taillights, he does have the seats although I dont know If I want the original seats in there. The benefit I do have is that there are alot of these brazilian charger parts in brazil and are easily obtainable. I am not too concerned about having a perfectly restored car, as I am almost certain it will be painted flat black and have aftermarket seats, and I am still unsure of wether I will have a back seat or make it a 2 seater. The main goal for this car is to have a car tailored to my likes. I have restored many cars and do appreciate them very much but I dont think this is a valuable enough edition of a charger  to have and restore (meaning I wont feel too bad if I dont restore it with 100% originality). When the day comes in which I can afford a real charger, it will definitely be a 69, perhaps even an R/T, but until then I think this is a perfect car for what I am looking to do with it. (meaning, I would feel bad about making a flat black 2 seater out of a 69 R/T, however I could sleep well at night knowing ive got this one, modified, sitting in the garage )

Ahora, habiando dicho eso si hablo espanhol ya que soy nacido en Paraguay Lastimosamente pasando el 70 me dejaron de gustar esteticamente los chargers y el que me gustaria tener seria un 68 o 69. Si sabes de alguno a la venta en venezuela estaria agradecido por la informacion. Si sabes de cualquier otro auto como un Challenger aunque lo vea dificil tambien estaria bien. Me alegra saber que haya algun otro paraguayo alla que le gusten los chargers...si tenemos suerte cuando termine con su trabajo en la embajada puede y que venga por aca el charger

[hellrider]

By the way, got the seller to lower the price to $3,000 USD after some negotiation.

[SFRT]

If that was here for 3K id buy it in a second. sucj an interesting mopar.

[hellrider]

It costs like 6k to ship a car to the states...if I decide not to get it and someone wants it I could arrange shipping and whatnot...I guess you dont see too many brazilian chargers in the states...I doubt theres even one

[hellrider]

err...I mean 3k...not 6k...last time I checked...