Dirty 318 build

[elacruze]

Ok, I have a plan, but need input on some of the specifics.

My new '68 Dodge D200 pickup has a 98,000 mile 318, which runs ok but is well...98,000 miles. I'm doing a dirty build.

I have two goals; First, to spend as little money as possible for the most amount of return. I know everybody says this, but I mean Cheap, Dirty, and by methods 'not recommended' if necessary. In other words, the way most people do it but don't talk about.

Second goal is, keep it totally stealth. Not pretty stealth, not fresh stealth, but dirty truck engine stealth. Fart Cars beware. High-School Camaros beware too.

The build will go like this; No unnecessary block machining. I don't even intend to do more cleaning than letting it run about 10 minutes with a quart of diesel in the oil before disassembly. Of course, the high mileage will likely force me to rebore.

Keith Black pistons, to get me close to zero deck. If I rebore, I'll probably ensure the zero deck too.
302 Casting heads, already procured.
Comp Cams XE256H cam, .447/.455, 256*/268*.
360 Magnum motorhome exhaust manifolds, dual exhaust out the back.

Now the Questions and Options.
Intake-I would very much like to keep the stock 2bbl. intake for appearances sake. Extrude Hone is not an option due to the cost. I figure machining the divider and creating a plenum under the carb will increase effective carb CFM considerably. Thoughts? I also have an Edelbrock S.P.2-P 318 4bbl manifold, suitably corroded and dirty but even so it's not stealthy.

Heads-302 castings for compression. Any porting will be done by me, with no flow bench, in the carport.
What about valve sizes? I know that big valves don't hurt small ports, if the cross section in the bowl and throat are appropriate. 2.02" Intakes, or stick with 1.98"?
Can I get valve guide inserts which are thick enough to bring my stem size to Magnum 8mm?
Exhaust seats-Do I need seat inserts to move up to 1.60" exhaust valves?
Any small-block flow bench experts know these heads?

Shortblock-Are the stock '68 318 con rods ok, with ARP bolts or should I move up to Magnum rods? This engine should be all in by 5800 rpm or so, I'm thinking stock is ok but used rods are cheap.

I am making a few concessions on $ spent, because I expect this engine to last 100,000 miles or more. In this truck, that should be about 50 years.
I'll get the camshaft nitrided and use direct-lube lifters.
I'll have the valve guides rebuilt with bronze liners.
New cam and crank bearings, although unless there is damage I won't have the crank turned or replaced.

This will be a long-term build, probably won't get finished until this winter. I'd like to have it dyno'd and put it in the 'proven combos' section.

[elacruze]

K, $37 including postage for 360 Magnum rods. Done.
I also glommed a set of MP adjustable iron rockers/banana shafts/pushrods on craigslist for $130 postage in.  

More thoughts...

Assuming .050" below deck w/stock pistons, I could use a 360 crank with reground mains for 344 cubic inches. Just add Cometic head gaskets at .140" thick, right?
360 stroke 3.580"-318 stroke 3.310" = .270"/2 = +.135" piston height
-.050 deck + .135" = +.085 deck
With .140" gaskets leaves .055" quench distance.

KB 0 deck pistons are $311 @ Hughes.

Used 360 crank-~$125 = +$186
Stock 318 pistons can be had for ~$90, = +$96.
Regrind mains @$10/ea = $50, +$46
Regrind Rod J's, = $40, + $6.

Cometic head gaskets, ~$100. Looks like I get  26 cubic inches and new journals for $100 using the 360 crank. Bargain, I think. And, I may find a 360 crank for free out there. Consideration given to machining valve clearance in pockets as well.

[chargd72]

 

Very interested in this feedback!

[Highbanked Hauler]

 I didn't know you could put a 360 crank in a 318  :shruggy:

[elacruze]

I didn't know you could put a 360 crank in a 318  :shruggy:

360 Main journals are larger so will have to be ground to 318 diameter. Should be just like putting a 440 crank in a 400 block. Everything I've read says otherwise they're the same.
I can't physically touch the parts right now, so if somebody knows differently, let me know!

[elacruze]

Any small-block gurus have an opinion on dampeners?

I have no intention of balancing this motor. Installing a Fluidamper goes against the grain of doing this on the el-cheapo, and I believe in 'you get what you pay for' so the $89 Chinese fluid damper copy is a grim second choice.
Stick with a stock 318 damper? 360 damper? Anybody broke enough small-block cranks under 6500 rpm to know if it even matters?
Of course, if it all goes to smithereens, I got what I paid for...

[elacruze]

Scored my -302 castings today, for $100 and $40 in gas. 

[chargd72]

Bad @$$!!  Not a bad price at all.  Scored mine for 70$ but I don't think the guy thought they were anything but typical a set of sb mopar heads.  Mine are in the shop as we speak getting larger valves.  Should have them back next week 

Are you sticking with the original plan?

[elacruze]

Yep, still on track. My body man has 2 360 cranks around, says I can have one FREE which is what I was hoping for. As soon as the heads are cleaned and magnafluxed, I'll order the valves. Once the heads are completed, I'll pull one off the motor to see where the pistons are, then make a decision how to proceed based on piston deck height and cylinder wear. Obviously, any ridging at the top of the hole means I have to keep the stock stroke or bore the block.
I'll pull a leakdown first, just for some baseline information-for all I know, this motor was rebuilt in the past though I have no reason to believe that's so.

[chargd72]

I hope the 360 crank works out.  Haven't seen anything proving this can be done yet.  Good project.

When you pull your other heads off, look at you pistons and let me know if they have valve reliefs or not.  I have reliefs on mine and don't know if those are stock or not. 

[Brass]

Great thread.  I like the cut of your jib. 

[elacruze]

My exhaust valve seats are in, my intakes are opened and near-seated (incase I slip with the grinder while doing the ports) I bought 2.02"/1.60" valves on eBay for about $100. Had the 2.02" intakes cut back to 1.88" diameter so I can get a better backcut venturi angle, and the -302 head chambers would be very tight on the 2.02's without a bunch of material removed, which goes against the point of having the -302's. With 1.88" diameter I can get a little clearance around the intake without more than smoothing the area. With these high-swirl heads most of the flow is on the opposite side anyway, so in the large picture there should be a marked improvement.
I still haven't measured up the 360 crank, or worked out any balancing issues-I'm using stock (hopefully) 318 pistons with 360 rods, but have to use the truck flywheel which doesn't match the 360 balance. I'm not sure that for this engine it really matters anyway.
We have another similar 318 in the shop available, I may build that one and do a swap although for some reason I'm reluctant to take the original engine out-maybe I'll swap and build the original and re-swap. In any case, I'm going to take the 2-bbl manifold from the other motor and remove the divider between the venturis to see what happens. That should have the effect of doubling carburetor capacity, which with the truck carb should be equivalent to ~600CFM 4-bbl.
Or it may just ruin the manifold. We'll see...the joys of discovery.

[chargd72]

Dang, $100 bucks for both sets of valves?  Are the single grooved?  Aluminum?  I just payed $200 for a set of 1.88/1.60 myself.

Looking forward to see this truck in action.

[elacruze]

ebay item 390241065317.

[jpsycoboy5]

Hy I have a 4 barrel intake for a 318 no carb it's just taking up space if your around Michigan I'd be happy to give it to you

[elacruze]

Hy I have a 4 barrel intake for a 318 no carb it's just taking up space if your around Michigan I'd be happy to give it to you

Never one to pass up options,

I'll be in Michigan some time this fall. If you like, you can send it to me and I'll cover the shipping and a little for beer. PM me for address.

[elacruze]

Woo Hoo! 

Just finished 6 hours hacking my heads on the tailgate of my pickup.

I got one of these-
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380268359615&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_1087wt_911

and these-
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250624168218&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT#ht_1640wt_911

Since they're tools, I'm trying not to include them in the cost of my build. I'll use them again. I was surprised at the quality of these carbide cutters, usually the cheap ones are crap. I only used 2 to do both heads, and the larger one that did most of the work is noticeably softer but still cutting. Amazing for working on cast iron...$220 in the door to blend in my 1.88" intakes and 1.60" exhausts. Cutting them down from 2.02" was the right thing to do in these heads-the short side of the valve is pretty completely shrouded until about .060" lift. It was pretty easy to blend them in, the short side had a lot more material to work with than I thought. I was worried that it would be too sharp for good flow, but it looks good for a hack job. I'll post some photos later tonight.

[tan top]

intresting plan /build     

[elacruze]

It's harder than I thought to get good pictures of holes...the camera makes ripples look like trenches.
In the bowls I concentrated on keeping the short side radius as round and long as possible. I kept in mind the directional flow, and kept some venturi below the valve entry. On the port entries, I only smoothed out the casting and removed a tiny bit in the top corners where material was thicker for the valve cover bolt bosses. This improves the cross-section a little going into the pushrod pinch. I took a little material out of the corners right in the pinch, but nothing more than smoothing on the walls. I'll match the entries to the manifold before the heads are assembled.

[elacruze]

.

[chargd72]

Great job!  Ballsy using those carbide bits too.  I'm a wuss and stuck to grinding stones.   

[elacruze]

Great job!  Ballsy using those carbide bits too.  I'm a wuss and stuck to grinding stones.   

Yeah, it was a calculated move...I'd like to have finished with stones but I don't have a flow bench so that would have been for appearances sake anyway. I took about 6 hours as it was, with stones I'd have turned to stone before finishing, or ended up just polishing over the stuff I really wanted to remove. It's not my first time in the bowls, it's just the first time in a long time.

[XXSpiralXX]

  If you're going to use a 360 crank you will have to use the 360 balancer and flywheel/torque converter as it was balanced differently from the 340/318. The 360 TC should have counterweights on it if I remember correctly. Then again, it's been awhile.....

[elacruze]

  If you're going to use a 360 crank you will have to use the 360 balancer and flywheel/torque converter as it was balanced differently from the 340/318. The 360 TC should have counterweights on it if I remember correctly. Then again, it's been awhile.....

Balancer no problem, but it's going in a truck, and the truck flywheel is specific. I'm going to have to do some research, or see if the local balancer guy can match the truck wheel to a 360 flywheel...which I don't think I have for comparison. 

[XXSpiralXX]

  Would you be able to get a 360 flywheel for a truck application? My 87 ram 250 has a stock 360 4spd in it. Should already be balanced appropriately.?

[nvrbdn]

question guys. im not a small block guy so i dont know. will a 360 intake work on a 318 motor? a friend asked me cuz he can get it free for his truck.

[elacruze]

question guys. im not a small block guy so i dont know. will a 360 intake work on a 318 motor? a friend asked me cuz he can get it free for his truck.

The short answer is that a pre-magnum 360/340 manifold will bolt on to a 318 but you won't like it. The 318 ports are much smaller and spoil the manifold air velocity.

[elacruze]

  Would you be able to get a 360 flywheel for a truck application? My 87 ram 250 has a stock 360 4spd in it. Should already be balanced appropriately.?

Don't know. my '68 uses a Hemi style direct drive starter. I have to find out exactly what the differences are.

[Challenger340]

Just a thought, not trying to ruin your project, but I'm just curious as to the Cost/Benfit factor on this 318 build, with a 360 Crank in the 318,
as opposed,
to simply installing the 302 Heads on a "re-Ringed" low pop 360 ?
Re-ring kits are cheap, the only extrenuous Monies would be in re-Balancing your "0" 318 flywheel, to "external" to work on the 360 ?
that,
or simply obtaining a good running 360 shortblock candidate(save the re-ring), then applying the 302 Heads, same as the above ?


Waaay back in the Day, we're talking BEFORE there was Forged Pistons available for 360's, we stuck re-worked 340 Forged Slugs in 360's.
It involved Milling the 340 Tops, re-flycutting already "thin" tops,
AND,
Re-contouring the Skirts on the 340 Slugs to clear the 360 Crank Counterweights ?

Just pointing out,be careful to check the 318 Pistons for interference with the 360 Crank Counterweight ?
if you proceed with this idea as I suspect you will encounter the same problem ?

Bob out.

[elacruze]

Thanks Bob,

This is exactly the sort of information I've been hoping for from the beginning, to keep this 'simple' project from turning into an expensive Frankenstein's monster.

I'll likely just keep it at 318, then. It is only a pickup, after all.