once again california wants to tell other states what to do

[moparstuart]

 
Majorities saying that minorities are making too big a deal about profiling - it rings a bit hollow IMHO.


Being profiled once or twice is not an equivalent experience IMHO. 

 

[RECHRGD]

 
Majorities saying that minorities are making too big a deal about profiling - it rings a bit hollow IMHO.


Being profiled once or twice is not an equivalent experience IMHO.  

 

You will never make everybody happy about profilling, but, something has to start being done.  Don't you agree?  How do you propose to aggressively stop the flood of illegals without looking at them?

[bull]

 
Majorities saying that minorities are making too big a deal about profiling - it rings a bit hollow IMHO.


Being profiled once or twice is not an equivalent experience IMHO. 

 

   
Majorities saying that minorities are making too big a deal about profiling - it rings a bit hollow IMHO.

Being profiled once or twice is not an equivalent experience IMHO. 

Again, political correction is not law. How these people FEEL is not an issue. When and if the problem is ever contained it would stop being an issue to the PC Nazis too. The fact that immigration laws were ignored for so long is what created the problem, not the laws themselves. If a person is in this country illegally they have no cause to cry about anything. They haven't paid their dues; they've earned the right to nothing and nothing is what they should get other than a free ride back home.

[Nacho-RT74]

I understand you Nacho.  The problem is we have a big problem with Mexicans flooding the border states doing crimes.  We just want to get the bad ones out and the good ones need help us.  It is NOT about racism.

I'm agree with the problem you have, and we have had same problems with ilegals Colombians, Ecuatorians in Venezuela. Spain is on same deal with Africans and East Europeans inmigrants, but then:

This is just another instance where political correction becomes the addendum to the actual laws. There is no law against an officer using his or her own judgement to determine who should be questioned. That is a politically correct "law" that the PC Nazis think is in the Constitution. They would like to think a dark skinned, dark haired 25-year-old guy with a turbin is no more a suspect for terrorism than a 90-year-old Quaker woman. Political Correction is retarded.

Thats what I mean...

and for that reason, will become on a racism deal, wanted, expected, wished, planned... or not

IS HARD try to get a balance here and I know that, but you need to build it with education, not just with a law

I bet you most of criminals on USA jails are not ilegals or Latinamericans... mostly will be for sure, USA citizens. Logically the population proportions are diff too, but still.

[RECHRGD]

Nacho----I've been trying to find an article to link you to for some real percentages of illegals in our criminal justice system.  But,  I cannot find any that are without bias to one side or the other, so I won't post them here to just cause further debate.  In general it's somewhere in the 20% to 35% range.

[nh_mopar_fan]

It's sad, but most of the time the ones that start crying racism ARE the racist.  I could cry about the things I can't get because I'm white but I don't.   If this was in the northern states with Canada, we would feel the same.  I think part of becoming a U.S. Citizen is a pledge to protect our borders, is it not?.   I feel we have catered to Mexico long enough. "FOR ENGLISH PRESS 1".....  This is the land of the free and I feel that all are welcome here as long as they come the legal way. 

You're right. The racists are the people who want to excuse these lawbreakers because of the color of their skin.

[Ponch ®]

It has nothing to do with racism it just happens that your race is invading our country.

sorry, I said I was getting out of this thread but that one is a keeper!

[Mike DC]

Whats your grand solution then?  Just give them all a pass because were too sensitive to do anything about it?  The question has to be asked at some point so how do you tell the difference between one or the other without asking?  Or should we just not ask and send them all legal or not?  That seems to be the only solution if we now cannot even ask because we don't want people to be butt hurt...

There is a real problem here which needs a real solution.  The only solution here may not be politically correct but real solutions hardly ever are.

Again, political correction is not law. How these people FEEL is not an issue. When and if the problem is ever contained it would stop being an issue to the PC Nazis too. The fact that immigration laws were ignored for so long is what created the problem, not the laws themselves. If a person is in this country illegally they have no cause to cry about anything. They haven't paid their dues; they've earned the right to nothing and nothing is what they should get other than a free ride back home.

Being asked to show your ID during a traffic stop or a security check is not profiling.  

Pulling someone over or out of a crowd JUST BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE is profiling.



There is a crucial difference here.  Please don't group everyone who takes any issue with the law into one lump "pro-illegals" category.  

[ZSmithersCharges]

It has nothing to do with racism it just happens that your race is invading our country.

sorry, I said I was getting out of this thread but that one is a keeper!

I don't know what your getting at here so I'll break it down for you if your calling me a racist.

Race(via dictionary.com):noun
1.a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.
2.a population so related.
3.Anthropology.
a.any of the traditional divisions of humankind, the commonest being the Caucasian, Mongoloid, and Negro, characterized by supposedly distinctive and universal physical characteristics: no longer in technical use.
b.an arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, esp. formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.
c.a human population partially isolated reproductively from other populations, whose members share a greater degree of physical and genetic similarity with one another than with other humans.
4.a group of tribes or peoples forming an ethnic stock: the Slavic race.
5.any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.: the Dutch race.
6.the human race or family; humankind: Nuclear weapons pose a threat to the race.
7.Zoology. a variety; subspecies.

Racism(same source):
noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

To Ponch:

Race being a person or group of persons from the same ethnic background.  And RACISM being the hatred of said race just to simplify it for you because I do not take it lightly when morons try to call me a racist in a petty way to win their debate.  I am not racist because I said your race was invading our country.  That is a fact, and there is no hatred in that fact.  Did I once express hatred towards the Hispanic population?  No I did not so take your childish games elsewhere.  You're fucking pathetic.


If that's not what you were going at then sorry for getting pissy but I love everyone on this planet no matter the color.  I have a problem with people who break our nations laws and hurt others and our nation as a whole.

[ZSmithersCharges]

Whats your grand solution then?  Just give them all a pass because were too sensitive to do anything about it?  The question has to be asked at some point so how do you tell the difference between one or the other without asking?  Or should we just not ask and send them all legal or not?  That seems to be the only solution if we now cannot even ask because we don't want people to be butt hurt...

There is a real problem here which needs a real solution.  The only solution here may not be politically correct but real solutions hardly ever are.

Again, political correction is not law. How these people FEEL is not an issue. When and if the problem is ever contained it would stop being an issue to the PC Nazis too. The fact that immigration laws were ignored for so long is what created the problem, not the laws themselves. If a person is in this country illegally they have no cause to cry about anything. They haven't paid their dues; they've earned the right to nothing and nothing is what they should get other than a free ride back home.

Being asked to show your ID during a traffic stop or a security check is not profiling.  

Pulling someone over or out of a crowd JUST BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE is profiling.

There is a crucial difference here.  Please don't group everyone who takes any issue with the law into one lump "pro-illegals" category.  

Right, but we weren't asking that.  Ponch's problem is that he will get pulled over(for doing something illegal) and feel he is wronged by being asked for his ID even though anyone in that circumstance white black or hispanic would have to.

[Ponch ®]

It has nothing to do with racism it just happens that your race is invading our country.

sorry, I said I was getting out of this thread but that one is a keeper!

I don't know what your getting at here so I'll break it down for you if your calling me a racist.

Race(via dictionary.com):noun
1.a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.
2.a population so related.
3.Anthropology.
a.any of the traditional divisions of humankind, the commonest being the Caucasian, Mongoloid, and Negro, characterized by supposedly distinctive and universal physical characteristics: no longer in technical use.
b.an arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, esp. formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.
c.a human population partially isolated reproductively from other populations, whose members share a greater degree of physical and genetic similarity with one another than with other humans.
4.a group of tribes or peoples forming an ethnic stock: the Slavic race.
5.any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.: the Dutch race.
6.the human race or family; humankind: Nuclear weapons pose a threat to the race.
7.Zoology. a variety; subspecies.

Racism(same source):
noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

To Ponch:

Race being a person or group of persons from the same ethnic background.  And RACISM being the hatred of said race just to simplify it for you because I do not take it lightly when morons try to call me a racist in a petty way to win their debate.  I am not racist because I said your race was invading our country.  That is a fact, and there is no hatred in that fact.  Did I once express hatred towards the Hispanic population?  No I did not so take your childish games elsewhere.  You're fucking pathetic.


If that's not what you were going at then sorry for getting pissy but I love everyone on this planet no matter the color.  I have a problem with people who break our nations laws and hurt others and our nation as a whole.

who's being uber sensitive now?

[Nacho-RT74]

Nacho----I've been trying to find an article to link you to for some real percentages of illegals in our criminal justice system.  But,  I cannot find any that are without bias to one side or the other, so I won't post them here to just cause further debate.  In general it's somewhere in the 20% to 35% range.

yeah, I know, I'm aware of that. Somehow maybe their situation in some cases push to make some crimes. Not in all cases of course.

It has nothing to do with racism it just happens that your race is invading our country.

well... USA made the same when took Mexican lands on a war without a reason, just for expansion back in mids XIX century, so you can't demand the rest of ppl for the same was made by your country too . Specially in this case, being same countries on the deal, but being backwards just not in a war LOL, just because economical reasons to grow up individually.

Of course nowdays is not right to make that and I'm not saying is right, but this "demand" needs some moral as a back up to support it. Use another reason please, but not that excuse. We are not talking about a mid ages invasion when empires and invasions were the way to live, I'm  talking about modern invasion when the laws and an international order were already there and was violated anyway

It's sad, but most of the time the ones that start crying racism ARE the racist.

yes, sad but true in some cases, and thats when ghetos comes to life and begins a "revenge" circle. They work more on fight against... somebody, than become on part of the society

You're right. The racists are the people who want to excuse these lawbreakers because of the color of their skin.

nah, I don't think is EXACTLY on that way, is because somekind of instinctive revenge and againts the stablished society because they were marginated somewhen in the past, then become on ghetos and blah blah blah

----

I think at the end is on each own to work for a common benefit. Every history use to have two sides of one reality, and both are right somehow.

Guys... Please don't become USA on a world victim of ilegal inmigration, terrorism, criminals. All the countries are on same deal EVEN BEFORE YOU, just that USA has lot of good marketing process of its own problems and history and thats why you get your "American Proud" what is not bad at all... untill you begin to piss off the rest of the world just because that.

Spain has got terrorism since 40 years ago, they get Latinamerican, African and Easter European ilegals too

Colombia has got terrorism since 50 years ago and the drugs bussines and traffic there begins in USA and European consumers. Stop the consumers in your country and will note how this problem will dissapear slowly sooner or later. ( you see how a local problem in your contry can for sure become in another problem to another country ? you are not the only victims )

Ireland and North Ireland was on a "quite war" by maybe 30 years for religion problems even being same race...

Etc, etc, etc... I think we can talk about dozens of similar problems in all the world

Please, stop becoming USA on the only suffering country in the world.

As you know, I have been there and I was able to feel the reasons why you are proud of your country and I think I could be even "infected" LOL ( was nice to feel that ). You have FOR SURE reasons to be proud of yourself, but don't forgett you didn't born from nowhere. You were built by inmigrants. Now you are on top of the world, please help to the rest of the world to grow up on the same way the rest of the world nationalities grew up in you and made you GREAT.

Is not fair to be a tourist to be allmost denigrated on inmigration offices at airports like you are nobody. Thats doesn't happens when some USA citizen visit some other country. Think on that!

Every human in the world has the same rights to be anywhere in the world. Of course sounds uthopic, but we need to work on that to get a better world

wasn't USA againts the Berlin wall ? aren't you now building one wall on Mexican border ? and actually you say nothing about Israel wall, so... shouldn't be the same criterial everywhere ? is not logical. Law and rights are the same for everyone, not good for some and bad for the rest

[jeryst]

I think that every one of us who feel that illegal immigration from Mexico is a problem,
should counteract the a-holes in California by taking their vacation in Arizona this year.

I've already changed my vacation plans, and that's what I am going to do.

At least one a-hole from PA will cancel out one a-hole from CA.

[RD]

Enforcement of Immigration Law

·          Prohibits law enforcement officials and law enforcement agencies of this state or counties, municipalities and political subdivisions from restricting or limiting the enforcement of the federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal law.

·          Requires officials and agencies to reasonably attempt to determine the immigration status of a person involved in a lawful contact where reasonable suspicion exists regarding the immigration status of the person, except if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation.

·          Stipulates that if the person is arrested, the person's immigration status must be determined before the person is released and must be verified with the federal government.

·          Stipulates that a law enforcement official or agency cannot solely consider race, color or national origin when implementing these provisions, except as permitted by the U.S. or Arizona Constitution.

purdy much sums it up!!!! SB 1070

[ZSmithersCharges]

It has nothing to do with racism it just happens that your race is invading our country.

sorry, I said I was getting out of this thread but that one is a keeper!

I don't know what your getting at here so I'll break it down for you if your calling me a racist.

Race(via dictionary.com):noun
1.a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.
2.a population so related.
3.Anthropology.
a.any of the traditional divisions of humankind, the commonest being the Caucasian, Mongoloid, and Negro, characterized by supposedly distinctive and universal physical characteristics: no longer in technical use.
b.an arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, esp. formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.
c.a human population partially isolated reproductively from other populations, whose members share a greater degree of physical and genetic similarity with one another than with other humans.
4.a group of tribes or peoples forming an ethnic stock: the Slavic race.
5.any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.: the Dutch race.
6.the human race or family; humankind: Nuclear weapons pose a threat to the race.
7.Zoology. a variety; subspecies.

Racism(same source):
noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

To Ponch:

Race being a person or group of persons from the same ethnic background.  And RACISM being the hatred of said race just to simplify it for you because I do not take it lightly when morons try to call me a racist in a petty way to win their debate.  I am not racist because I said your race was invading our country.  That is a fact, and there is no hatred in that fact.  Did I once express hatred towards the Hispanic population?  No I did not so take your childish games elsewhere.  You're fucking pathetic.


If that's not what you were going at then sorry for getting pissy but I love everyone on this planet no matter the color.  I have a problem with people who break our nations laws and hurt others and our nation as a whole.

who's being uber sensitive now?

Whose trying to  ?  Your like a child, you cant win the debate like a grown up so your trying to pick me apart.  Grow up.  First you called me a racist, I supplied you with the definition of racism and asked you how I applied to that.  You couldn't answer so now your calling me too sensitive in an effort to sweep it under the rug.  Cute, go play in traffic.

[skip68]

Nacho, your English sucks...  lol ..   But I can still understand you anyway lol.  Well said my friend...

[Nacho-RT74]

yeah Jamey, sounds good there, but from paper to the life! do you think will work in that way? will see. I hope will be fine.

just history will tell

aren't Human rights a nice poetry too ? now, check the real life

[Ponch ®]

It has nothing to do with racism it just happens that your race is invading our country.

sorry, I said I was getting out of this thread but that one is a keeper!

I don't know what your getting at here so I'll break it down for you if your calling me a racist.

Race(via dictionary.com):noun
1.a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.
2.a population so related.
3.Anthropology.
a.any of the traditional divisions of humankind, the commonest being the Caucasian, Mongoloid, and Negro, characterized by supposedly distinctive and universal physical characteristics: no longer in technical use.
b.an arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, esp. formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.
c.a human population partially isolated reproductively from other populations, whose members share a greater degree of physical and genetic similarity with one another than with other humans.
4.a group of tribes or peoples forming an ethnic stock: the Slavic race.
5.any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.: the Dutch race.
6.the human race or family; humankind: Nuclear weapons pose a threat to the race.
7.Zoology. a variety; subspecies.

Racism(same source):
noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

To Ponch:

Race being a person or group of persons from the same ethnic background.  And RACISM being the hatred of said race just to simplify it for you because I do not take it lightly when morons try to call me a racist in a petty way to win their debate.  I am not racist because I said your race was invading our country.  That is a fact, and there is no hatred in that fact.  Did I once express hatred towards the Hispanic population?  No I did not so take your childish games elsewhere.  You're fucking pathetic.


If that's not what you were going at then sorry for getting pissy but I love everyone on this planet no matter the color.  I have a problem with people who break our nations laws and hurt others and our nation as a whole.

who's being uber sensitive now?

Whose trying to  ?

Not me. I do have to apologize if you feel that in my haste I implied that you are a racist (even though I never said so in any way, shape or form....just like you never said anything about hating Hispanics). I guess since you fit the profile of a racist (angry white guy), you feel that I erroneously profiled you as one. However, I'm sure that you will take it in stride, since as a non-racist you will agree with me that racism is a problem that needs to be eliminated. On the occasion that you are mistaken for a racist, just suck it up for the "greater good", since all you have to do is prove that you are not a racist (and dictionary definitions suffice).

[Nacho-RT74]

Nacho, your English sucks...  lol ..

yes ? well I guess, sorry   , but when I'm out of the Cars topic, becomes some harder to talk about LOL

[Ponch ®]

Nacho, your English sucks...  lol ..

yes ? well I guess, sorry, but when I'm out of the Cars topic, becomes on some harder to talk about LOL

entonces dilo en español...al que no le guste que se vaya a la chingada.

[Nacho-RT74]

jajajaja, lo pense, pero entonces nadie lo entenderia y no tendria sentido decirlo jajaja...

no se que tan de acuerdo estes conmigo en lo que he dicho, pero creo que he expuesto algunos puntos muy validos a tomar en cuenta

[ZSmithersCharges]

Nacho, your English sucks...  lol ..

yes ? well I guess, sorry, but when I'm out of the Cars topic, becomes on some harder to talk about LOL

I understood what you were saying as well and I agree with a lot of it. Thank you for providing your sound opinion though and not just trying to play the name game like another member here.

[Ponch ®]

jajajaja, lo pense, pero entonces nadie lo entenderia y no tendria sentido decirlo jajaja...

no se que tan de acuerdo estes conmigo en lo que he dicho, pero creo que he expuesto algunos puntos muy validos a tomar en cuenta

claro dices muchos puntos muy validos...nada mas que estos chamos estan tan aperrados que no agarran la onda.

[Ponch ®]

Nacho, your English sucks...  lol ..

yes ? well I guess, sorry, but when I'm out of the Cars topic, becomes on some harder to talk about LOL

I understood what you were saying as well and I agree with a lot of it. Thank you for providing your sound opinion though and not just trying to play the name game like another member here.

"another member here". Who's playing childish games now?

First you called me a racist, I supplied you with the definition of racism and asked you how I applied to that.  

I did?  

[ZSmithersCharges]

Not me. I do have to apologize if you feel that in my haste I implied that you are a racist (even though I never said so in any way, shape or form....just like you never said anything about hating Hispanics). I guess since you fit the profile of a racist (angry white guy), you feel that I erroneously profiled you as one. However, I'm sure that you will take it in stride, since as a non-racist you will agree with me that racism is a problem that needs to be eliminated. On the occasion that you are mistaken for a racist, just suck it up for the "greater good", since all you have to do is prove that you are not a racist (and dictionary definitions suffice).

Racism is a problem I will agree with you there.  I see what you did there and that's fine.  Call me a racist all you want if it helps our country.  Sadly that is not going to solve illegal immigration so what do you suggest we do?