once again california wants to tell other states what to do

[TK73]

Been kinda paying attention to the whole issue... a bit.

Wasn't one of the arguments I heard concerning violation of the 14th amendment?


        AMENDMENT XIV

Passed by Congress June 13, 1866. Ratified July 9, 1868.

Note: Article I, section 2, of the Constitution was modified by section 2 of the 14th amendment.

Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Passed by Congress June 13, 1866. Ratified July 9, 1868.

How does this law violate the Amendment?

[TK73]

Just for the record:

I fully support AZ enacting the law.  Yes, I did read the pertinent parts of the law.

  -  TK: Gun toting Liberal

[Ponch ®]

i would gladly be questioned by any policeman regarding my citizenship in order to ensure that those are illegal are removed expeditiously.  our fourth amendment rights are shit on by the government all the time.. illegal search and seizures, illegal wire tapping by homeland security agencies, etc. etc.  Yet we allow our government to infringe upon those "unalienable" rights every day.  Go ahead and put terrorism, jihad, and bomb in one sentence (oops just did) and see if you dont come up on a NSA or CIA or FBI spreadsheet somewhere.

its time to quit curtailing the rights and privileges of the whole for a minority that doesnt even have legality.  Its time to quit feeling like we are offending those who are illegal and realize the citizens of this country are OFFENDED.

I'm sure you would gladly be questioned about your citizenship...but realistically, do you think that's going to happen? No. I've seen your pic in the p90x thread (looking good, BTW...and I don't mean it in a gay way) and I seriously doubt you'd be suspected of being an illegal immigrant. But a guy that looks like me might get questioned about it just based on my appearance (which I can't help...unless I go all Michael Jackson), and that ain't cool because I'm just as American as you are. That's why I think there's a lot of things that need to or could be done to stop illegal immigration, but laws like these aren't the answer. 

Ponch, I hold no ill-will to you, I personally LOVE you for your comment about my body and how much you want me (even though I am not a sista! )  Okay, I stretched that one a little far hehe... Let's just chalk my tirade up to a bad day and hope you accept my apology if I upset you mate.

Jamey

It's all good bro (and it's all good w/ you too Troy, at least as far as I'm concerned)...I don't take this stuff personally. Having said that, I think I'm ready to bow out of this thread...we're all starting to go around in circles and just repeating stuff.

[skip68]

I love you guys tooooo.

[AKcharger]

I think the AZ law is OK 

[hemi68charger]

i would gladly be questioned by any policeman regarding my citizenship in order to ensure that those are illegal are removed expeditiously.  our fourth amendment rights are shit on by the government all the time.. illegal search and seizures, illegal wire tapping by homeland security agencies, etc. etc.  Yet we allow our government to infringe upon those "unalienable" rights every day.  Go ahead and put terrorism, jihad, and bomb in one sentence (oops just did) and see if you dont come up on a NSA or CIA or FBI spreadsheet somewhere.

its time to quit curtailing the rights and privileges of the whole for a minority that doesnt even have legality.  Its time to quit feeling like we are offending those who are illegal and realize the citizens of this country are OFFENDED.

I'm sure you would gladly be questioned about your citizenship...but realistically, do you think that's going to happen? No. I've seen your pic in the p90x thread (looking good, BTW...and I don't mean it in a gay way) and I seriously doubt you'd be suspected of being an illegal immigrant. But a guy that looks like me might get questioned about it just based on my appearance (which I can't help...unless I go all Michael Jackson), and that ain't cool because I'm just as American as you are. That's why I think there's a lot of things that need to or could be done to stop illegal immigration, but laws like these aren't the answer. 

Ponch, I hold no ill-will to you, I personally LOVE you for your comment about my body and how much you want me (even though I am not a sista! )  Okay, I stretched that one a little far hehe... Let's just chalk my tirade up to a bad day and hope you accept my apology if I upset you mate.

Jamey

It's all good bro (and it's all good w/ you too Troy, at least as far as I'm concerned)...I don't take this stuff personally. Having said that, I think I'm ready to bow out of this thread...we're all starting to go around in circles and just repeating stuff.

Ponch... I do take this stuff seriously...... 20+ years in the Air Force hasn't totally been for a paycheck, but for the security of my homeland,  a quality of life my children deserve and for what I have worked my lovin' white butt off for.. Nobody gave me anything... I couldn't apply for the countless other scholarships that were available to others, sort of reverse profiling...   .........

But, like you......... It's all good bro.........  

Troy (or is that Wedo?)

[Nacho-RT74]

I can't talk with the propper words about everything on this, since I don't have the knowledgement about USA laws or the english vocabulary to do it right, but just to details comes to me in everything on this.

I born in Venezuela, but if I go to USA nobody will tell I'm Latinamerican. For those who knows me personally ( due my Carlisle trip back in 2008 ) or pictures around nobody can't tell certainly If I'm naturally born in USA or not, so be a legal citizen by my exterior looks ( untill I open my mouth LOL ). So based on this, maybe I can easily go to USA and become on an ilegal what nobody will tell by my looks, not even AZ police.

However, MAYBE Ponch who looks more Latinamerican, could be stopped on any street and required its SS number to prove he is legally in USA... and HE IS, we know that, but not the states institutions

So the problem on this is the law is some Racist just by the fact for example some ppl will be required to show the SS number to show the legal status initially on ETHNICS basements, and thats is called racism everywhere. Although is true being an ilegal is by definition out of the law and everybody must fit on laws, you can't discard them it by ethnic appearence that's simply out of the humans rights, what is OVER ANY Constitution or law

And one of the laws basements on every part of the world based on the human rights and constitutions is I AM INOCENT UNTILL YOU PROVE I'M NOT. This deal is enforcing to a new basic of you are guilty untill you prove your innocency ( even worst, just by your ethnic look )

sorry if there is some misspelling or whatever I wrotte wrong, but I hope you got the idea.

[ZSmithersCharges]

Durn I came too late for the debate 

[Shakey]

How 'bout tattoos for the legals?   

Perhaps a microchip would be more efficient?   

No tattoo or microchip - out you go!   

BTW - I don't see why so many are so upset about the illegals from Mexico - they're not the ones parking vehicles in Times Square packed with explosives.   

[hemi68charger]

How 'bout tattoos for the legals?  

Perhaps a microchip would be more efficient?  

No tattoo or microchip - out you go!  

BTW - I don't see why so many are so upset about the illegals from Mexico - they're not the ones parking vehicles in Times Square packed with explosives.  

In the big picture, it's all the situations, not just the ones which have been brought to light in recent events.... The influx of migration without financial support, documents, vaccination records, etc. has been going on for decades and now, I fear, it's reaching critical mass....  The recent events only accentuate the sorry immigration policies we have fostered over the years. The fact we have home-grown threats isn't even on the same playing field, two different subjects........

According to the Immigration Reformation Act of 1996 as Ponch eluded to in his arguments, Entry and exit from the US will become more controlled as a result of the new legislation. New border crossing identification cards must be issued and put in use before the year 2000.vi The new cards will have "biometric identifiers" such as fingerprints or handprints that match the alien. The Attorney General is also charged with developing an automated entry-exit control system within two years.. Has this happened, nope. I don't know of any such id card for tracking? Did it get diluted?

[skip68]

I understand you Nacho.  The problem is we have a big problem with Mexicans flooding the border states doing crimes.  We just want to get the bad ones out and the good ones need help us.  It is NOT about racism.  What is the point for Mexicans to keep coming here for a better life for their children when all the bad things and people from Mexico they want to get away from are coming to ??.  If they don't see this as a problem and won't help, then maybe they shouldn't be here to.  I don't care what country you are from, if you live here it is your duty to help protect our borders. 

[hemi68charger]

I understand you Nacho.  The problem is we have a big problem with Mexicans flooding the border states doing crimes.  We just want to get the bad ones out and the good ones need help us.  It is NOT about racism.  What is the point for Mexicans to keep coming here for a better life for their children when all the bad things and people from Mexico they want to get away from are coming to ??.  If they don't see this as a problem and won't help, then maybe they shouldn't be here to.  I don't care what country you are from, if you live here it is your duty to help protect our borders.  

Energy needs to be put into their own (whatever that may be) country and fix the problems there....... Law enforcement here and getting rid of corrupt governments there would keep everyone home. Illegals and their local-native supporters have no problem protesting here, why can't they do that in their own homeland?  

[RECHRGD]

I understand you Nacho.  The problem is we have a big problem with Mexicans flooding the border states doing crimes.  We just want to get the bad ones out and the good ones need help us.  It is NOT about racism.  What is the point for Mexicans to keep coming here for a better life for their children when all the bad things and people from Mexico they want to get away from are coming to ??.  If they don't see this as a problem and won't help, then maybe they shouldn't be here to.  I don't care what country you are from, if you live here it is your duty to help protect our borders. 

Let's not forget that crossing the border illegally is also a crime!

[hemi68charger]

I understand you Nacho.  The problem is we have a big problem with Mexicans flooding the border states doing crimes.  We just want to get the bad ones out and the good ones need help us.  It is NOT about racism.  What is the point for Mexicans to keep coming here for a better life for their children when all the bad things and people from Mexico they want to get away from are coming to ??.  If they don't see this as a problem and won't help, then maybe they shouldn't be here to.  I don't care what country you are from, if you live here it is your duty to help protect our borders. 

Let's not forget that crossing the border illegally is also a crime!

I guess some think of it nothing more than jaywalking.........

[skip68]

It's sad, but most of the time the ones that start crying racism ARE the racist.  I could cry about the things I can't get because I'm white but I don't.   If this was in the northern states with Canada, we would feel the same.  I think part of becoming a U.S. Citizen is a pledge to protect our borders, is it not?.   I feel we have catered to Mexico long enough. "FOR ENGLISH PRESS 1".....  This is the land of the free and I feel that all are welcome here as long as they come the legal way. 

[RECHRGD]

Unfortunately, it's our beloved politicians that have created this mess through non-action.  Instead of doing what's best for this country, their focus is only on being reelected.  In the states with a high hispanic population it's very rare to see any action taken on the border issue, as they would be voted out of office.  This has trickled up over the years to the federal government.  The problem has gotten so out of hand now that many politicians are just hiding their heads in the sand hoping it will all just go away.  Until we can get the special interests and lobbyists out of the political picture, nothing is going to change. 

[Mike DC]

Maybe we should lobby to have the USA's border security outsourced to a Halliburton subsidiary.  Maybe then Washington would be willing to start dumping serious taxpayer money into the job.


I'm only half-joking about this. 


   

[bull]

I agree ponch tell a bunch of white guys they have to carry paper work and be subject to search and see the sh*t hit the fan  .  

You're a white guy, right? Do you have to carry any documents to prove who you are? To rent a video? To get money out of the bank? What happens when a cop stops you for speeding? Do you have to show him any documentation? What about when you buy a house?

This is just another instance where political correction becomes the addendum to the actual laws. There is no law against an officer using his or her own judgement to determine who should be questioned. That is a politically correct "law" that the PC Nazis think is in the Constitution. They would like to think a dark skinned, dark haired 25-year-old guy with a turbin is no more a suspect for terrorism than a 90-year-old Quaker woman. Political Correction is retarded.

[jeryst]

I think all this stuff about racial profiling is pure liberal BS.
It is just a tool by the liberal left to make it too expensive to do
anything about any of the problems we are having.

The majority of illegal are from Mexico, so that's where the solution
should be focused.

The majority of terrorists are from the middle east, so that's where the
solution should be focused.

If someone is a little inconvenienced because we are trying to protect our
country, economy, and citizens, BOO HOO!

We arent being overrun or terrorized by Swedes, y'know!

[RECHRGD]

I think all this stuff about racial profiling is pure liberal BS.
It is just a tool by the liberal left to make it too expensive to do
anything about any of the problems we are having.

The majority of illegal are from Mexico, so that's where the solution
should be focused.

The majority of terrorists are from the middle east, so that's where the
solution should be focused.

If someone is a little inconvenienced because we are trying to protect our
country, economy, and citizens, BOO HOO!

We arent being overrun or terrorized by Swedes, y'know!

I totally agree!  We've waited so long to do anything about it that it won't change anytime soon.  BTW, we are going broke as a nation (California is a little ahead of the curve) for a ton of reasons.  I was never involved in voting for illegals (oops, undocumented) to get free schooling, welfare, emergency room health care, drivers licenses, etc. etc. etc.. This stuff just seems to have happened over the year in the name of "human Rights".  We sure could save many billions of dollars by getting rid of entitlements for non-citizens and at the same time take away a huge  incentive for illegal immigration in the first place.

[bull]

It's not so much the illegals that are protected by the Fourth Amendement, it's the people who are here legally or American Citizens (like myself) who happen to be Hispanic. They may not pull someone over just for the sake of checking, but if I run a stop sign and get pulled over, why should I be subjected to the humlliation of being asked if I'm legal or not? Let's face it, if a blond blue eyed white guy named Parker Rockefeller gets pulled over for the same thing, odds are they are not going to ask him for papers. If you think that scenario would not happen, that's just being naive. In other words, I'm being treated differently - as a US Citizen - just because of how I look and/or my name.  How is that kosher?

WTF does kosher have to do with laws? Why should anyone care how you FEEL when you are asked if you are legal or not? I for one really don't give a flying you-know-what if you feel humiliated or not. And why do you? Are you ashamed or your heritage? But still, who cares? This is where people need to draw a destinction between political correction and actual laws. Laws don't, and shouldn't, take a person's emotions into consideration. If the cops are looking for a 6"1" bank robber driving a blue pickup and I get pulled over and cuffed and questioned, I really don't expect anyone to give a rat's A$$ about my emotional state. Jeez. I really wish people in this country would man up. Emasculation is swiftly running this country into the ground.

[hemi68charger]

I hope all of you, for whatever it's worth, are writing your Congressional Representatives.. I write mine on average twice a year to let them know how I feel... It may go on deaf ears, but at least you tried and voiced your constituent's voice. This stuff does work...... I have legislation that I initiated via my local Congressional Representative that went from Bill to Law and signed by then Gov. Bush here in Texas........  We can not become numb to this and think, "someone else will do it"....

Troy

[ZSmithersCharges]

I just typed a long ass paragraph and pressed control W instead of shift to capitalize.  I will not rewrite what I said as Bull and I practically wrote the same thing so I feel a little bit better.

Stop being so selfish.  You will be asked to prove your citizenship for the greater good of the nation in which you live, for its people, and for your very own family to assure that you give back to the nation like a legal citizen.  It has nothing to do with racism it just happens that your race is invading our country.  I have been profiled before because I just so happened to actually be in a scenario like Bull stated except it was some kid and he broke a window in our neighborhood.  I had an alibi, had done no wrong, therefore had nothing to hide.  The officer questioned me, i answered and was gone, in about ten minutes. Profiling is a very powerful tool which helps catch criminals, and it cannot be denied.  This certain criminal refuses to stand up for what he believes in in his country so he comes to ours to take money from our citizens and cause trouble.  This criminal needs to be profiled, caught, and removed.  Simple as that.  They are not going to deport you just because you look similar, they will question you verify you and send you on your way.  People who refuse to do this for their country either A have something to hide B are sympathizers or C all of the above. Get off your high horse, we have a problem here and your cooperation will help solve it.

[Mike DC]

  
Majorities saying that minorities are making too big a deal about profiling - it rings a bit hollow IMHO.


Being profiled once or twice is not an equivalent experience IMHO. 

 

[ZSmithersCharges]

 
Majorities saying that minorities are making too big a deal about profiling - it rings a bit hollow IMHO.


Being profiled once or twice is not an equivalent experience IMHO.  

 

Whats your grand solution then?  Just give them all a pass because were too sensitive to do anything about it?  The question has to be asked at some point so how do you tell the difference between one or the other without asking?  Or should we just not ask and send them all legal or not?  That seems to be the only solution if we now cannot even ask because we don't want people to be butt hurt...

There is a real problem here which needs a real solution.  The only solution here may not be politically correct but real solutions hardly ever are.