Lowered with issues

[MellowCharger]

Hi Guys

I have lowered my Charger by 2" but on top of which the springs I guess could be 40 yrs old.

The car sits right as far as i'm concerned but the angle that the prop enters the diff doesn't look healthy. The diff needs to be angled as such to meet the prop correctly.

I guess this is not the first time this has come to light but what is the solution. It would seem that angled lowering block would be the answer but are such items available?
Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Many Thanks

[tan top]

hi Lee , normaly i would say these , but your car is lowered ,  might need to shim the gearbox to cross member also    
       could get a engineering firm to make you an assortment  of shims , prolly cheaper that the mp set
    http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/moprearaxshi.html

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/anglefinder.html

[1970Moparmann]

Mine was off a lot.  I wound up playing around with different shimes, and got it right.  Summit has a bunch of them to choose from.

[MellowCharger]

Thanks Guys

What are these exactly and where do they fit? Any pics?

"Mopar Performance Parts has developed these tapered pinion angle shims so pinion to driveshaft angle can be adjusted to the correct five to seven degrees. Kit includes two each 1, 2, and 3-degree shims".

[MellowCharger]

It's OK.....I found them

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/noname45.html

I guess these will lower the car yet further on top of my blocks already fitted.

[1970Moparmann]

Thanks Guys

What are these exactly and where do they fit? Any pics?

"Mopar Performance Parts has developed these tapered pinion angle shims so pinion to driveshaft angle can be adjusted to the correct five to seven degrees. Kit includes two each 1, 2, and 3-degree shims".

Just loosen up the U-bolts to the leaf spring, and up the shims in.  Make sure you get the right ones size wise.  I learned the hard way!  I wouldn't drive the car without these in it! 

[MellowCharger]

My thoughts exactly......the car is staying put.

Many thanks

[1970Moparmann]

It's OK.....I found them

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/noname45.html

I guess these will lower the car yet further on top of my blocks already fitted.

I had to take my blocks out because the shims lowered it too much.  I have the Mancini two position leaf spring brackets also.  You don't want to drive the car with the pinion angle of what it is right now.   Mine is now 1 degree angle down which is close to where it should be.

[MellowCharger]

I've an idea that I will need to skim the blocks down to keep the ride height.

My springs are sitting a bit flat too.

Is there a location bolt that runs through the bocks in these cos I'm concerned that the shims fitted ontop of the blocks might slip out.?

[1970Moparmann]

Depending on the angle of your axle now, you may have to remove your blocks, or get a smaller size.  I was shocked at how much lower the car was with the shims.  A 4 degree shim was equivalent to a 1" block for my car.  The shims I got from Summit has the same hole in it as the blocks to keep it safe. 

[HPP]

The shims should only be something like .25" thick, how could this have dropped your car an inch?

FWIW, mopar springs should appear to be nearly flat in their installed position, unless your using super stock springs. If you currently have blocks to get the ride height you want, you can cut, sand, shave, or mill them to get the desired pinion angle without adding additional shims.

[MellowCharger]

The shims should only be something like .25" thick, how could this have dropped your car an inch?

FWIW, mopar springs should appear to be nearly flat in their installed position, unless your using super stock springs. If you currently have blocks to get the ride height you want, you can cut, sand, shave, or mill them to get the desired pinion angle without adding additional shims.

Exactly what I was thinking.

It will in effect raise the car slightly but it'll be minimal

[tradercraig]

i have seen this a few times, but i still need to ask...why do you want to lower the height of a perfectly engineered car?  i don't understand, do you just want something different? does your garage have a low ceiling?

[HPP]

Because these cars were engineered to be suitably safe drivers for everone with a broad range of driving skills from a teenager who just go their license, to Ricky Racer, to a family on their way to the store, to Grandma Gerty. Additionally, the engineering of the day was limited by the tire technology at its disposal and things have progressed significantly in the last four decades to where we can improve how these cars look and perform by slightly altering some of the items that factory provided. On top of that is the fact that driver expectations of performance have grown with the technology and what was acceptable for a muscle of 40 years ago can now be considered an ill mannered, poor driving vehicle.

By lower the car, changing to wider radials, altering the alignment, and in some cases, changing the geometry, you can make a classic muscle car that feels as tight, repsonsive, and more fun to drive than a late model sports sedan without compromising its safety and character.

[Brock Samson]

  WORD






     Grandma Gerty
                           

[1970Moparmann]

By lower the car, changing to wider radials, altering the alignment, and in some cases, changing the geometry, you can make a classic muscle car that feels as tight, repsonsive, and more fun to drive than a late model sports sedan without compromising its safety and character.

Yep.

[MellowCharger]

Spot on..........................I couldn't have put it better myself.

[tradercraig]

HPP, thank you for the explanation...all too often, i see people lowering rides just to "look cool", with no real thoiught about the differences in handling, safety, etc...i fully understand your reasoning about the changes in tire technology...when  i sold my 1970 charger ( in 1974) and bought a new 1974 charger, the difference in handling was AMAZING- due to the bigger better radials, rubber isolators, tuned shocks, front and rear antisway bars, etc...however, i am still cautious about the need to lower the ride height...without some real engineering expertise, that can open up possibilities of stering and handling difficulties, excess wear on drive line parts, and bottoming out some tender parts such as oil and trans pans, etc.. does a 1 or 2 inch lowering of ride height make that much of an improvement in performance?  could you refer me to any threads/articles where this is covered in great detail? now i am curious...

[1970Moparmann]

I lowered my mine, put a good sway bar on it, tubular control arms, Edelbrock IAS shocks, new tires/wheels, and boy does it handle A LOT better than the standard set up.  It grips to the road better, virtually no body role...  Was very surprised and happy.  The car is a ton of fun to drive!



The ass of the car is way down due to a loaded trunk for the Hot Rod Power Tour.  Too much beer.....

[HPP]

Tradercraig, I don't know that there any single thread on DC.com that has a good in depth explanation of the various changes, results, why, and wherefores of doing these types of changes without getting in to a lot of mis-information as well. If you are so inclined, I would recommend you search for a copy of the Mike Martin book titled "Mopar Suspensions."  While this is an older book, 25+ years old, it does have a lot of good information about the inter-relationship of the many aspects of a suspension system.

To give you a perspective on it, lowering a car is like installing headers. As a single point of modification, it can improve the efficicency of the system a good deal, but to reap the full benefit requires a more systemic approach with looking at other items that impact the efficiency of that single part. So like headers work best with a cam, intake, carb, and cam swap, so too does lowering work hand in hand with wider tires, better shocks, different alignment specs, and improved wheel rates ( which can be heavier spring rates or sway bar rates).

IMO, some of the least expensive yet biggest gains to be made in mopar handling are to simply drop the ride height an inch or two and change the alignment specs from the factory recommended set up to something that has 0 to -1* camber, as much positive caster as possible, and .062-.125 of toe in.  Doing these few mods drops the center of gravity height, reduces the moment lever arm ( which causes body roll), allows the tires to maintain better contact patch in corners, provides improved steering feedback to the driver, and reduces some of the traming, or hunting, that older cars sometimes have.

[NMike]

when you look at the driveshaft, the pinion angle is not so much as to whether the pinion is pointing at the trans, but its relation to the transmission output.



on your car aim for the first to second image.

[mauve66]

also remember that the pinion is going to rotate up into the floor pan under acceleration so i would think that a slightly down angle (in relation to the rest of the drivetrain like the pics) at rest would be beneficial so that it is pulled up in a more desirable angle under constant load

[TylerCharger69]

What about relocating spring perches??    Or am i misunderstanding here??

[doctor4766]

Tradercraig, I don't know that there any single thread on DC.com that has a good in depth explanation of the various changes, results, why, and wherefores of doing these types of changes without getting in to a lot of mis-information as well. If you are so inclined, I would recommend you search for a copy of the Mike Martin book titled "Mopar Suspensions."  While this is an older book, 25+ years old, it does have a lot of good information about the inter-relationship of the many aspects of a suspension system.
To give you a perspective on it, lowering a car is like installing headers. As a single point of modification, it can improve the efficicency of the system a good deal, but to reap the full benefit requires a more systemic approach with looking at other items that impact the efficiency of that single part. So like headers work best with a cam, intake, carb, and cam swap, so too does lowering work hand in hand with wider tires, better shocks, different alignment specs, and improved wheel rates ( which can be heavier spring rates or sway bar rates).
IMO, some of the least expensive yet biggest gains to be made in mopar handling are to simply drop the ride height an inch or two and change the alignment specs from the factory recommended set up to something that has 0 to -1* camber, as much positive caster as possible, and .062-.125 of toe in.  Doing these few mods drops the center of gravity height, reduces the moment lever arm ( which causes body roll), allows the tires to maintain better contact patch in corners, provides improved steering feedback to the driver, and reduces some of the traming, or hunting, that older cars sometimes have.

I'm unsure of how common a mod this is, but we shortened the castor arms on my Charger, effectively pulling the front wheels forward and giving better handling.
Anyone here done this too???

[HPP]

What about relocating spring perches??    Or am i misunderstanding here??

Not quite what we are talking about here, but it can be a component of the equation.

I'm unsure of how common a mod this is, but we shortened the castor arms on my Charger, effectively pulling the front wheels forward and giving better handling.
Anyone here done this too???

Yes, that allows additional positive caster to be dialed in to the alignment. This is commonly done via adjustable strut rods. This change plus offset upper arm bushings can get as much caster as tubular control arms at half the price. But it doesn't look at trick to the casual observer.