Trying electrolysis on hood

[General_01]

Today my cousin and I built a wood box so I could try electrolysis rust removal on my hood. Everything went well, but I did put a hole in the poly with one of the rebar rods. Unfortunately, we did not realize it until we put the hood in and filled it with water. I have the hose in on low and am trying to keep the water level at an even keel. The only problem is that I am losing water/laundry soda mixture and replacing with just water. We will see how it goes. Here is a before pic of the hood and the setup. I will post pics in a couple days to show how the process is going.

[ZSmithersCharges]

I was just watching a video on a guy using it on a lock thinking, "im gonna have to try this on one of the charger panels!"  Well, there you go!  Guess you can try it.  If it works I'll follow suit!

Also what are you using as a power source?  A car battery charger?

[Musicman]

Hopefully that will work for you

If not... go buy yourself some Evapo-Rust.

http://www.evapo-rust.com/

Q) How can I use it on a surface too large to soak?
A) A smooth paper towel can be soaked with Evapo-Rust and applied to the rusted area. After this is done, cover with plastic to prevent evaporation. When item is de-rusted rinse with water.

[ZSmithersCharges]

Hopefully that will work for you

If not... go buy yourself some Evapo-Rust.

http://www.evapo-rust.com/

Q) How can I use it on a surface too large to soak?
A) A smooth paper towel can be soaked with Evapo-Rust and applied to the rusted area. After this is done, cover with plastic to prevent evaporation. When item is de-rusted rinse with water.

Saw some of this in Harbor Freight... might have to pick some up so I can do that in the mean time while I'm waiting on the other process.

[Musicman]

Believe it or not, the stuff actually works, and works well too

Weird isn't it... a product that actually does what it says it will do

[ZSmithersCharges]

Believe it or not, the stuff actually works, and works well too

Weird isn't it... a product that actually does what it says it will do

Well thank you for verifying that, I'll pick some up when I go to get my engine lift!  I'm excited now!  Know a good brand of paint remover?

[General_01]

Hopefully that will work for you

If not... go buy yourself some Evapo-Rust.

http://www.evapo-rust.com/

Q) How can I use it on a surface too large to soak?
A) A smooth paper towel can be soaked with Evapo-Rust and applied to the rusted area. After this is done, cover with plastic to prevent evaporation. When item is de-rusted rinse with water.

I will keep that in mind. Thanks for the link and the suggestion.

[Todd Wilson]

Hope you got the hood hooked up right or you wont have a hood in a few days!   



Todd

[MoparManJim]

Hope you got the hood hooked up right or you wont have a hood in a few days!   



Todd

Now I have not did anything like what is talk about in this thread, but, I take it you found out the hard way? 

[Todd Wilson]

Hope you got the hood hooked up right or you wont have a hood in a few days!   



Todd

Now I have not did anything like what is talk about in this thread, but, I take it you found out the hard way? 

In order for it to work and it will work  you have to have an anode to sacrifice. Old lawn mower blade or something like that. I am curious to see how well something that big works. If the power supply will have enough poop to work in such a large tank.


Todd

[General_01]

We have 8 rerod bars around the tank as anodes and we the power is from a battery charger/200 amp starter with it set on the 200 amp start mode. We do see it working, but you are right about how well it will work in a tank this big. I have never done this even on a small scale, so I am just as curious as you are about how well it will work.

I checked it at about 8:00 tonight and it seems to be working some. The rerods have the rust clinging to them and pooling around them on the surface and I can see bubbles coming off the hood. I will check it in the morning to see how it looks. We hooked it up about 3:00 today, so I will probably have a better idea tommorow morning after about 18-19 hours in the tank.

[Todd Wilson]

Hopefully you wont burn out your battery charger running in start mode all that time. I checked with a buddy of mine and he said the bigger the tank 20amps and 12-20volts should be enough. Would like to see pictures of the hood when you are done.


Todd

[General_01]

I will post pics after the we pull it out.

We did not see any reaction in the tank until we upped the amps. We started with it on the 35 amp charge setting and did not see anything happening. That is why we upped the amps.

[rav440]

interesting .  now who is going to the next level and doing a whole car ?

[ZSmithersCharges]

interesting .  now who is going to the next level and doing a whole car ?

Yes.

[BigBlackDodge]

Don't you have to have the rebar near the rust.............I thought there had to be a 'line of sight' with the rusted area and the rebar for it to work properly?

Dunno, just asking.....


BBD

[PocketThunder]

 

[ZSmithersCharges]

Don't you have to have the rebar near the rust.............I thought there had to be a 'line of sight' with the rusted area and the rebar for it to work properly?

Dunno, just asking.....


BBD

This is correct.

There is a pretty good line of site between the rebar and the bottom of the hood.  From the pictures I can't tell how low the rebar goes on the front of the hood but I would imagine its ok

Edit: Can't really tell how its connected in the pictures.  There is no showing of the connection from negative to positive so it could be set up right it could not be?

[66FBCharger]

 

[General_01]

Don't you have to have the rebar near the rust.............I thought there had to be a 'line of sight' with the rusted area and the rebar for it to work properly?

Dunno, just asking.....


BBD

This is correct.

There is a pretty good line of site between the rebar and the bottom of the hood.  From the pictures I can't tell how low the rebar goes on the front of the hood but I would imagine its ok

Edit: Can't really tell how its connected in the pictures.  There is no showing of the connection from negative to positive so it could be set up right it could not be?

Positive goes to grid and negative goes to hood.

[ZSmithersCharges]

Positive goes to grid and negative goes to hood.

All of the rebar are hooked together with that silver wire correct?  If so the LOS should be okay all the way around the hood I would think.

[tan top]

this is intresting   

[ZSmithersCharges]

this is intresting   

+1 I hope it works.  I'll build a pool in my backyard and throw the charger in it.

[General_01]

Positive goes to grid and negative goes to hood.

All of the rebar are hooked together with that silver wire correct?  If so the LOS should be okay all the way around the hood I would think.

Yes, rebar is connected with the wire, but not a loop. You do not end at the rebar you started at.

[Troy]

this is intresting   

+1 I hope it works.  I'll build a pool in my backyard and throw the charger in it.

Troy

[tan top]

this is intresting   

+1 I hope it works.  I'll build a pool in my backyard and throw the charger in it.

[vancamp]

so hows it doing? any pics of a shiny rust free hood or a lump of metal that used to be a hood.

[General_01]

It has been raining since yesterday, but I tipped it out of the pool to take a few pics. It is not rust free, but I am sure I would have gotten better results if I had not put a hole in the plastic and had to keep adding water and diluting the the mixture. I also put the battery charger in the garage yeasterday morning because it was raining. So it ran from about 3:00 Saturday until Monday morning.

I wiped off the rusty film. It looked like it worked well on the front of the hood, which had the most rust.

[SFRT]

why is this better than an hour with a 3m roloc  purple spaghetti on an electric grinder??

[General_01]

I didn't say it was better. I was kinda worried about how thin the metal might be at the front of the hood and this process won't allow me to "accidentally" put a hole in my hood. It was just a neat experiment and I volunteered myself to be the ginea pig so others could see. Keep having fun with your grinder.

[tan top]

looks like its sort of worked
what about putting less water in ! say just covering the hood

[General_01]

That might work better. We will see if I do it some more or not. If I do I have to fix the plastic so the mixture can remain constant.

[ZSmithersCharges]

Yea I think the hole had a big impact.  That is very cool that you got some results though at all!  Now its just about fine tuning  I was starting to wonder what you were going to do about rain as well.  Also, you look like an actor of sorts where have I seen you before 

The question about the 3m answer:

The process of electrolysis for rust removal when done correctly causes no negative side effects to the metal at all.  It simply takes the rust off none of the metal beneath it.  I'm sure you can see why that would be quite valuable when trying to fix rust issues on one off pieces that would not be able to be replicated easily or with a high cost.  A few days to me to save a couple hundred bucks seems worth it in my opinion.  Especially since everything he used I have so making this would cost me not a dime.

[MoparManJim]

Yea I think the hole had a big impact.  That is very cool that you got some results though at all!  Now its just about fine tuning  I was starting to wonder what you were going to do about rain as well.  Also, you look like an actor of sorts where have I seen you before  

The question about the 3m answer:

The process of electrolysis for rust removal when done correctly causes no negative side effects to the metal at all.  It simply takes the rust off none of the metal beneath it.  I'm sure you can see why that would be quite valuable when trying to fix rust issues on one off pieces that would not be able to be replicated easily or with a high cost.  A few days to me to save a couple hundred bucks seems worth it in my opinion.  Especially since everything he used I have so making this would cost me not a dime.

I think that is his brother in the photos? But he does also remind me of an actor, I just had the name on the tip of my tug to and lost it. I hate when that happens. 

Anyways, I'll be watching this thread as I like this kinda of stuff. I think with the plastice liner having the hole in it did cause a issue like ZSmith mention above. 

[tan top]

That might work better. We will see if I do it some more or not. If I do I have to fix the plastic so the mixture can remain constant.

yeah that might be the key to it ! same water 

[Highbanked Hauler]

   I had a fender dipped to remove rust and they had it for 10 days total. It was 90% clean after 7 days so we let it go for the extra time. I have no idea what they used in the tank.

[Brock Lee]

Yea I think the hole had a big impact.  That is very cool that you got some results though at all!  Now its just about fine tuning  I was starting to wonder what you were going to do about rain as well.  Also, you look like an actor of sorts where have I seen you before  

The question about the 3m answer:

The process of electrolysis for rust removal when done correctly causes no negative side effects to the metal at all.  It simply takes the rust off none of the metal beneath it.  I'm sure you can see why that would be quite valuable when trying to fix rust issues on one off pieces that would not be able to be replicated easily or with a high cost.  A few days to me to save a couple hundred bucks seems worth it in my opinion.  Especially since everything he used I have so making this would cost me not a dime.

I think that is his brother in the photos? But he does also remind me of an actor, I just had the name on the tip of my tug to and lost it. I hate when that happens. 

Anyways, I'll be watching this thread as I like this kinda of stuff. I think with the plastice liner having the hole in it did cause a issue like ZSmith mention above. 

I was thinking Oliver Stone

[OneofNoneRT]

Anybody trying this need to understand that the Bubbles that come from the part as it is "Cooking" is Hydrogen! Do not set this up in your shop without good ventilation..

Electrolysis is generally line of sight..so if the electrode cannot "see" the area it will not clear it, so you may have to be creative on electrode placement..

obviously do not let the electrode touch your part it will short out and may harm your Charger..
If rebar Try putting it inside a PVC Pipe with holes cut in it( so it can "see").

Needs TRUE DC power.. Some Battery chargers use a poorly rectified AC And will not work as efficiently..

Uhmm.. I have been researching this a little..I want to set up a buisiness where I can dip the entire car In a large tank. I plan on reclaiming the hydrogen byproduct..

[ZSmithersCharges]

Anybody trying this need to understand that the Bubbles that come from the part as it is "Cooking" is Hydrogen! Do not set this up in your shop without good ventilation..

Electrolysis is generally line of sight..so if the electrode cannot "see" the area it will not clear it, so you may have to be creative on electrode placement..

obviously do not let the electrode touch your part it will short out and may harm your Charger..
If rebar Try putting it inside a PVC Pipe with holes cut in it( so it can "see").

Needs TRUE DC power.. Some Battery chargers use a poorly rectified AC And will not work as efficiently..

Uhmm.. I have been researching this a little..I want to set up a buisiness where I can dip the entire car In a large tank. I plan on reclaiming the hydrogen byproduct..

Sounds good to me.  I wonder what would happen if we fed hydrogen into our carbs?

On a larger note your looking at a pretty hefty power bill for the whole car I would think.  How would you go about setting up your electrodes?  Via plates throughout the car and around the tank to get LOS on all of the parts?  Would you use separate power sources or one very large one?  Will be doing this myself and would like to toss the idea ball back and fourth with you.  Not that you care to just something of interest to me.

[OneofNoneRT]

Since I would be offering this as a service. It would be setup very generic and easy to setup and change for differing vehicles and items.. I was thinking a large platform with varied holes in the bottom like a electronic circuit board without the circuits. It would be larger than the car itself., Just small enough to be lowered into the vat.  The holes perform 2 functions. 1 is to allow the (water) to penetrate as it is lowered in and the second is for the sacrificial electrodes to reside.... The car is placed on this Pad then the electrodes are positioned to get the best coverage once all is wired then the entire rig is picked and placed into the vat.. Now comes the harder to answer questions, like you said what will power this and be able to vary the current ?.. How long will it take? How well will this loosen remove paint and other contaniments?, How long will the ( water) last before it is to contaminated?, and 2 very big ones  the car is out and clean what can be easily put on the car to prevent flash rust and get back to customer as well as give them time to start work on it AND not contaminate whatever product they decide to go with. And finally How much to charge for this service... ALOT more research before I start investing in this setup, Its just an idea now, But i have the facility, with a 5 ton crane.. And this idea...

[ZSmithersCharges]

Well I don't think you would have such a large issue with stopping flash rust as you already have a soak tank for the electrolysis.  You could probably get away with using a dipping procedure like some shops do after an acid bath(I know they no longer us acid) in the same tank.  If you are worried about contamination you could make a second dipping booth.  However I really think dipping is your only option in this scenario because if done efficiently you will be removing rust from areas that will not be that easy to use spray on applications as they may not be fully accessible.    The power supply is a tough one I think you would have to draw up plans first and see what kind of electrodes/circuitry you will be using and then go from there.  I think it would make more sense to use a large supply unit on the sacrificial metal around the tank and a separate smaller unit to use for the plates you would be putting inside of the car as those areas are more selective and are subject to change in size.  Whereas, the outside plates will never change in size and would need to be rather large in any scenario to cover the whole car from side to side top to bottom front to back.

[66FBCharger]

Isn't this the same process that Redi Strip uses? When I had my parts dipped I asked about it. They told me they were dipping into Lye that they ran electricity through. It seems like the same process as has been demonstrated on this thread.

[ZSmithersCharges]

Sounds like it!   I'm starting my experiments tonight.  Not with charger parts yet though so no pictures.

[Ponch ®]

doesn't vinegar do the same thing?

I saw it on Good Eats...Alton Brown dropped a rusty piece of metal into some vinegar and when he took it out hours (days?) later it was clean. 

[Troy]

doesn't vinegar do the same thing?

I saw it on Good Eats...Alton Brown dropped a rusty piece of metal into some vinegar and when he took it out hours (days?) later it was clean. 

Yep. Works really fast on minor surface rust. I spray it on and wipe it with a clean cloth (won't be clean long) then wash it with water to neutralize it and blow it dry. I haven't let it sit for a long period of time or on heavy rust/pitting.




Troy

[rav440]

doesn't vinegar do the same thing?

I saw it on Good Eats...Alton Brown dropped a rusty piece of metal into some vinegar and when he took it out hours (days?) later it was clean. 

Yep. Works really fast on minor surface rust. I spray it on and wipe it with a clean cloth (won't be clean long) then wash it with water to neutralize it and blow it dry. I haven't let it sit for a long period of time or on heavy rust/pitting.


.



Troy

[Highbanked Hauler]

 So in theory  you could strip a lower control arm by putting it in a large plastic pail with enough vinegar  to cover it and in a few days it should be clean??

[Brock Lee]

Careful of the vinegar fumes. It is corrosive, especially to platings like nickel (enough exposure and it will strip nickel down to the copper base). I use it to antique metal.

[jeryst]

If you hook up the electrodes backwards, will it make the part more rusty? -lol

Seriously, though, why not just have it media blasted with potassium? It's like soda blasting, but aggressive enough to remove rust,
without being aggressive enough to remove metal. At least that's what a blasting guy told me.

Or you can use this stuff...    http://strongarmsprays.com/SitePages/USAGES/

I've used it for years, and it is amazing. I always have a can around the garage.
You can spray it on bare metal, and it wont flash rust for years.

[ZSmithersCharges]

If you hook up the electrodes backwards, will it make the part more rusty? -lol

Seriously, though, why not just have it media blasted with potassium? It's like soda blasting, but aggressive enough to remove rust,
without being aggressive enough to remove metal. At least that's what a blasting guy told me.

Or you can use this stuff...    http://strongarmsprays.com/SitePages/USAGES/

I've used it for years, and it is amazing. I always have a can around the garage.
You can spray it on bare metal, and it wont flash rust for years.

Probably because of the price. For sand, soda or any other blasting you need an air compressor a blast machine(not the technical name) protective gloves eye protection filtration mask proper area to do it blast media 220V hookup in work area for compressor etc.  All you need for this is water 1tbl spoon baking soda per gallon and a battery charger.  You might have to build a box like he did if its for large parts.  For small things a 5 gallon bucket will work.  Either way for any sort of home blasting you need at least everything I put on that list which can get pretty expensive in comparison.

Not to mention it's just a fun little experiment 

[E5 Charger]

I've never heard of that Strongarm spray. My bumper has black pits in it, but the chrome still looks good. Hmm, I wonder if it will take out the appearance of the pits. I'm watching this post because I have a hood with a lot of rust underneath.

[jeryst]

Probably because of the price. For sand, soda or any other blasting you need an air compressor a blast machine(not the technical name) protective gloves eye protection filtration mask proper area to do it blast media 220V hookup in work area for compressor etc.  All you need for this is water 1tbl spoon baking soda per gallon and a battery charger.  You might have to build a box like he did if its for large parts.  For small things a 5 gallon bucket will work.  Either way for any sort of home blasting you need at least everything I put on that list which can get pretty expensive in comparison.

Not to mention it's just a fun little experiment 

I had a guy blast a whole fender for me. Cost $50. Was spotless when he was done. I would think there is $50 of wood in that box - lol.

I agree on the entertainment factor of this approach, though.

[Wicked72]

Harbor freight blaster setup with media would be about $60(Depending on the media) but you will need a good compressor setup!! walnut shells, soda, aluminum oxide, glass, etc they have it all and its extremely cheap but they work great and last. A pair of gogs and a good resp you should already have if your a diyer. just have to be careful! Im about to use walnut shells and sand to strip my interior.

[Highbanked Hauler]

 Any new results or pictures of the hood?

[General_01]

No more pics. I wasn't able to keep up with the water leaking out. I didn't need an enormous water bill. I wasn't ready to take it out either, so the bare spots flash rusted. Here is what I learned though.

1- If you have a large piece like mine, you may want to bend a 6 ft rebar rod and run part of it under the large piece. That way you will have "line of site" to rust areas towards the center of the piece.

2- Put it under a canopy so you can keep it running even if it rains.

3- You need to be ready with everything you are going to do so you can rinse it, dry it, and prime it in a short time to prevent flash rusting.

All in all, I would say that this procedure is great for smaller parts, but not larger pieces. I am going to take the hood and have it blasted so I can finish it up. Hopefully within two weeks. Sounds like enough time, but trust me, it isn't really. 

Sorry I had to give it up. Was hoping to have some great pics after I took it out.

[Highbanked Hauler]

 not everything works on the first try but you gave it a shot

[jeryst]

If it wasnt for people trying things, none of us would know anything.