How rare is a 69 R/T SE?

[69CoronetRT]

Is it fair to say ....

No because you have to assume facts not in evidence. You have to assume the distribution of the four speeds within the subset of SE's is the same as the distribuion as the R/Ts and there is nothing to support that assumption. SE owners could have ordered more four speeds than R/T buyers or they could have ordered automatics in a ratio much higher than R/T owners. There is no way to know which is true.

Stop telling me No.     Just looking to get an idea, ball park figure, an about.

But the answer is no.  There isn't any way to even get an about or ballpark.  The only number you could say for sure or even as an about is that there are less than the total number of RT four speeds and at least as many as the 48 that Chris has registered.  Any other estimate isn't much more than a dart thrown at a wall of numbers.  I understand why you would want to know but the problem comes in that as soon as someone sees our estimate here on the interent, suddenly it's an official figure as it enters the realm of urban legend.
[/quote]

We have a winner! That's one reason why you don't speculate. How many things have been published in magazines and thought to be the 'truth' and later been proven wrong?

[GATOR MC KLUSKY]

I have no fender tag, but I know it is a SE/RT. Is there a way to find out with the VIN Number what is the deal with the car, or should I just be happy that I have one, and keep my mouth shut? 

[y3chargerrt]

How do know its an original R/T S/E? The code for the S/E (A47) is on the date plate and broadcast sheet

[694spdRT]

I have no fender tag, but I know it is a SE/RT. Is there a way to find out with the VIN Number what is the deal with the car, or should I just be happy that I have one, and keep my mouth shut?  

The VIN will tell you it is an R/T, what the engine is/was, what year it is, plant where it was built, and the sequence# at the plant where it was built. Not to say it is not but nothing about the SE or 4 speed status is going to be there.

[Brock Samson]

 rare to see the pedal dress up on a non SE car,.. though some have made the switch.. leather on the buckets?..  Being an R/T S.E. was a requirement when i was looking for a charger,.. by luck the first lead i had was for mine...

[crusty440]

Mine's an orginal R/TSE, 4-speed, had no idea they are that rare.  Didn't the SE package also include the interior wood grain dash?

[tan top]

Mine's an orginal R/TSE, 4-speed, had no idea they are that rare.  Didn't the SE package also include the interior wood grain dash?

yes woodgrain dash &  the A01 light group package  

hey crusty what color combo is your charger would love to see some picures dude  

[crusty440]

Original was the B7, but was painted B5 around 20 years ago.  I got a couple pic's from the original owner, kinda liked the darker blue with the black top.  Sorry, I'm long overdue to post pic's.  I'm afraid I'm not very computer savvy

[HOTROD]

I know were one went 6 month ago --(THE CRUSHER )-- and the dumasses drove it in -salvage yard in OKlhoma a friend of mine tryed to get it and they laft at him as the forks went threw the windows   

[1969chargerrtse]

I know were one went 6 month ago --(THE CRUSHER )-- and the dumasses drove it in -salvage yard in OKlhoma a friend of mine tryed to get it and they laft at him as the forks went threw the windows   

I find that hard to believe that any yard would let a second gen charger go to the crusher in this day and age?

[1969chargerrtse]

I have no fender tag, but I know it is a SE/RT. Is there a way to find out with the VIN Number what is the deal with the car, or should I just be happy that I have one, and keep my mouth shut? 

What I did with my RTSE to be sure and sleep better at night was this, as I have no fender tag or build sheet..........
I matched the XS29 vin on the I.D tag to the front radiator support and trunk lip stampings, so I know It's a true R/T.
I know the firewall for a A/C car is different for a A/C car than non A/C car so I know it had A/C.
I pulled the inner sail panel headliner pieces and took a look at the mounting holes for the SE emblems so I know it didn't have bondo up "Charger" scripts so i know It's a real SE.
I took the door panels and rear panels off to see what I could see with the power windows and one of them had the original plastic and black tape over the gear crank section so i know it's an original Power window car.
The rarest thing is the Power disk, and I have no idea how to figure out if they came on the car, but in my mind they did. 

[Ghoste]

It is by no means at all a certain method but there is some solace in determining your disc brakes in that converting the entire system over is a fairly involved procedure and for a very long time, no one worried too greatly about it.  Around the time that everyone started to convert older cars to discs, the four piston setup was already becoming very difficult to get parts for and largely viewed as a less than ideal way to go in any case.  For someone to convert your 69 to power discs and change out all the pieces, they would have to be a real stickler for wanting it to be all factory.  Odds are pretty good that it's legit (drums are ten inch on the back and not the usual RT eleven inchers right?).

[RAC95054]

Since I also have a '69 4-speed R/T SE, I went through thr production numbers to come up with this:

Total 1969 Dodge Chargers incl. exports (X*29*9*):      89199
Total 1969 Charger R/T incl. exports (XS29*9*):      20057
Total US 1969 Charger R/T w/ 440-4bbl (XS29L9*):      18344
Total US 1969 Charger R/T 440-4, 4-speed (XS29L9*):       3605  (just 19.7% of all R/Ts)

Only about 13.4% of non-R/Ts (9240 of 69142) were ordered with the new for 1969 Special Edition (SE) option code A47.  Applying that percentage to R/T production would give the following guesstimate breakdown of '69 Charger R/T SE production:

Total 440-4bbl, 4-speed Chargers w/ SE Option (3605 x 0.134) =   482
(Note: The SE option was not available on the Hemi R/T)

So it's likely there were fewer than 500 4-speed R/T SE's ever made.  If you've got one with a rare color, then it becomes a 1 of 25 or less.

[69CoronetRT]

Only about 13.4% of non-R/Ts (9240 of 69142) were ordered with the new for 1969 Special Edition (SE) option code A47.  Applying that percentage to R/T production would give the following guesstimate breakdown of '69 Charger R/T SE production:

Total 440-4bbl, 4-speed Chargers w/ SE Option (3605 x 0.134) =   482
(Note: The SE option was not available on the Hemi R/T)

So it's likely there were fewer than 500 4-speed R/T SE's ever made.  If you've got one with a rare color, then it becomes a 1 of 25 or less.

Again, I'm sorry but you can't assume the same percentages and apply them across models. There is no way to know what percentage of R/Ts were ordered with the SE option. They could have been ordered in a much higher or much lower percentage than non R/T's. There is no proof one way or the other. You also cannot include colors. That's really stretching credibility. The best answer is still "we don't know because no factory documentation exists. All we can go on are the R/T-SE's known to exist." (unless you are trying to get a writing gig with MCG and you don't mind making up a WAG on options. How cool is that?)

[RAC95054]

Only about 13.4% of non-R/Ts (9240 of 69142) were ordered with the new for 1969 Special Edition (SE) option code A47.  Applying that percentage to R/T production would give the following guesstimate breakdown of '69 Charger R/T SE production:

Total 440-4bbl, 4-speed Chargers w/ SE Option (3605 x 0.134) =   482
(Note: The SE option was not available on the Hemi R/T)

So it's likely there were fewer than 500 4-speed R/T SE's ever made.  If you've got one with a rare color, then it becomes a 1 of 25 or less.

Again, I'm sorry but you can't assume the same percentages and apply them across models. There is no way to know what percentage of R/Ts were ordered with the SE option. They could have been ordered in a much higher or much lower percentage than non R/T's. There is no proof one way or the other. You also cannot include colors. That's really stretching credibility. The best answer is still "we don't know because no factory documentation exists..."

Of course I wasn't implying that is the written record, or that the percentages exactly apply to the R/T production (if you read carefully, I called it a guesstimate).  I was just having some fun with the numbers, and there is no arguing it is a rare combination, regardless of color or whatever else.  Sheesh!  Have some fun with it already!

[1969chargerrtse]

Only about 13.4% of non-R/Ts (9240 of 69142) were ordered with the new for 1969 Special Edition (SE) option code A47.  Applying that percentage to R/T production would give the following guesstimate breakdown of '69 Charger R/T SE production:

Total 440-4bbl, 4-speed Chargers w/ SE Option (3605 x 0.134) =   482
(Note: The SE option was not available on the Hemi R/T)

So it's likely there were fewer than 500 4-speed R/T SE's ever made.  If you've got one with a rare color, then it becomes a 1 of 25 or less.

Again, I'm sorry but you can't assume the same percentages and apply them across models. There is no way to know what percentage of R/Ts were ordered with the SE option. They could have been ordered in a much higher or much lower percentage than non R/T's. There is no proof one way or the other. You also cannot include colors. That's really stretching credibility. The best answer is still "we don't know because no factory documentation exists..."

Of course I wasn't implying that is the written record, or that the percentages exactly apply to the R/T production (if you read carefully, I called it a guesstimate).  I was just having some fun with the numbers, and there is no arguing it is a rare combination, regardless of color or whatever else.  Sheesh!  Have some fun with it already!

   Yeah, been there done that.  He aint buging, but I'm with you.

[Ghoste]

There is a very high probability that I am wrong here because it has been a long time since I was able to look over someone's shoulder at a Ward's Report (I am vigorously trying to obtain one of my own to answer the "number with vinyl tops" question from a few months back), BUT... my murky memory tells me that the percentage of an option is applied through an entire car line.  That is to say, if your 13.4% of Chargers with the SE option is correct, I believe it is meant to apply to all Chargers for that year and does not break it down between RT and base model.
Again though, I could be wrong.

[GATOR MC KLUSKY]

O.K. I have the Woodgrain stuff inside. The holes for the SE Emblems were there, and the emblems were in the trunk. (I bought my Charger fresh "painted" and partly disassembled) It used to be a light green F3 or was it called? It used to have a vinyl top. The olde '91 California title says Charger R/T as does the Vin numbers. Engine is a genuine 440 Magnum '69. Haven't found the number where I can identify if it is matching numbers.
Then there is sth. strange. When I got the car the tunnel was cut open and u could see the trans. I don't know why. And the strange thing is, that in the trunk there is the original hump for the 4 speed in the same green color. We did weld it in. It wasn't exacly matching, but did cover the hole good. The hump was kind of cut out with a "metal knife" (Sorry bad English) or hammered out where the welding spots were.
The hole in the ground looked like grinded smooth then. hmmmm. Maybe somebody did this, to get to the shifting mechanism, or side of the tranny? There is also a pistol grip shifter that is not orignial for 69. Maybe they wanted to install this, and were just stupid!

Are there any other things to look at, that tell if it is an original 4 speed, or not? How does the area look like wherer the cluch pedal "turn around" (sorry bad english again) under the left front fender is? Mine looks torched out and welded like south african engeneering..... ;-) But I have seen stuff like this on Fords and Chevys before that was stock. Mopar I'm not so up to date.

I will make some pictures these days.

[RAC95054]

Does your car have the what looks to be the original rear end (based on the numbers stamped on it, that is)?  If so, and it's a Dana, then it makes it more likely it could be a 4-speed.  If it has 4:10 gears, though, it could have still come with that on an auto as part of the Super Track Pack.

[tan top]

Does your car have the what looks to be the original rear end (based on the numbers stamped on it, that is)?  If so, and it's a Dana, then it makes it more likely it could be a 4-speed.  If it has 4:10 gears, though, it could have still come with that on an auto as part of the Super Track Pack.

did'nt DANA equiped cars have different rear axle bump stops also ! (bigger ) 

[69rtse4spd]

 All S.E.s came with the three speed wipers also, but having an original 69 R/T S.E. 4-speed 4.10 Track Pack car, mine has the two speed wiper motor in it. This could be an R/T only thing as I have seen other R/Ts with them. I don't think someone would or could put a two speed in place of a three speed motor, but never say never. I also had heard that around 619 were produced, is Y2 a rare color with black top & interior.  . You can break them down as far as you want to get to a 1 of 25 or 1 of 5, or what ever, in the end as long as you are happy with what you have just enjoy it. I always wanted a 69 4-speed car since my brother had one in the 70s, ( dark blue,  white strip black interior 4-speed ) got one & I love it, even though its been sitting in barn since I drove it out there. 

[GATOR MC KLUSKY]

Does your car have the what looks to be the original rear end (based on the numbers stamped on it, that is)?  If so, and it's a Dana, then it makes it more likely it could be a 4-speed.  If it has 4:10 gears, though, it could have still come with that on an auto as part of the Super Track Pack.

Thanks, no it is not a Dana. It is the 8 3/4.

[GATOR MC KLUSKY]

All S.E.s came with the three speed wipers also, but having an original 69 R/T S.E. 4-speed 4.10 Track Pack car, mine has the two speed wiper motor in it. This could be an R/T only thing as I have seen other R/Ts with them. I don't think someone would or could put a two speed in place of a three speed motor, but never say never. I also had heard that around 619 were produced, is Y2 a rare color with black top & interior.  . You can break them down as far as you want to get to a 1 of 25 or 1 of 5, or what ever, in the end as long as you are happy with what you have just enjoy it. I always wanted a 69 4-speed car since my brother had one in the 70s, ( dark blue,  white strip black interior 4-speed ) got one & I love it, even though its been sitting in barn since I drove it out there. 

Yes, I like my car, and it will end up dark green with no vinyl top, when I don't find out more about it. I was just curious if it is a real 4 Speed.

Thanks to all!

I hope my camera is workin' again, then I will post more pictures.

[tan top]

  would love to see any pictures of your  R/T SE  chargers Guys  sometime  !! 4 speed or 727   

[hemigeno]

All S.E.s came with the three speed wipers also

J25 3-speed wipers were never a part of Sales Code A47 Special Edition package.  It may have been a common combination to be ordered, but was definitely not mandatory.  There's also no correlation between an R/T and having 2-speed wipers either...  J25 was just another option that needed to be checked off to be added - unless it was a Hemicar in which case it came standard for air cleaner clearance.