Is it just me or does the design of certain streets actually promote road rage?

[bull]

Sure, there's no excuse for road rage but have you ever wondered what genius designed certain streets, interesections, on ramp/off ramp clusters? I see so many of them that seem to actually promote aggressive driving and confrontations. So why does the finger of blame always get pointed at the drivers when the design of the streets is at least party to blame?

Examples within a few miles of my house:

1. The freeway on ramp to westbound I-84 is a funnel for both northbound and southbound traffic into one lane. The northbound on ramp has yield signs that are routinely ignored which has caused collisions and many close calls.

2. A road that goes southbound from here Ts off at a traffic light and there are two turn lanes but get this, to get to one of those two lanes to go eastbound you have to be in the left lane because the right lane is right turn only at the light. The second left turn lane doesn't appear until roughly 50 yards prior to the light which has created a mad-dash scenario around slower drivers. Then, once you've made the turn from the left turn lane it's another two lane mad dash to get into the right lane to do it all over again at the next light to go south.

3. Washington state especially is notorious for putting freeway on ramps and off ramps in the same lane so you must change lanes to the right to get on the freeway while someone coming off the freeway must change lanes to the left to exit.

4. There are several streets in my area that are two lanes at the stop light and go down to one lane on the other side. So when the light turns green you either have to gun it and race to get in front of or behind the guy next to you or take it easy and get cut off by as many as three people trying to get the holeshot.

Am I the only one annoyed by the way certain streets breed confrontations?

[elacruze]

 

[ZSmithersCharges]

We have a couple of such roads here in Ohio.  You must have had a bad driving day today, because thats normally when I notice how poor our roads are too   Tell us what happened! Don't be shy

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Welcome to my world Curtis here in NYC......

[Black Charger]

One of my biggest pet peeves is concrete medians. Here in Springfield, there are certain businesses that simply cannot be accessed from both sides of the street, one of which is an emergency medical clinic. My question is: What does a big, ugly and obstructive piece of concrete do that yellow lines painted on the roadway wouldn't accomplish? There is a gas station down the street from my house that I rarely go to simply because it's such a pain in the ass to get in and out of, thanks to a big concrete median.

[elacruze]

My question is: What does a big, ugly and obstructive piece of concrete do that yellow lines painted on the roadway wouldn't accomplish?

You've never driven in Miami, have you?

[b5blue]

Or Tampa's malfunction junction! If I ever won the lottery I would buy and over-insure a C body, build a 440 from hell, and have some fun! 

[elacruze]

Or Tampa's malfunction junction! If I ever won the lottery I would buy and over-insure a C body, build a 440 from hell, and have some fun! 

Maybe everybody could do that...quietly at home...then meet in a random city, and have a Blues Brothers Festival!! Then abandon the cars and do it again next year...

[b5blue]

I can just see it!    Later we could scrape BMW's and Honda's off our bumpers like bugs.

[tricky lugnuts]

It actually does - and it's not just roads. If you look at the layout of vast segments of our nation, crappy design and limited forethought leads to stress and inefficient outputs in countless situations.

One example that always bothered me: Why do we use fresh, treated potable water (a very valuable commodity in most of the world) to defecate in?

I realize no one wants dirty or unsightly water sitting in their toilet bowls, but shouldn't boundless human ingenuity be able to come up with some sterile solution that could be flushed and re-treated and replenished through toilet bowls of America, so that we weren't slowly cycling all of our future drinking water through our toilets first? California wants to tell you when and how you can wash your car, or how long you can shower or run the dishwater, all the while crapping and pissing in perfectly good water and flushing it off the local wastewater treatment plant. It seems like WASHING something is a much better use of water than just pissing in it, but the distinction apparently goes over the head of earth loving Californians hell bent on saving this planet and our natural resources...

Of course, a little forethought would have made the laying out the infrastructure for such a thing much simpler in the first place...

Instead, we all crap in our water before we drink in it, and drive ourselves mad (wasting gas, shortening our lives with higher stress levels) on roads that were never designed to support such heavy loads. I can't remember the last estimate of wasted gasoline and hours of time spent stuck in traffic, but it is a large amount.

Of course, the alternative is central economic planning...

[bull]

Tell us what happened! Don't be shy

Nothing has happened as in road rage but I deal with one or more of these streets almost daily. It just gets frustrating to me knowing that a daily traffic standoff is almost always inevitible. Especially when most of the trouble could have been avoided with simple design changes.

[b5blue]

On the toilet thing look into "gray water" recycling. Forced to find a new job I targeted the V.A. 2 miles from my home, my temp gauge barely starts to move by the time I park it. Never have I understood people who commute vast distances and spend hours a day driving. (yet I've already met some who drive 90 some odd miles a day there....and the V.A. provides van pools they do not use!)

[bull]

On the toilet thing look into "gray water" recycling. Forced to find a new job I targeted the V.A. 2 miles from my home, my temp gauge barely starts to move by the time I park it. Never have I understood people who commute vast distances and spend hours a day driving. (yet I've already met some who drive 90 some odd miles a day there....and the V.A. provides van pools they do not use!)

I would do that too if my workplace wasn't on the edge of what the locals call "Felony Flats." As it is my commute is 10 miles one way which isn't too bad. But I work with guys who drive 50-70 miles one way and force themselves to work graveyard shift so they can stand the commute.

[b5blue]

I was lucky to get hired right when I did, they called a week later and offered a position for 7.00 an hour more but it was temp (1-2 year contract with a restriction after of a 1 year hold off to work again) I stuck with the permanent position (after a year "probation period") for less money but security of future. My last job required driving to wherever the job site was and most averaged 10-15 one way, a few hit 25 one way and I lost a small fortune in extra time and expenses for no more money. Traffic here can be insane on the bridges between Tampa and St. Pete and some of the main roads are just as you pointed out, add unfamiliar tourists and really old farts who love to impede the flow by rubber necking and creeping along in the fast lane or inter states and rage rules the road for AM and PM rush hours. Having the power to pass when needed and keep the NASCAR driving SUV's and Minivans from constantly cutting you off was sorely missed for years while my Charger waited for the 440 rebuild. I LOVE being 2 minutes from the front gate of my job.     

[ChgrSteve67]

What I don't understand is that here we are 30+ years after the gas crisses of the 70s and none of the signal lights are timed in order to allow smooth traffic flow, better fuel economy and less wear and tear on my car when traveling across town or anyware else. I think there are only 2 streets in down town Sacramento that have any level of synronization.

The road that goes from one major freeway to another (about 5 or 6 miles) has no less than 12 traffic signals.
You would be lucky to make it throught two intersections on a green light.

All of them are computerized lights with Wi-Fi anteanas yet none of them are syncronized.

It should only take 7 or 8 minutes to get from one freeway to the other but you consider yourself lucky of you can do it in under 15 minutes. God help you if your running late for work in the morning. The on ramps to the freeway will take you 30 minutes to get through if the meetering lights are on.

At night (after 8pm) if I have to go into work it takes 15 minutes to get there. Durring daylight (5:30AM) it takes me 45 minutes to an hour. If its 8AM to 8:30AM its a good 1 hr 15 min to 1 hr 30 min.  BTW I live 13 miles from work.

I have a friend who works in the Bay Area and he has 3 hr 30 min commute each way. (fricken insane)

I keep praying to win the lottery so I can retire.

[elacruze]

The problem with American roads is American drivers. We are a selfish discourteous lot. Germany has very few traffic devices compared to the U.S., and their traffic even where very heavy never stops moving. When somebody needs room, they give a little. If they don't need to, they don't jam in front of you. It's just our American Me-First attitude that causes the problems. The roads could have had better designs, but Europe by and large gets along without rage on roads that were designed for horses.

[Ghoste]

I know you said "by and large", but I still can't help thinking about traffic circles in France.  There is a very good reason why so many of their cars are dented all over the sides.
That said, I can also add that three lane highways in Europe are not treated as three passing lanes by people who think they are racing.  Lane discipline and passing etiquette are well followed there.

[bull]

The problem with American roads is American drivers. We are a selfish discourteous lot. Germany has very few traffic devices compared to the U.S., and their traffic even where very heavy never stops moving. When somebody needs room, they give a little. If they don't need to, they don't jam in front of you. It's just our American Me-First attitude that causes the problems. The roads could have had better designs, but Europe by and large gets along without rage on roads that were designed for horses.

I agree for the most part, although I can't really speak to traffic patterns in different countries (except Mexico, where it's chaotic at best). I can't count how many times I've tried to get on the freeway (after sitting at one of those idiotic metering lights ChgrSteve just mentioned) only to have my entry blocked by someone with tunnel-vision doing 50 mph who won't move over. They usually don't even bother to acknowledge your existence. And I hate the "I'm on my own schedule so screw you" attitude so many people have. The idea of a road, a freeway especially, is to get somewhere. IMO that means going with the flow of traffic, staying out of the way, etc. People do things behind the wheel they wouldn't do anywhere else. If these people acted like this in a restaurant or post office there would be fights there too.

[ChgrSteve67]

It cost a hell of a lot more to drive in other countries than in the US so you don't find near as many people on the roads except near/in the cities where there are rarely more than 2 or three lanes going in the same direction.

Also most people in other countries walk or take public transprotation to get to work each day. Not something most people that live in the US are willing to do. If I had to take the bus to work it would take me three hours to get to work. Hell every other block has a bus stop. If I took a taxi every day to work and back I could have a new Challenger SRT8 paid for in no time.

Remember the US is an enourmous coutry compared to others.

Most people in the US don't live near thier place of work so of course everyone is on the road durring rush hour traffic.

And they will give a drivers license to anyone in the US as long as you have insurance. If if you don't those people just drive anyways.

[ZSmithersCharges]

Nothing has happened as in road rage but I deal with one or more of these streets almost daily. It just gets frustrating to me knowing that a daily traffic standoff is almost always inevitible. Especially when most of the trouble could have been avoided with simple design changes.

Well it's a good thing nothing did! Just wondered what finally snapped that made you post. The roads being described here are everywhere.  I haven't seen a "new" road design for as long as I've been in Cincinnati yet they always have lanes closed for construction anyways.  Its somewhat baffling that we spend all this money fixing the roads but don't really change anything.

[bull]

Well it's a good thing nothing did! Just wondered what finally snapped that made you post. The roads being described here are everywhere.  I haven't seen a "new" road design for as long as I've been in Cincinnati yet they always have lanes closed for construction anyways.  Its somewhat baffling that we spend all this money fixing the roads but don't really change anything.

No snapping. Just wanted to vent some I guess. Maybe I'm getting old and cranky but all these people who believe in evolution must not interact with the same people I do every day. For all our efforts to allegedly improve the way things are done the results seem to fly more in the face of common sense now more than ever.

[elacruze]

I know you said "by and large", but I still can't help thinking about traffic circles in France.  There is a very good reason why so many of their cars are dented all over the sides.
That said, I can also add that three lane highways in Europe are not treated as three passing lanes by people who think they are racing.  Lane discipline and passing etiquette are well followed there.

I forgot about France. I generally don't think of France when I think of Europe. I generally don't think of France at all.

[stripedelete]

The problem with American roads is American drivers. We are a selfish discourteous lot. Germany has very few traffic devices compared to the U.S., and their traffic even where very heavy never stops moving. When somebody needs room, they give a little. If they don't need to, they don't jam in front of you. It's just our American Me-First attitude that causes the problems. The roads could have had better designs, but Europe by and large gets along without rage on roads that were designed for horses.

Yep. 

I don't believe the design causes road rage.   However, I do believe that there should be some engineers behind bars for manslaughter. 

[ZSmithersCharges]

Maybe I'm getting old and cranky but all these people who believe in evolution must not interact with the same people I do every day.

This had me laughing pretty good. Thanks for that  The sad thing is you couldn't be more correct.  I have not had a day that I can recall where I have run into more intelligent people than people who need to go hit the books and stop watching the boob tube.  That or go find themselves a hobby to interest and challenge themselves with.  That's why I come on forums in the first place!  It is my escape to intelligent people who want to talk with other like minded individuals.  Now, if we could only convince our elected officials to allow us to take over all of the state road and expressway planning we would really be in the green.

[tricky lugnuts]

Insert Quote
What I don't understand is that here we are 30+ years after the gas crisses of the 70s and none of the signal lights are timed in order to allow smooth traffic flow, better fuel economy and less wear and tear on my car when traveling across town or anyware else. I think there are only 2 streets in down town Sacramento that have any level of synronization.

This can make a significant difference in driving times, number of red lights, accidents, etc.

In one city where I lived, it used to take five or six red lights to go about two miles down a main stretch of road through town.

The city hired a traffic engineering consultant and synchronized all the lights and then it was rare if you hit one... The time to drive that stretch was more than halved, I believe, and it only cost a few thousand dollars - say $20K or $30K. They'll recoup that in gas savings and accident response savings in probably less than six months...

Unfortunately, the haven't moved on to any of the other roads...

LMAO about the evolution bit. You'd think, after a century of automobiles, that the idiots would have killed themselves off by now. Daily experiences do suggest otherwise.

If you don't think design, or lack thereof, causes road rage, and accidents at the least, apparently you've never caught the long red light after midnight, when you have to sit there for five minutes and not a single car passes in the other direction... It could be a flashing red, but the traffic light, or whoever put it there, thinks you're too dumb to tell when you can or cannot proceed, even on virtually deserted streets.

Or you've never got stuck in a four-lane corridor full of entries and exits with backed up traffic and lights every 800 feet and No Right Turns in one place and No Left Turns in another place, or concrete medians that force you to drive miles out of your way only to turn around, because you couldn't make a left turn where you needed to...

Or almost been annihilated trying to merge onto an expressway with 200 foot on ramps and a wall of steel rushing towards you at 80 mph with no spare lane for traffic to slowly merge in...

The list could go on and on.

Try driving through downtown Chicago sometime on 80-90. Let me know how that design works out for you.

The other issue here that no one has mentioned is sprawl, and what it does to force people into their cars, a sometimes aggravating thing, in the first place.