In America it's English, learn it.

[ZSmithersCharges]

This thread is all over the place  

English
Teaching
Politicians
and now Drugs

Where to next?  We could go back to illegal immigration  

I will agree with boycotting drugs but the problem is it is easy for us "clean" people to do.  How do you get a bunch of addicts to just put the needle down?  I would love to think they would do it for their own good but I'm not so sure that's possible.

Legalizing is one idea sort of how overseas the drinking age is 16 in some places so it's not so much of a big deal as it is here so it takes some of the hype away.  But it would be at least a couple generations until the hype of it being legal died down.  Which would stunt an already stumbling country as far as the economy is concerned at a very bad time.  Particularly while a lot of people are depressed making it more likely they will abuse.

Heavy penalties with public punishment might work?  I talked to a guy from Singapore(IIRC) where they still give you public lashings for acting disorderly and he said it worked quite well there.  Selling people on that idea may be a little hard though  

I think we should all just quit our jobs and become Pirates.  Nah, I don't think that would solve anything either but at least the fun meter would be spiked at 10  

[Todd Wilson]

I think we should all just quit our jobs and become Pirates.  Nah, I don't think that would solve anything either but at least the fun meter would be spiked at 10  

naaa you'd get shot by the Navy then! HAHA!   I think we should all quit our jobs and drink 40's on the porch all day waiting on Yobama to send us our checks!


Todd

[ZSmithersCharges]

naaa you'd get shot by the Navy then! HAHA!   I think we should all quit our jobs and drink 40's on the porch all day waiting on Yobama to send us our checks!


Todd

I don't know if you've seen this but that just reminded me of this little clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI If only she was right 

[Tilar]

I think we should all just quit our jobs and become Pirates.  Nah, I don't think that would solve anything either but at least the fun meter would be spiked at 10  

naaa you'd get shot by the Navy then! HAHA!   I think we should all quit our jobs and drink 40's on the porch all day waiting on Yobama to send us our checks!


Todd

  The speaker of the house agrees with you too... She said now that we have healthcare the government has our backs and that we can all quit our jobs and go freelance and do whatever we wanted... She didn't explain the mortgage and meals though. 

I think we should all just quit our jobs and become Pirates.  Nah, I don't think that would solve anything either but at least the fun meter would be spiked at 10 

That does sound like fun! I'm just not sure of the "shooting back" part.

[Mike DC]

 
Our drug laws aren't made to help our whole society.  It's not historically normal for a country to keep such a significant percentage of its population incarcerated like this.  It's happening because a private industry (the for-profit prisons) is profiting from it.  They're the ones lobbying to keep the mandatory sentences high and fighting alternatives like increasing the rehabilitation programs.


Drug legalization means companies like the big tobacco industry will start pushing coke & weed on our 10yo kids instead of cigarettes.  Not good.  IMHO we need to de-criminalize drugs but absolutely not legalize them. 

 

[bull]

No, I don't think it is our job entirely. But I think our time, money and effort could be better spent helping the Mexicans take their own country back rather than housing them here.

"NAFTA"

No, I wasn't thinking of jobs or shoring up their economy. I was thinking a large war on drugs that takes place in Mexico complete with F22s, Blackhawks, etc. Usually you've got to break some eggs to make an omelette.

[bull]

 
  IMHO we need to de-criminalize drugs but absolutely not legalize them. 
 

So basically it becomes like illegal immigration? It's illegal but you don't get in any trouble for it? I don't understand the concept.

[Ponch ®]

I was thinking a large war on drugs that takes place in Mexico complete with F22s, Blackhawks, etc. Usually you've got to break some eggs to make an omelette.

F22's and blackhawks haven't done much against a bunch of guys on camels and armed with IEDs....

[bull]

I was thinking a large war on drugs that takes place in Mexico complete with F22s, Blackhawks, etc. Usually you've got to break some eggs to make an omelette.

F22's and blackhawks haven't done much against a bunch of guys on camels and armed with IEDs....

What makes you say that? I haven't heard that we lost the war, even on CNN.

[Ghoste]

Don't kid yourself about the level of sophistication about that "bunch of guys on camels" either.  Agreed that many of them are barely trained fanatics that are just willing to give their life for the cause but that part of the world received a lot of high tech weaponry and combat training from both the US and the USSR not too very long ago.
(not that I'm too convinced about the effectiveness of a war on drugs either-we've tried "temperance" in the past both here and in other cultures and people seem to have a lot of ingenuity when it comes to getting messed up)

[THE STIG]

Actually Columbus was Spanish, so technically the USA should be a Spanish speaking nation.

I am an Immigrant and British to boot, However I like the fact that English was chosen by the founding fathers, at least they didnt pick French !!

Actually Columbus was Italian, his expidition was financed by the Spanish crown

[chargergirl]

There are many in this country that couldn't tell you who's who. Most are concerned with where their next good time is coming from than they are with who is running the country...those upset that they will not be elected this time around should have listened to the part of the country that is truly paying attention...cause we vote even when we have to walk to the busline to get there.

[Ponch ®]

I was thinking a large war on drugs that takes place in Mexico complete with F22s, Blackhawks, etc. Usually you've got to break some eggs to make an omelette.

F22's and blackhawks haven't done much against a bunch of guys on camels and armed with IEDs....

What makes you say that? I haven't heard that we lost the war, even on CNN.

I don't think we've lost or won...but what I'm saying is that it isn't the F22's and all that stuff that's helping us. It's the guys down on the ground...and do we really wanna send more of our boys into a combat zone? Using F-22's and Blackhawks against 'insurgents' or drug lords is like going after a huge ant colony with a M16....you're gonna get a few and kill em good, but it's not really gonna get rid of them.

Besides, whatever you think of Mexico, it is still a sovereign nation...what makes you think they'd want our military on their soil? We wouldn't want some foreign army coming into American soil even if its on the pretext that they're trying to help us, would we? Despite what many of you think, beneath all the occasional trash talking about gringos (it's a cultural thing), Mexicans do have a lot of respect for the USA. But if all of a sudden they feel we're threatening them and their sovereignty, they WILL go all "insurgent" on our asses and we'll have another IED and car bomb wonderland like Iraq/Afghanistan on our hands...right next door.

And there's no way in hell we can or should start handing F22's over to the Mexican Air Force...

[ACUDANUT]

 In Mexico it's Spanish....Learn it...WHY NOT HERE. ?

[Tilar]

I was thinking a large war on drugs that takes place in Mexico complete with F22s, Blackhawks, etc. Usually you've got to break some eggs to make an omelette.

F22's and blackhawks haven't done much against a bunch of guys on camels and armed with IEDs....

  Ponch +1

[chargerboy69]

Besides, whatever you think of Mexico, it is still a sovereign nation...what makes you think they'd want our military on their soil? We wouldn't want some foreign army coming into American soil even if its on the pretext that they're trying to help us, would we?

I hope you know the Mexican Military has been crossing our border for years.  Of course our government, no matter who is in office, will ever say sh!t about it either, it is all political.  They do not want to piss off the Hispanic community. And neither side will not do one fu#%ing thing because they both want the votes to ensure they remain in control.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ipFuOIBrUw

[Ponch ®]

Besides, whatever you think of Mexico, it is still a sovereign nation...what makes you think they'd want our military on their soil? We wouldn't want some foreign army coming into American soil even if its on the pretext that they're trying to help us, would we?

I hope you know the Mexican Military has been crossing our border for years.  Of course our government, no matter who is in office, will ever say sh!t about it either, it is all political.  They do not want to piss off the Hispanic community. And neither side will not do one fu#%ing thing because they both want the votes to ensure they remain in control.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ipFuOIBrUw

If they are, they are doing so illegally. But it's one thing to have some corrupt or too eager general cross the border (I'm sure we do it too) chasing bad guys, it's another to send an entire army down there as a matter of national policy.

[Mike DC]

So basically it becomes like illegal immigration? It's illegal but you don't get in any trouble for it? I don't understand the concept.

No, not like illegall immigration.  Illegal immigration is still moderately criminalized.  The problem is that there is absolutely no enforcement.


I mean we should reduce the punishments for drugs in court, not reduce the enforcement.  Getting caught with (small amounts of) pot should get you the equivalent of a traffic ticket instead of a potential jail sentence.  It shouldn't get you felonies and all kinds of other serious crap like that.  It shouldn't be reason to get you humiliated at work and get a criminal record.  If you're on parole for something else it shouldn't get your parole revoked.  

We should still be seriously punishing the bigger fish in the drug industry pool, but not the users & lowest-level traffickers so much.




The parole thing  is a major way that drug laws keep people in jail even when the drug punishments themselves are theoretically not that heavy.  

Let's say Joe commits a crime worthy of about 2 years in the clink.  The judge sentences him to 5 years because he has to.  (If the judge had actually sentenced Joe to 2 years then he knows Joe would be out in 6 months.)   So the judge calls it 5 years knows Joe will doubtlessly be out in 2 years as long as he behaves.  So Joe goes to jail & behaves and gets out in 2.  Then a month after his release, Joe gets pulled over & busted with a nickelbag of weed.  A person with no record would only get a minor punishment for a little bag of weed but not Joe.  Now Joe has violated his parole and he's back in jail for 3 more years.    

This is not just a theoretical complication.  This scenaro is playing out all over the country with literally thousands of people every year.  We let rapists & murderers go free early because the system is so overcrowded with this crap.

   

[Ponch ®]

  Then a month after his release, Joe gets pulled over & busted with a nickelbag of weed.  A person with no record would only get a minor punishment for a little bag of weed but not Joe.  Now Joe has violated his parole and he's back in jail for 3 more years.    

This is not just a theoretical complication.  This scenaro is playing out all over the country with literally thousands of people every year.  We let rapists & murderers go free early because the system is so overcrowded with this crap.

 

and because of that $20 bag of weed, now the state has to spend $20-45K a year to keep Joe healthy and fed while he's in the pen.

[ZSmithersCharges]

Now Joe has violated his parole and he's back in jail for 3 more years.

Don't forget the the additional charge!  The three years is just for the remainder of his original sentence so Joe's in for even longer than that.  Even longer if the judge wants to "make an example out of him".

[hemi68charger]

I was thinking a large war on drugs that takes place in Mexico complete with F22s, Blackhawks, etc. Usually you've got to break some eggs to make an omelette.

F22's and blackhawks haven't done much against a bunch of guys on camels and armed with IEDs....

  Ponch +1

Do-gooders would have us continue with warfare like it always has.. Times have changed.. The enemy has changed.. They can covertly blend in with the rest of the local population and forces of integrity wear uniforms. If we knew where the enemy was, we'd blow their butt out of the water.... But, alas, that's not the case and we try to be as careful as possible. Collateral damage and deaths do occur, but, the blame needs to be placed squarely on the enemy for putting these poor people in harm's way.....

[RD]

It seems, that due to our ancestors desire to get land, all they needed to do was annex all of mexico.  spain wouldnt have minded, and really the border between mexico and guatemala/belize is a heckuva lot shorter than our current one.  it would have been easier to patrol

but, even though some provinces in mexico contemplated petitioning the U.S. for statehood after the mexican-american war, Calhoun made sure it didnt happen (see quote).  Imagine how different our country would be today if (and I am only saying if for a means of contemplation) the mexican provinces were granted statehood?

Senator John C. Calhoun of South Carolina, who had approved of the annexation of Texas, was opposed to the annexation of Mexico, as well as the "mission" aspect of Manifest Destiny, for racial reasons. He made these views clear in a speech to Congress on January 4, 1848:

   [W]e have never dreamt of incorporating into our Union any but the Caucasian race—the free white race. To incorporate Mexico, would be the very first instance of the kind, of incorporating an Indian race; for more than half of the Mexicans are Indians, and the other is composed chiefly of mixed tribes. I protest against such a union as that! Ours, sir, is the Government of a white race.... We are anxious to force free government on all; and I see that it has been urged ... that it is the mission of this country to spread civil and religious liberty over all the world, and especially over this continent. It is a great mistake.

Irrelevant in the whole picture of things and not really relevant to this thread, but it is something to ponder on.

[Ghoste]

Interestingly some of Calhoun's fiery speeches in support of slavery had the side effect of polarizing the opinions which led to the Civil War.  When I think of Calhoun in the context you place I can't help but contemplate that had the Mexican proposal been not for statehood but for an invasion in order to take the land and put the indigent population there to "work", he'd have been more sympathetic to the cause.

[chargergirl]

Interestingly some of Calhoun's fiery speeches in support of slavery had the side effect of polarizing the opinions which led to the Civil War.  When I think of Calhoun in the context you place I can't help but contemplate that had the Mexican proposal been not for statehood but for an invasion in order to take the land and put the indigent population there to "work", he'd have been more sympathetic to the cause.

He would have given the orders himself if he could. Sometimes we forget how odd our forefathers could be.

[RD]

Interestingly some of Calhoun's fiery speeches in support of slavery had the side effect of polarizing the opinions which led to the Civil War.  When I think of Calhoun in the context you place I can't help but contemplate that had the Mexican proposal been not for statehood but for an invasion in order to take the land and put the indigent population there to "work", he'd have been more sympathetic to the cause.

He would have given the orders himself if he could. Sometimes we forget how odd our forefathers could be.

lol, odd is a very good word.. i would have said criminal hehehe