In America it's English, learn it.

[elacruze]

Oh boy.

The U.S. Educational system is JUNK.

Who else builds $26 Million dollar school buildings, and fills them with $26,000 a year teachers?

I learned just fine in a 50 year old building. I didn't have a computer on every desk, and a bigscreen TV on the wall, and a big Gym full of workout equipment for the football team.
The Educational system has become parasitic. They are more concerned with Administrator salaries, student count, revenue, and attractiveness to new homeowners than actually teaching useful curriculum.
A hundred years ago, an 8th grader could pencil out the amortization on a farm loan. Does anybody teach that now?

Done here.

[RD]

As noted, many Immigrants go their entire lives within the US, even as Citizens, without knowing any English. Your point is taken, there is no demand that you learn other languages. The point is just as valid that immigrants have no demand to learn English. They seem to get along just fine without it. Should they learn English merely for your convenience?

My point is not that you or the US doesn't care about the rest of the world-obviously we do-my point is that we do not care enough about OURSELVES. WE cannot compete on equal footing with such a narrow worldview.

if i decided to move to France, do you think the French would be happy that I expected them to speak my language for the rest of my stay there, or would you think they would want me to learn theirs?

me, I would learn theirs as that is their country.  It is called common decency and respect for another host country's culture.

And to answer your question, YES.  The immigrants should learn our language because it is for the convenience of this country.  I never did say they should speak english everywhere, but they should at least have a working knowledge of the language and not expect those that speak english to learn theirs because they are to fricken lazy to learn the official language of the host country.  NOT my fault they came to a country without a working knowledge of the official language, but by damned they should at least attempt with more than "no speaky english".

[RD]

My point is not that you or the US doesn't care about the rest of the world-obviously we do-my point is that we do not care enough about OURSELVES. WE cannot compete on equal footing with such a narrow worldview.

to say that because the majority of the U.S. citizens do not speak another language means we have a narrow worldview is obtuse, misleading, and dramatic.  That makes no sense whatsoever.  You are blatantly judging U.S. citizens on their overall concern, knowledge, and interaction with the global economy, other societies and cultures, or world events solely because they do not speak a second language other than english.

Oh boy.

The U.S. Educational system is JUNK.

Who else builds $26 Million dollar school buildings, and fills them with $26,000 a year teachers?

The people in the school district vote for the building to be built, it just isnt voted on as there has to be public funding of any building project in regards to the increase of mill levy's, special financing, or monies from the government.  A district just doesnt decide to build without the approval of the taxpayers who vote for or against construction.  It is not the school, its the taxpayers in which you should shake your finger.  not the schools.

I learned just fine in a 50 year old building. I didn't have a computer on every desk, and a bigscreen TV on the wall, and a big Gym full of workout equipment for the football team.
The Educational system has become parasitic. They are more concerned with Administrator salaries, student count, revenue, and attractiveness to new homeowners than actually teaching useful curriculum.
A hundred years ago, an 8th grader could pencil out the amortization on a farm loan. Does anybody teach that now?

Done here.

I graduated in 1990.  I didnt have any of the stuff you claim and went to school in a 32 year old building that still stands today providing the shelter for the education of today's youth.  I did not have the things you suggested because THEY WERE NOT INVENTED YET.  I did have a big gym, a workout room, and a football team.  nuke my old school district then for doing what every school, even yours, has done since football became a high school sport back in the early 1900's.

Maybe where you are from the education system is shit, but where I am from the majority of the kids graduate and become productive citizens.  maybe it isnt the schools, but your neighborhoods and familial influences.

you all speak in a huge generalization of schools without considering the geographic location and income of the areas in which schools are located.  one size does not fit all in this case and to assume they do just means you have much to learn on the topic.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

LASTLY EDUCATION IS SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFERENT, SO IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT

PUT IT IN ANOTHER THREAD.

[elacruze]

Yeah, I pick lots of fights online and in real life. Particularly about Culture and Education.
I have forums and meetings for those so I'm going to re-segregate this forum back to it's intended place, CARS.

[RD]

Yeah, I pick lots of fights online and in real life. Particularly about Culture and Education.
I have forums and meetings for those so I'm going to re-segregate this forum back to it's intended place, CARS.

no problem, but this is off topic where we can discuss such topics, but the mainstay should be to keep them on topic.  if not, the whole intention of the thread becomes diluted and pointless.  which, sadly, this one has become.

[General_01]

whoa.. its not arrogance, I do not NEED to learn another language.  I don't, that is the truth.  There is nothing anyone from a different country can say that will make me believe I need to learn anything other than english.  Can I speak some spanish? yep.  Can I speak some french? Yep.  do i use either of those on a daily or weekly or even monthly basis? nope.

there are some that are in the united states that need to learn other languages, but the majority do not.  that is not arrogance, that is the simple truth and reality of it.  do not think that the majority of U.S. citizens failure to care or even want to learn another language is based upon arrogance because it is not, and to say it is arrogance is a blatant lie.

just because the majority of americans choose not to learn another language doesnt mean we do not care about the rest of the world.  that is a blatant lie.  The U.S. is the most charitable nation in the world.  argue me that and then say that because we choose not to learn your language we do not care.  If the hundreds of dollars I spend on charities each month, that are outside of the U.S., as well as the donations I give to those that are in the U.S. is all awash because I, and many other U.S. americans choose not to learn another language, then I guess I didnt care about those in Haiti, those in Somalia, those in Thailand, those in China, and all the other Christian organizations I pledge to.

Please do not assume my lack or desire to learn many different languages is because I DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE REST OF THE WORLD.  That will just piss me off.

If you never leave the U.S. to do business, then you only do business with those who come to the U.S. Necessarily, that means they are proactive and you are reactive-not the best way to do business, always on somebody else's terms. If you think that travelling to China and doing business in English is adequate, then you don't know Business nor the Chinese.

The World will not come to US forever. 

I do business with industries and companies that are located in the U.S.  They buy stuff from other countries.  Do I have to learn Polish when I am asking for distributor cap at O'Reillys?  Do I have to learn how to ask for a video game in Chinese at Wal-Mart because the game was made in China?  Do I have to learn how to speak German when I go to my BMW dealership and ask for spark plug wires?

NOPE.. I do not have to learn another language.  My country's companies and their representatives may have to, but it doesn't mean I have to.

As noted, many Immigrants go their entire lives within the US, even as Citizens, without knowing any English. Your point is taken, there is no demand that you learn other languages. The point is just as valid that immigrants have no demand to learn English. They seem to get along just fine without it. Should they learn English merely for your convenience?My point is not that you or the US doesn't care about the rest of the world-obviously we do-my point is that we do not care enough about OURSELVES. WE cannot compete on equal footing with such a narrow worldview.

They get along fine without it because this country makes every effort to accomadate them in their language. A chinese immigrant may go to a food store run by other Chinese immigrants and speak Chinese while they are there. I think the big question is why does the US government have to accomodate them? Why must they use my property tax dollars to teach immigrant children in their native language? Why does the drivers license test have to be printed up in 7 different languages? Why does almost any form of government document for that matter? I think this is the big question I have on the subject. I sometimes wonder if the same money we spend on the extra paperwork and extra personnel to accomadate those who don't speak English would cover the cost of paying each immigrant family $15,000 if they go to school for a year to learn basic English.

[Mike DC]

i totally disagree as I am IN this education system, as is my wife.  The education system is the BEST thing this government has to offer right now.  It is the only bureaucratic department that operates at increasingly stringent standards with less and less each year.  Between NCLB and other educational requirements, the education system has to stay tip top while maintaining a very hardline when it comes to expenditures.  You want to see streamlining and doing more with less... look at your education system.

If the rest of the government actually paid heed to the educational systems concept of doing more with less, instead of spending all they got so they do not lose any for next years budget, then this country would be way the hell better off then it currently is.

The curriculum I am in teaches algebra, geometry, algebra II, calculus (AP classes in each), earth science, physical science, biology I and II, chemistry I and II, physics I and II, english I and II, forensics, computers, business, FACS, industrial arts, physical fitness and health, and the list goes on.  the education is at the hands of the politicians who either vote for the funding or do not.

you want something that is broken, go there, not the education system.  you have the largest populace of professionals who get paid jack crap for their hard and long hours of work, but still do it because they love it.  that is not broken, that is what keeps it going.

I hope you don't take what I said as a personal attack on all the individuals working in the public school system.  I do not mean it that way.  Several members of my own family have taught in public schools.  My mother taught in a public high school for years.
     
But I still hold the opinion that I do.  Speaking in the VERY big picture, I think the system is in serious trouble.  It teaches a very outdated type of education.    


We are forcing elementary school kids to spend hours a day learning manual long-division in 2010.  We put teenagers in foreign language classes who are still functionally illiterate in their native english.  At the college level, we make students take hours and hours of classes which have no realistic relevance to their major and are not standard requirements of the general curriculum either.  The high school diploma has become nearly worthless in the job market compared to few generations ago.  After kids are kept in school 7 hours a day from age 6-17, employers still must demand a higher degree of schooling before assuming their employees can even read & write functionally.  

IMHO this situation is nuts.  The schools are filled with a lot of good people, working hard at getting good results, in a badly laid out system.  We need to start by asking ourselves what the education system is supposed to be doing at all.  Babysitting/daycare?  Social conditioning?  Teaching certain things just because they always have, regardless of the current world's needs?

[Nacho-RT74]

... STILL THINK... IS TRUE AND CORRECT everyone in USA must learn english, whatever language they choose to speak inside home, but english outside, like you if go to France learn french, Spain or any Latinamerican country, then learn Spanish... but a political use of that on a campaigne is wrong, that will pop up some segregation from some of the voters even if you don't want to seed that. The non english speaker must be incorporated in an english talk, from education, from the municipalities, from a friendly relation with neighbourghood. That's INTEGRATION...

to get some fanatism about anything you just need to throw from your mouth an idea and then the ppl will follow that idea from the "leader", no matter the results on the middle way ( specially unracional ppl )... is something that needs to handle with care with you are on publish life.

[hemi68charger]

... STILL THINK... IS TRUE AND CORRECT everyone in USA must learn english, whatever language they choose to speak inside home, but english outside, like you if go to France learn french, Spain or any Latinamerican country, then learn Spanish... but a political use of that on a campaigne is wrong, that will pop up some segregation from some of the voters even if you don't want to seed that. The non english speaker must be incorporated in an english talk, from education, from the municipalities, from a friendly relation with neighbourghood. That's INTEGRATION...

to get some fanatism about anything you just need to throw from your mouth an idea and then the ppl will follow that idea from the "leader", no matter the results on the middle way ( specially unracional ppl )... is something that needs to handle with care with you are on publish life.

Nacho,
I understand what you're saying to, but in a democracy, politics IS a way to express the desires of the people. People who run for political office have to express and communicate their positions so people can decide on who to vote for during elections to best support and promote their agendas at Washingtion DC. Immigration Reform is a majorly heated debate here in the USA and English is just one facet of the overall Immigration problem/situation. Not sure how things are run over there in Venezula being a government controlled by a Socialist Party, but it's not so cut-n-dry here. People have to first elect their leader........... In a country with such broad ethnic and socioeconomic backgrounds, there is going to be issues of conflict. When you take the opposite, countries that are of a ethnic majority, then those issues don't get raised.........  That's part of being part of the Human Global Village.......

[bull]

The problem with the political leadership these days is the emphasis has shifted from empowering people to enslaving them with victim mentality. It's no longer "Ask not what your country can do for you" it's ask what can the government do for you and then demand it. Vote for me and you'll get a free ride in life. Don't get me wrong, there should be help for those who are down and out, there should be opportunities available and there should be programs people can utilize to get back on their feet, start a business, whatever, but these things should not create dependence. They should be designed to create independence and they should be temporary and limited in scope. They should not foster an atmosphere where there is no motivation for people to improve their lives on their own. Without a certain amount of fear or consequence, whatever you want to call it, many people see no reason to progress. IMO creating a dependence on the government for minorities is the worst kind of racism; assuming certain types of people are just too dumb, subborn or lazy to succeed is pretty sick. No one deserves that kind of treatment.

[Mike DC]

The problem with the political leadership these days is the emphasis has shifted from empowering people to enslaving them with victim mentality. It's no longer "Ask not what your country can do for you" it's ask what can the government do for you and then demand it. Vote for me and you'll get a free ride in life. Don't get me wrong, there should be help for those who are down and out, there should be opportunities available and there should be programs people can utilize to get back on their feet, start a business, whatever, but these things should not create dependence. They should be designed to create independence and they should be temporary and limited in scope. They should not foster an atmosphere where there is no motivation for people to improve their lives on their own. Without a certain amount of fear or consequence, whatever you want to call it, many people see no reason to progress. IMO creating a dependence on the government for minorities is the worst kind of racism; assuming certain types of people are just too dumb, subborn or lazy to succeed is pretty sick. No one deserves that kind of treatment.

I don't see a lot of collective desire to create that motivation for people.  The minimum cost of living in the USA is unnecessarily big.

Talk about welfare?  That gets public attention, both for and against the idea.    
Minimum wage hikes?  Attention.  
Mandatory minimum prison terms?  Attention.  

Talk about the crazy lack of lower-income housing?  Or the falling value of a high school (read: free) education?  . . . . um, not very interesting.    



We're quick to get angry at the poor for not helping themselves, and we're quick to get angry at the govt for giving them money for nothing, but we're never very interested in making the poor's task closer to their reach.  It's much more difficult than it needs to be in the USA.   

[Ponch ®]

The problem with the political leadership these days is the emphasis has shifted from empowering people to enslaving them with victim mentality. It's no longer "Ask not what your country can do for you" it's ask what can the government do for you and then demand it. Vote for me and you'll get a free ride in life. Don't get me wrong, there should be help for those who are down and out, there should be opportunities available and there should be programs people can utilize to get back on their feet, start a business, whatever, but these things should not create dependence. They should be designed to create independence and they should be temporary and limited in scope. They should not foster an atmosphere where there is no motivation for people to improve their lives on their own. Without a certain amount of fear or consequence, whatever you want to call it, many people see no reason to progress. IMO creating a dependence on the government for minorities is the worst kind of racism; assuming certain types of people are just too dumb, subborn or lazy to succeed is pretty sick. No one deserves that kind of treatment.

It's not the government enslaving people with a "victim mentality" - it's people enslaving themselves with that mentality - and the government is just a reflection of that. Someone is always out to screw us and we're just the downtrodden. You lose your job and can't get hired anywhere because of your minimal qualifications/skills? It's the fault of those damn companies outsourcing jobs, not your fault for seeing the writing on the wall years ago and not getting your ass to night school.  Your business is going under?  Well, it's WalMart's fault for selling stuff too cheap, not yours for not setting up your business to be competitive.  Your kid's doing bad in school? It must be the indifferent teachers and the corrupt school administrators...not your fault for letting the kid stay up late watching TV (or maybe your kid is just stupid, your fault for getting drunk that night and not using a jimmy hat). Your house is getting foreclosed? It's those evil banks and their ARM's....not your fault for buying a house you couldn't really afford in the first place or for refinancing the hell out of it to pay for your sea doos and your trailer and your charger...

[Todd Wilson]

If I didnt have a job I could stay at home and drink 40's all day on the porch!





Todd

[bull]

I don't see a lot of collective desire to create that motivation for people.  The minimum cost of living in the USA is unnecessarily big.

Yes, I'm saying that's the problem. There should be a collective desire to foster an atmosphere where people can be motivated. Some people cannot be motivated unless there is an element of fear. The ones that want to motivated be are not a problem, it's the ones that need to be that are. And handing them everything they need to avoid work is not a solution. It creates a cycle of dependency and a lack of that fear some people need to get off their butts and make it happen. Sure it costs a lot to live here. The deck is stacked toward two-income families but I know dozens of people who can and do make it work, myself included. It's done by being responsible with the money. No, I don't have two car payments, no I don't have cable TV, no I can't cash out my 401k to finish the Charger, no my kids can't go to private school, no I can't buy a new pair of Levi's four times a year, etc. Big deal. How much of the crap out there do we really need? Very little.

I know more than one guy who came to this country with nothing, at least one of them is now a millionare. He was motivated by his own inner strength and fear. And I can understand a Mexican who wants to cross his northern border and make a better life for he and his family. I get that. But there's an accepted method and there are rules. What I don't understand is how they can say to hell with Mexico. If the US is going to do anything for them why not equip them to take back their own country and instill some national pride? I would think a couple million armed Mexican nationals, backed by the US military, could make quite a dent in the Mexican cartel. We've got our own people here that aren't being taken care of and pushed toward success. How many legal Mexican-Americans are being denied benefits or the process slowed because of illegal immigration? How many Indians have been floundering for decades due to the screwing they got?

[bull]

It's not the government enslaving people with a "victim mentality" - it's people enslaving themselves with that mentality - and the government is just a reflection of that. Someone is always out to screw us and we're just the downtrodden. You lose your job and can't get hired anywhere because of your minimal qualifications/skills? It's the fault of those damn companies outsourcing jobs, not your fault for seeing the writing on the wall years ago and not getting your ass to night school.  Your business is going under?  Well, it's WalMart's fault for selling stuff too cheap, not yours for not setting up your business to be competitive.  Your kid's doing bad in school? It must be the indifferent teachers and the corrupt school administrators...not your fault for letting the kid stay up late watching TV (or maybe your kid is just stupid, your fault for getting drunk that night and not using a jimmy hat). Your house is getting foreclosed? It's those evil banks and their ARM's....not your fault for buying a house you couldn't really afford in the first place or for refinancing the hell out of it to pay for your sea doos and your trailer and your charger...

It is not necessarily the "government" enslaving people with victim mentality, it is the individual politicians making promises to win elections that helps foster that atmosphere. Those promises attract that element of unmotivated people and then that collective of politicians becomes the government. So in that sense I agree. Yes, there are most definitely people running for office whose platform is to coddle the lazy. I've had several neighbors in that category. No job and no desire to get one, sitting on their butts watching a big screen TV, paying for steaks and cigarettes with the Oregon Trail Card (welfare) and loading the groceries I just bought for them into the back of their 2009 Escalade. And then the politician comes on TV telling them they are victims and that they are entitled to more of my money and your vote will make that happen.

[Ponch ®]

I don't see a lot of collective desire to create that motivation for people.  The minimum cost of living in the USA is unnecessarily big.

Yes, I'm saying that's the problem. There should be a collective desire to foster an atmosphere where people can be motivated. Some people cannot be motivated unless there is an element of fear. The ones that want to motivated be are not a problem, it's the ones that need to be that are. And handing them everything they need to avoid work is not a solution. It creates a cycle of dependency and a lack of that fear some people need to get off their butts and make it happen. Sure it costs a lot to live here. The deck is stacked toward two-income families but I know dozens of people who can and do make it work, myself included. It's done by being responsible with the money. No, I don't have two car payments, no I don't have cable TV, no I can't cash out my 401k to finish the Charger, no my kids can't go to private school, no I can't buy a new pair of Levi's four times a year, etc. Big deal. How much of the crap out there do we really need? Very little.

I know more than one guy who came to this country with nothing, at least one of them is now a millionare. He was motivated by his own inner strength and fear. And I can understand a Mexican who wants to cross his northern border and make a better life for he and his family. I get that. But there's an accepted method and there are rules. What I don't understand is how they can say to hell with Mexico. If the US is going to do anything for them why not equip them to take back their own country and instill some national pride? I would think a couple million armed Mexican nationals, backed by the US military, could make quite a dent in the Mexican cartel. We've got our own people here that aren't being taken care of and pushed toward success. How many legal Mexican-Americans are being denied benefits or the process slowed because of illegal immigration? How many Indians have been floundering for decades due to the screwing they got?

I don't know man...is it really our job to make sure other countries get their shit together? It's been tried in the past (Cuba, Vietnam, Central America, Iran and now in the Middle East) and none of those situations produced particularly stellar results. It's easy to say "them Mexicans need to fix their own country" (which they should), but it's not easy to do it. Whatever number of people that are leaving Mexico and coming here (legally or illegally) is probably negligible in the context of whether or not there are enough of them to go back and make a difference and fix their country. As you mentioned, WE have plenty of problems of our own that we can't seem to fix - if it were as easy as saying it, we'd have no national debt, no crime, a balanced budget, no homelessness, no kids going to bed hungry. But you gotta remember that "people" are involved, and "people" by nature screw things up more than they need to - no matter what country they live in.

Wanna get rid of the drug cartels? Easy, let's boycott them. If we don't buy their crap, they'll go away. At least that's what we say about OPEC and WalMart, right? I've yet to see a drug lord holding a gun to Johnny All American's head and forcing him to do a couple of lines of coke. Us Americans love our country, but I guess we seem to love it more when we're drunk or high....

[bull]

No, I don't think it is our job entirely. But I think our time, money and effort could be better spent helping the Mexicans take their own country back rather than housing them here. And I would argue that of all those wars in the countries you mentioned, dealing with this one to our immediate south would probably be the most justifiable given the current situation. There have been hundreds of murders and kidnappings of US citizens along the Mexican border and I know if this had happened in say Cuba or Iran people would be up in arms but somehow it slides because it's Mexico. It's not easy, and sorry to use an overused addage but anything worth doing is usually not done easily. I'm not saying it would make things perfect but to be blunt, the problem in Mexico is mainly the fault of the Mexicans who let it go this long. Same with the problems we have here. It's our fault for letting it go this long and now the problems here are affecting Mexico and the problems there are affecting us. But at some point you've got to say enough is enough. We can't keep coddling people. The coffers are empty, beyond empty, and if we don't start plugging all the holes this country is finished. What are we up to in debt now? Something like 13 trillion and counting?

[Ponch ®]

No, I don't think it is our job entirely. But I think our time, money and effort could be better spent helping the Mexicans take their own country back rather than housing them here. And I would argue that of all those wars in the countries you mentioned, dealing with this one to our immediate south would probably be the most justifiable given the current situation. There have been hundreds of murders and kidnappings of US citizens along the Mexican border and I know if this had happened in say Cuba or Iran people would be up in arms but somehow it slides because it's Mexico. It's not easy, and sorry to use an overused addage but anything worth doing is usually not done easily. I'm not saying it would make things perfect but to be blunt, the problem in Mexico is mainly the fault of the Mexicans who let it go this long. Same with the problems we have here. It's our fault for letting it go this long and now the problems here are affecting Mexico and the problems there are affecting us. But at some point you've got to say enough is enough. We can't keep coddling people. The coffers are empty, beyond empty, and if we don't start plugging all the holes this country is finished. What are we up to in debt now? Something like 13 trillion and counting?

But if we started spending our time and money on helping them take their country back, then we'd be hearing about how we're just throwing money at a problem that really isn't ours to solve while neglecting our own. It's a no win situation for whatever politician/government official that even suggests that. Just like with some of our own issues, letting the government try to solve them is a losing proposition at best. We can leave it to the private sector and individual if they want to invest in other countries, but then when some private US corporation opens a plant there (which ostensibly creates jobs and keeps those people from coming here), we accuse the corporation of taking jobs away from Americans to give it to the Mexicans. It's bad if we don't do anything, it's bad if we try to do too much.

Think of it this way - let's say we somehow sent all the illegals (and some legal immigrants that want to go back) back to Mexico. Then what? All you'd have is a bunch of angry and unemployed people who would put in power the first Castro/Chavez anti-American socialist asshat that promises them the moon. And we really don't want that.

[Tilar]

Wanna get rid of the drug cartels? Easy, let's boycott them. If we don't buy their crap, they'll go away. At least that's what we say about OPEC and WalMart, right? I've yet to see a drug lord holding a gun to Johnny All American's head and forcing him to do a couple of lines of coke. Us Americans love our country, but I guess we seem to love it more when we're drunk or high....

You are close to a solution but not quite there yet. The only way to get rid of the drug cartells is to NOT make it a fine for being caught with drugs, but to make it a capital offense. Fines are only a way to make money, Not to cure a problem. Get caught with cocaine, It is the death penalty. Get caught with heroin, You get the gallows. Hell make it a prime time show.  You show that sort of "penalty" and the problem will go away. Give them a $100 fine and 3 months probation, and they will be hunting that crap down an hour after they leave the court room.

[Ponch ®]

Wanna get rid of the drug cartels? Easy, let's boycott them. If we don't buy their crap, they'll go away. At least that's what we say about OPEC and WalMart, right? I've yet to see a drug lord holding a gun to Johnny All American's head and forcing him to do a couple of lines of coke. Us Americans love our country, but I guess we seem to love it more when we're drunk or high....

You are close to a solution but not quite there yet. The only way to get rid of the drug cartells is to NOT make it a fine for being caught with drugs, but to make it a capital offense. Fines are only a way to make money, Not to cure a problem. Get caught with cocaine, It is the death penalty. Get caught with heroin, You get the gallows. Hell make it a prime time show.  You show that sort of "penalty" and the problem will go away. Give them a $100 fine and 3 months probation, and they will be hunting that crap down an hour after they leave the court room.

All that would do is make illegal drugs more expensive and harder to procure, making it a much more profitable venture for the few ballsy guys who still want to go into the trade and giving them more incentive to attain and keep their power through more violence and/or influence with corrupt government officials. Or we can just legalize them all and tax them. If people want to screw up their own lives with drugs, let them. It's their decision. Alcoholism is a huge problem  too (probably bigger than drug addiction once you add up all of its ramifications) but I don't see much of a cry to ban alcohol. Speaking of which, alcohol is a good example of how all prohibition did was open a door of opportunity for the criminally minded (and the Kennedys...there may or may not be much of a difference, depending on your point of view   ). We made it legal again, and we don't have problems with a Pablo Escobar / Chapo Guzman-like figure in the alcohol business...do we?

[Tilar]

Actually it would make drugs cheaper. Would you raise prices when sales drop off? Would your be more apt to risk the death penalty at $100 an ounce or $0.25 an ounce? Regardless it still cleans the gene pool.

[RD]

Or we can just legalize them all and tax them. If people want to screw up their own lives with drugs, let them. It's their decision.

they would end up being a drain on our social services because the likelihood of them being a productive citizen in society is severely diminished due to their addiction.  legalizing drugs is not the answer IMO.  it will only create a terrible situation worse.

but, i do understand your argument.

[Ponch ®]

Or we can just legalize them all and tax them. If people want to screw up their own lives with drugs, let them. It's their decision.

they would end up being a drain on our social services because the likelihood of them being a productive citizen in society is severely diminished due to their addiction.  legalizing drugs is not the answer IMO.  it will only create a terrible situation worse.

but, i do understand your argument.

But they already are a drain on our social services. Besides, even if the numbers increased, the cost of them draining social services would still be cheaper than funneling money and helicopters to the Mexican, Colombian, etc authorities who do god knows what with it. We've already spent a trillion or so since 70's on the War On Drugs...and it's done diddily squat.

[bull]

Think of it this way - let's say we somehow sent all the illegals (and some legal immigrants that want to go back) back to Mexico. Then what? All you'd have is a bunch of angry and unemployed people who would put in power the first Castro/Chavez anti-American socialist asshat that promises them the moon. And we really don't want that.

I don't know. We've got asshats here already promising them that. Why not let some socialist Mexican asshat try giving them the moon down there. It doesn't work anywhere no matter who tries it but at least we'd have the advantage of geographic distance.

[elacruze]

No, I don't think it is our job entirely. But I think our time, money and effort could be better spent helping the Mexicans take their own country back rather than housing them here.

"NAFTA"