In America it's English, learn it.

[Brock Lee]

Let us not forget the Statue of Liberty:

Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

I guess they need to add an addendum: "But first they need to learn English and submit the appropriate paperwork".

[RD]

If a individual realizes that their actions or lack of actions will lead to actual punishment (not paper punishment that hold no real enforcement), then by all means let the peace officer use their better judgment to ensure that all individuals, who are suspected to be illegal aliens, are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. 

but again...what is a suspected illegal alien? you might say "well Ponch...you speak english, drive a nice car (not to start another 4 door Charger flamefest  )...of course theyre not gonna tag you as an illegal!" But what if I was in a different situation in life,where I was working construction or as a janitor? I will probably look like what you think an illegal alien looks like, but I'm not so I shouldn't have to be subjected to suspicion merely on the basis of my appearance. See, when you do that, you're going against one the most venerable tenets of our legal system - that you're innocent until proven guilty. The moment you start picking people out like that, you're making them guilty until proven innocent.

I'll say this: whether or not someone is an illegal immigrant IS a matter of black and white. But how do you deal with the problem isn't so much...

its just like when i get pulled over, am I innocent until proven guilty? I get a ticket first which is a sign of guilt but then I have to go to the courthouse to fight it to show that I am innocent. 

The only time it becomes something other than black and white is when people choose to think that some criminalistic activities do not apply to them or their interested parties.  So therefore, there has to be a shade of gray because we so will it to be.  Life can be simple, its just that illegal immigrants WANT more than what the law states they are allowed to have.. period. There is no arguing the fact that they are illegal, are a drain on society's resources, and create economic hardships for citizens.  That, in itself, is grounds for me to push them all back to where they came from.

We all complain of rising health care cost, bigger and bigger government, and more spending due to an increasing size of social services, but yet we do nothing to address a major reason as to why the costs of the above are rising.  Granted, its not just illegal immigrants, but they are a huge part of the issue.

Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door. I guess they need to add an addendum: "But first they need to learn English and submit the appropriate paperwork".

That has never changed.  Back then they expected them to do learn english, now there isnt any one willing to enforce it.  If the whole illegal immigrant thing is such a wonderful thing, why is it the protesters only protest when a law is made to enforce against it?  Why do they not just go ahead and put legislation to open the borders so all illegals can be legal?  let them all have what they want! bring them all in.. why discriminate on just a few that have the ballz to come over the border, let every single one of them in our great country.

that way, you all can have inner fighting to find jobs with those you so desperately worry about.

[Mike DC]

IMHO this whole immigration thing is economic at the core. 

The minimum wages in the USA are like a union wage that is set higher than the corporate state wants to pay.  So we've collectively let in a bunch of "non-union" workers to do the work for less.



In the long run, we all know what's coming - amnesty & citizenship for the whole lot of them. 

If we're smart then we won't waste our voices lobbying for a 30-million-person deportation that will never happen.  IMHO we should just be demanding the borders get truly closed as part of that deal, and maybe the situation will improve. 

[Brock Lee]

English was not enforced. There were parts of town that attracted certain nationalities. Most cities that were around during the industrial revolution had the French section, the Polish section, the Italian section, the Irish section, etc. This was done mainly so immigrants could communicate easier with less effort. My great-grandparents came here from Italy, neither learned English, nor did most of their neighbors. They simply did not have to. They lived around other native Italians and rarely interacted outside of their own circle. My great-grandmother died at 100 years of age, 70 of these years here in the US. She couldn't assemble a full sentence in English. Guess what? Most of the elderly from the neighborhood were the EXACT same way. Learning English was not mandatory and it was quite easy to live without learning it so long as they stayed in their neighborhood.

I also find it interesting how Catholic Churches have only been performing services in English for roughly 40 years.

[bull]

Let us not forget the Statue of Liberty:

Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

I guess they need to add an addendum: "But first they need to learn English and submit the appropriate paperwork".

That would be a better unwritten addendum that the one many of them apparently believe reads "Bring 12 million of your friends, take full advantage of our social services and protest any government decision that denies you the full benefit of our legal citizens."

And I wonder how many people would say they're being oppressed as motor vehicle operators when they A) have to prove they have legally earned the privilege to drive, B) have to show papers that prove their vehicle is registered and licensed and C) must show papers that prove they have insured their vehicle? How many other examples in life do you have to show documentation that you are who you are and have earned the right to do what you do? Every time you go to a doctor's office, go to Costco, get a book from the library, write a check, pick up your kid from the day care, vote, take money out of the bank, buy a house, etc., etc.

[bull]

Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nONjlZ8YMkA&feature=player_embedded

[RECHRGD]

Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nONjlZ8YMkA&feature=player_embedded

I just don't understand the logic of flying the Mexican flag.  It just inflames people and does nothing for their agenda.  It's just plain stupid IMHO.  Bob

[Nacho-RT74]

the incident "debate" about the flag:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwAsqRjqRjA&feature=related

[bull]

Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nONjlZ8YMkA&feature=player_embedded

I just don't understand the logic of flying the Mexican flag.  It just inflames people and does nothing for their agenda.  It's just plain stupid IMHO.  Bob

Exactly. What I don't get is why they abandon their own country and then, with acts like this, try to turn this country into theirs. They have their own nation and it rightfully belongs to them. Why not spend the time and energy making Mexico a better place rather than taking something that doesn't belong to them? Is it really any different than stealing someone's new car because your old beat up car needs to be overhauled? If you love Mexico so much take it back and make it better. I for one would be happy to help and I'm sure many other US citizens would too. If we took all the money we've spent on handouts for illegal immigrants and spent it on reinforcing the Mexican government it would be money well spent IMO. I'd even give them the money we spent bailing out the banks and GM but only IF the goal was to stop illegal immigration and make Mexico a place worth living in. It can be done.

And speaking of inflaming people: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_ScYY__oyk&feature=related

[RD]

Exactly. What I don't get is why they abandon their own country and then, with acts like this, try to turn this country into theirs. They have their own nation and it rightfully belongs to them. Why not spend the time and energy making Mexico a better place rather than taking something that doesn't belong to them? Is it really any different than stealing someone's new car because your old beat up car needs to be overhauled? If you love Mexico so much take it back and make it better. I for one would be happy to help and I'm sure many other US citizens would too. If we took all the money we've spent on handouts for illegal immigrants and spent it on reinforcing the Mexican government it would be money well spent IMO. I'd even give them the money we spent bailing out the banks and GM but only IF the goal was to stop illegal immigration and make Mexico a place worth living in. It can be done.

And speaking of inflaming people: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_ScYY__oyk&feature=related

i like how they cover their faces like they are doing a jihad.. yes, i put the terrorist reference in there because these people were directly inciting violence.  So, they are domestic terrorists in my opinion.

[RECHRGD]

That video makes me sick.  We let our wimpy politicians get us into this mess.  I grew up in So. Cal. in the 50's and 60's and had many friends of Mexican heritage that came from fine law abiding and hard working families.  They must be so ashamed of this.  Bob

[Ponch ®]

That video makes me sick.  We let our wimpy politicians get us into this mess.  I grew up in So. Cal. in the 50's and 60's and had many friends of Mexican heritage that came from fine law abiding and hard working families.  They must be so ashamed of this.  Bob

I'm ashamed of it too, but that's only a small group of people that act that way. I can go on youtube and find some videos of neo nazis or the KKK and make similar generalizations about white people, but I know those are fringe groups and and not all white people are racists.

[RD]

That video makes me sick.  We let our wimpy politicians get us into this mess.  I grew up in So. Cal. in the 50's and 60's and had many friends of Mexican heritage that came from fine law abiding and hard working families.  They must be so ashamed of this.  Bob

I'm ashamed of it too, but that's only a small group of people that act that way. I can go on youtube and find some videos of neo nazis or the KKK and make similar generalizations about white people, but I know those are fringe groups and and not all white people are racists.

very good point ponch.. i agree.. all races have their crazy zealots.. for which I am not proud of anyone of them, because we are all of one race, the human race.

[hemi68charger]

There are a lot of view points here.. I hope to GOD everyone here who HAS a viewpoint has written their Senators and Congressional Representatives. I know I have. I have hammered them with my viewpoints. I tell them I'm tired of being an active Air Force member, fought in 3 wars, activated post-9/11 for Combat Air Patrols and swore an oath to protect the citizens of this great country and Constitution and obey the orders of the President and Governor of Texas. All the while I'm doing this, my political representatives sit on their a#$ and do NOTHING to obey and enforce the law of the land. I'm sorry, I'm not protecting illegal immigrants and their "so-called" rights.. They have none....... Yes, they have Human Rights, but that comes under the jurisdiction of GOD and the International Community. I have empathy for their cries of families being torn apart. Who's fault is it? The first person in that family who decided to break US law and come to this country illegally. I hate that this country continues to look the other way. It has done so for SO LONG now, those very illegal immigrants hide under the shadow of the Constitution, a place they shouldn't have ever been in the first place. I find it ironic and offensive that they protest to be here in the States but carry banners in Spanish and wave the freakin' Mexican flag !!!  If you're going to wave something other than "bye-bye", it needs to be the American Flag. And while you're at it, learn the proper way to display that flag too...........  Jeeezzzzz

Write your Representatives and let your voices be heard !!!!!!

[bull]

Write your Representatives and let your voices be heard !!!!!!

They don't care either. Not that I'm saying people shouldn't write to them because they should, and I do, but the reps really do NOT care what we have to say. Once elected they assume that gives them the prerogative to do whatever they want, even if their own party members don't like it.

[hemi68charger]

Write your Representatives and let your voices be heard !!!!!!

They don't care either. Not that I'm saying people shouldn't write to them because they should, and I do, but the reps really do NOT care what we have to say. Once elected they assume that gives them the prerogative to do whatever they want, even if their own party members don't like it.

Shhhhhhhhh,, Bull, you can't let the young ones know that........ We have to let everyone know it works.......   

[resq302]

Lets be careful here guys. FWIW I believe if you want to live in this country play by the rules. Learn functional English, submit to a background check and take the legal path to becoming an American citizen. These things are no more than any of us would have to do immigrating to another country. We are all immigrants and the earliest humanoids came from the African continent....all of us.

Tom

I guess part of me that is Native American Indian would be the exception.

[Ponch ®]

These things are no more than any of us would have to do immigrating to another country. We are all immigrants and the earliest humanoids came from the African continent....all of us.

How come the official language of the United States isn't Algonquin then?

[bull]

Lets be careful here guys. FWIW I believe if you want to live in this country play by the rules. Learn functional English, submit to a background check and take the legal path to becoming an American citizen. These things are no more than any of us would have to do immigrating to another country. We are all immigrants and the earliest humanoids came from the African continent....all of us.

Tom

I guess part of me that is Native American Indian would be the exception.

Right, like you know how to speak the language of your ancestors. And no, 10 semi-fluent words does not count.

These things are no more than any of us would have to do immigrating to another country. We are all immigrants and the earliest humanoids came from the African continent....all of us.

How come the official language of the United States isn't Algonquin then?

Because we're talking common language, goofball. But if forcing the entire nation to unlearn English, Russian, Spanish, etc., and learn the Algonquin language is your idea of a solution you should pursue that.

[Ponch ®]

These things are no more than any of us would have to do immigrating to another country. We are all immigrants and the earliest humanoids came from the African continent....all of us.

How come the official language of the United States isn't Algonquin then?

Because we're talking common language, goofball.

Oh I know...I was referring to the arguments about how immigrants to a foreign land should assimilate and adopt the ways of the host culture. Unless I was out sick the day they taught history at school, I don't think Native Americans spoke english or wore funny hats with buckles...

[bull]

These things are no more than any of us would have to do immigrating to another country. We are all immigrants and the earliest humanoids came from the African continent....all of us.

How come the official language of the United States isn't Algonquin then?

Because we're talking common language, goofball.

Oh I know...I was referring to the arguments about how immigrants to a foreign land should assimilate and adopt the ways of the host culture. Unless I was out sick the day they taught history at school, I don't think Native Americans spoke english or wore funny hats with buckles...

That immigration should have been limited too and the natives rightly tried to stop it but they were overrun by a rampant influx that they were powerless to stop. Two wrongs don't make a right IMO.

[Ponch ®]

These things are no more than any of us would have to do immigrating to another country. We are all immigrants and the earliest humanoids came from the African continent....all of us.

How come the official language of the United States isn't Algonquin then?

Because we're talking common language, goofball.

Oh I know...I was referring to the arguments about how immigrants to a foreign land should assimilate and adopt the ways of the host culture. Unless I was out sick the day they taught history at school, I don't think Native Americans spoke english or wore funny hats with buckles...

That immigration should have been limited too and the natives rightly tried to stop it but they were overrun by a rampant influx that they were powerless to stop. Two wrongs don't make a right IMO.

No of course two wrongs don't make a right, but it just goes to illustrate how change is inevitable - for better or worse. Sometimes it's just simlply overstated.

[bull]

It also should illustrate the fact that humans can actually learn something from history rather than continually repeat dumb mistakes. Foolish changes can be avoided with the aide of 20/20 hindsight.

But I'll back you on the switch to the Central Algonquian language change here though, Ponch. The Indian tribe I'm a part of from would have spoken that language or something very close to it, so if this idea works I'll have a very good reason to learn it.

[elacruze]

Lets be careful here guys. FWIW I believe if you want to live in this country play by the rules. Learn functional English, submit to a background check and take the legal path to becoming an American citizen. These things are no more than any of us would have to do immigrating to another country. We are all immigrants and the earliest humanoids came from the African continent....all of us.

Tom

I guess part of me that is Native American Indian would be the exception.

No, actually humans on the American continents migrated across what is now the Bering Straits from Asia.
Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[hemi68charger]

Lets be careful here guys. FWIW I believe if you want to live in this country play by the rules. Learn functional English, submit to a background check and take the legal path to becoming an American citizen. These things are no more than any of us would have to do immigrating to another country. We are all immigrants and the earliest humanoids came from the African continent....all of us.

Tom

I guess part of me that is Native American Indian would be the exception.

No, actually humans on the American continents migrated across what is now the Bering Straits from Asia.
Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Tom was eluding to a time in human history way before the migration of nomadic tribes across the Bering Strait.. In a time before people showed up in Asia.

Troy

Now back to the History Channel.....