Header Headache

[bobs66440]

I just got back from checking the progress on my car ('66 440). My mechanic installed the Summit headers that the PO gave me with the car. To get them to fit, he had to flatten the two middle tubes on the drivers side to HALF their original size in order to get them to clear the steering box, as well as tweak, dent, dimple and bend all over to get them to work. Absolutely absurd for Summit to say that these headers fit this car. They do as long as you have a set of torches and a hammer. You would have to raise the engine up at least 2 inches for them to clear. They put in a few token flat spots here & there to "suggest" where to BASH it in but aren't nearly enough to clear anything. They aren't even close. What a waste of time and money. There's no way I can run them like that. They are so close to the steering box (1/16") that I'm afraid the heat will boil the fluid, and besides, I imagine that the tubes are so restrictive now that the stock manifolds will be better. And the flanges were so warped that he had to cut them apart to get them even. He even called them to double check the application in case there was something we missed and they said that it was correct. I have read some good & bad about headers in general for these cars (mostly bad) and realize I should have never attempted this. Being new to Mopars I am learning the hard ($$) way. From what I've read, the only headers that really consistently fit these cars are the tti ones, and maybe the Hookers and Heddmans.

In the end, after all that bs, I'm having him put the stock manifolds back on. I don't want to take a chance on him finishing up the headers just to find out that they leak or are cracked or whatever, and I don't have the time or money to experiment with new ones. Unfortunately, I used up the budget on these. I think I will keep my eye out for HP manifolds, but they are expensive.

Oh well, I vented...I feel better now. Sorry for the rant.  Carry on.

*NOTE See my post below. Turns out they are not for a power steering car. My fault.

[aifilaw]

This is why you hear again and again:
Buy TTI, they cost 5-600, but you see yourself they would have been worth it.

[terrible one]

I went with Hedmans on my car (383) for 20 or 30 bucks more than the Summit brand and they cleared the power steering box just fine. Went in pretty easily too. I had to bash one tube about 1/3 flat to clear the mini starter but after hearing everyones woes with headers lately they are definitely a good fit for cheap.

[Rolling_Thunder]

I have Hooker Super Comps on my 383 and my 440 when I had them in the Charger...    everything fir just fine except the fact on the 383 the headers hang low - So I took an oxy torch, heated the tubes up, and bent the collectors up closer to the floor pan.

My only other complain (that can not be helped) was that with long studs in the cylinder heads you can not fully remove the headers - this is typical of just about every header I have found -

[elacruze]

I have Hooker Super Comps on my 383 and my 440 when I had them in the Charger...    everything fir just fine except the fact on the 383 the headers hang low - So I took an oxy torch, heated the tubes up, and bent the collectors up closer to the floor pan.

My only other complain (that can not be helped) was that with long studs in the cylinder heads you can not fully remove the headers - this is typical of just about every header I have found -

My Super Comps fit without hitting anything. I sawed off my studs so they're just long enough to get aircraft locknuts on.
Of course, after learning to pick the car up off the K/engine, I'll never try to pull them out the top again hopefully.

[Silver R/T]

how m

I just got back from checking the progress on my car ('66 440). My mechanic installed the Summit headers that the PO gave me with the car. To get them to fit, he had to flatten the two middle tubes on the drivers side to HALF their original size in order to get them to clear the steering box, as well as tweak, dent, dimple and bend all over to get them to work. Absolutely absurd for Summit to say that these headers fit this car. They do as long as you have a set of torches and a hammer. You would have to raise the engine up at least 2 inches for them to clear. They put in a few token flat spots here & there to "suggest" where to BASH it in but aren't nearly enough to clear anything. They aren't even close. What a waste of time and money. There's no way I can run them like that. They are so close to the steering box (1/16") that I'm afraid the heat will boil the fluid, and besides, I imagine that the tubes are so restrictive now that the stock manifolds will be better. And the flanges were so warped that he had to cut them apart to get them even. He even called them to double check the application in case there was something we missed and they said that it was correct. I have read some good & bad about headers in general for these cars (mostly bad) and realize I should have never attempted this. Being new to Mopars I am learning the hard ($$) way. From what I've read, the only headers that really consistently fit these cars are the tti ones, and maybe the Hookers and Heddmans.

In the end, after all that bs, I'm having him put the stock manifolds back on. I don't want to take a chance on him finishing up the headers just to find out that they leak or are cracked or whatever, and I don't have the time or money to experiment with new ones. Unfortunately, I used up the budget on these. I think I will keep my eye out for HP manifolds, but they are expensive.

Oh well, I vented...I feel better now. Sorry for the rant.  Carry on.

how much were those headers? You get what you pay for

[bobs66440]

how m

I just got back from checking the progress on my car ('66 440). My mechanic installed the Summit headers that the PO gave me with the car. To get them to fit, he had to flatten the two middle tubes on the drivers side to HALF their original size in order to get them to clear the steering box, as well as tweak, dent, dimple and bend all over to get them to work. Absolutely absurd for Summit to say that these headers fit this car. They do as long as you have a set of torches and a hammer. You would have to raise the engine up at least 2 inches for them to clear. They put in a few token flat spots here & there to "suggest" where to BASH it in but aren't nearly enough to clear anything. They aren't even close. What a waste of time and money. There's no way I can run them like that. They are so close to the steering box (1/16") that I'm afraid the heat will boil the fluid, and besides, I imagine that the tubes are so restrictive now that the stock manifolds will be better. And the flanges were so warped that he had to cut them apart to get them even. He even called them to double check the application in case there was something we missed and they said that it was correct. I have read some good & bad about headers in general for these cars (mostly bad) and realize I should have never attempted this. Being new to Mopars I am learning the hard ($$) way. From what I've read, the only headers that really consistently fit these cars are the tti ones, and maybe the Hookers and Heddmans.

In the end, after all that bs, I'm having him put the stock manifolds back on. I don't want to take a chance on him finishing up the headers just to find out that they leak or are cracked or whatever, and I don't have the time or money to experiment with new ones. Unfortunately, I used up the budget on these. I think I will keep my eye out for HP manifolds, but they are expensive.

Oh well, I vented...I feel better now. Sorry for the rant.  Carry on.

how much were those headers? You get what you pay for

The previous owner gave them to me with the car, so I'm not sure what he paid, but I think they are in the $100.00 range. Even so, if they are advertised as fitting this car, they should fit the car. Or at least be close. I can see cheaper headers not being as good as more expensive ones as far as producing power, or longevity goes. I understand the whole concept of good/bad quality as opposed to price. But if they don't even fit the car, or if you have to "modify" them so much to fit that you are actually defeating their purpose, then they are completely useless.

[c00nhunterjoe]

just checked summits site, they dont advertise big block headers for your car.........

[Silver R/T]

For a $100 I wouldn't complain. I would just throw them away or sell them at yard sale for $5 or something. Someone might use it as ornament in their garage or something. I've helped friend install Hookers, even they wouldn't fit as good. Good headers cost over $400 imo

[mauve66]

my jet hot coated dynomax headers needed a little tweak at the PS box but other than that fit good, even got to wrap the starter with heat deflector

[c00nhunterjoe]

my 130 dollar hedman's fit my 69 383 powersteering auto car with no issues, clears with plenty of room to spare. after i installed the 4 speed i had slight starter/ bellhousing issues, a slight dimple at the bellhousing on each side and just enough of a smack to "take the round" out of the tube at the starter and i was in busniss.

[bobs66440]

just checked summits site, they dont advertise big block headers for your car.........

They don't list them for my car because big blocks weren't offered in '66. They started in '67 but the '66 & '67 Chargers are identical for the purpose of this conversion. Big block conversions are common and it's common for '66 owners to order parts for a '67 (to avoid confusion) when the conversion has been done. After the conversion has been done, the '66 big block is exactly the same as a '67 big block. If the headers do not fit on my car they will not fit on a '67. The tech department said that they would work and they don't.

Silver R/T, I'm not complaining about the money. They are inexpensive in money but very expensive in time and aggravation. That's the complaint. Even if they are free they are not worth the hassle. I agree, the more expensive headers are well worth it if they save the hassle. I don't plan on keeping them or selling them (I wouldn't want to do that to anyone) I'm going to cut them up & trash them.

I have read complaints on this and other forums about this same problem, so I am not the only one. The only thing I can't understand is that others have installed these headers successfully on these cars. The only thing I can figure is differences in quality control. Most (like mauve66) have said that they needed to tweak a little here and there which I can understand, but these were way off. It seems it's hit and miss as to whether or not they'll work on your car. Maybe they were having a bad day at the factory.

[c00nhunterjoe]

i see, didnt realize the big block in 67 issue, that said i looked them up, if you read the fine print it says that they will not fit a power steering car and clearancing is needed for 4 speeds and column shift. their tech dept screwed up by telling you it would fit.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G9041/Application/?query=Year|1967|Make|DODGE|Model|CHARGER|Engine+Size|7.2L%2f440

[bobs66440]

i see, didnt realize the big block in 67 issue, that said i looked them up, if you read the fine print it says that they will not fit a power steering car and clearancing is needed for 4 speeds and column shift. their tech dept screwed up by telling you it would fit.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G9041/Application/?query=Year|1967|Make|DODGE|Model|CHARGER|Engine+Size|7.2L%2f440

Wow! you're right. I never saw that. That would explain it. My mechanic actually spoke to them. I wonder if he mentioned that it was a power steering car? Regardless, it's my fault for not looking into it deeper and assuming that the previous owner got the right ones. I should have looked it up on the site. We were going by the printed directions that came with them and I don't remember it saying anything about power steering issues...only auto trans linkage. Lesson learned, triple and quadruple check everything I guess. Thanks for the info. I take back what I said.

Bob

[c00nhunterjoe]

  no prob, you would think the tech line would ask you about the fine print knowing you were having problems.

it still p's me off about the "high dollar" headers. if i spend 5-600 bucks on a set of tti's then i want them to fit with room to spare. i cant beleive they actually tell you on thier site that you will have to clearance them... read the notes
http://www.ttiexhaust.com/Header-TTI383+440-178/BB178headers.htm

[bobs66440]

no prob, you would think the tech line would ask you about the fine print knowing you were having problems.

it still p's me off about the "high dollar" headers. if i spend 5-600 bucks on a set of tti's then i want them to fit with room to spare. i cant beleive they actually tell you on thier site that you will have to clearance them... read the notes
http://www.ttiexhaust.com/Header-TTI383+440-178/BB178headers.htm

Amazing. For that price you should be able to put them on with no issues.