Leg room, bench vs buckets

[BIGBLCK11]

I have a 70 Charger with a split bench seat,.  I am converting it to a 4 speed.  I already feel like I am too close to the wheel, with the seat all the way back.  Do you have a lot more room with buckets?  I thought I would leave it old school and run the bench seat, plus it already has a new cover and buckets/tracks/seatbelts will be pricey.  It is just going to be worse having a clutch pedal to operate. Maybe it would be easier to make something up for the drivers side bucket vs a bench? Any insight is greatly appreciated.

[Ghoste]

Personally I can't recall noticing any difference between the two so my guess would be that B-body seat tracks allow for the same room whether bench or bucket.  But that is just an opinion based on having had both versions in the past and driving others, it isn't something I've ever measured.

[BIGBLCK11]

Thanks for the reply.  I was hoping I might have an option, but thought that might be the case.  I have never sat in one with buckets.  There are only a couple around town at the cruise-ins, I will see if I can sit in one of them.  Since it is finally getting warmer, they will getting going here soon.

[Mike DC]

  
The big weird thing about these cars is the steering wheel placement compared to the pedals.  They feel too far apart from each other no matter what you do about the seat.  And the steering wheel feels a little too high up for most people as well.

I don't think the raw locations of the seats are that different for a front bench versus buckets.  The 4drs might be higher up off the floor than the 2dr models (I'm not sure) but that's about it.  





IMHO the factories have been going about the seating issues wrong for decades.  They should stop trying to move the seats quite so far, and add more adjustment range onto the steering wheel & pedals.  

Sooner or later they'll do it though.  Crash standards are always evolving.  Eventually they'll get sick of trying to make the cars crash acceptably with such a wide range of possible locations for the passengers' bodies.  That will force them to start moving the controls a little more and the seats/bodies less.  

[BIGBLCK11]

Thanks for the response, that makes sense to me.  I feel like a little kid, right up on the wheel and too close to the wing vent.  I agree, the wheel is high, compared to how low you sit in the seat, now that you pointed that out.  They are getting there somewhat at least, my 07 Grand Cherokee has the adjustable pedals, which is a very nice adjustment to have. Exactly what I could use in the Charger.

[Mike DC]

Part of the wheel issue is that the wheels are physically very big and the column itself lays down at a pretty low angle for a misize sedan.  The factory can't keep moving the wheel down any farther once the bottom of the rim is laying on the thighs of the driver. 

You can somewhat counteract the wheel/pedal issue with some changes.  And aftermarket steering wheel helps; it's pretty easy to get one that is smaller diameter and has less "dish" offset between the hub mounting surface and the rim itself.  



You could also move the pedals if you got more ambitious.  I don't think I would even bother to cut & weld anything on ther pedals themselves, I would just try making some shallow blocks (maybe out of some junkyard spare Mopar pedals?) to bolt onto the face of the stock ones.  Keep the shape of the stock pedals & keep the rubber covers on the pedal faces, and I imagine it would work fine.  

Blocking the pedals up several inches would probably not work very well/safely.  But I'll bet just 1-2 inches would feel like a lot from the driver seat.  

I wouldn't worry much about the changes not fitting other drivers, because the car's factory setup was way outside of normal to start with.  Any raising of the pedals or moving the wheel rim would just be moving it closer to average.    

   

[BIGBLCK11]

Thanks for the additional input.  I think something was misunderstood.  I need more leg room, as I am 6'4".  I want my seat to go back further.  The wheel up high makes me feel like what a little kid or little old lady would look like driving it, but I feel crammed in there since the seat is all the way back.  It works just ok with the auto, although i still feel like i am way up in the front of such a long car.  But, when I get the 4 speed in, it will be cumbersome to work the clutch.   I def. do not want to change the pedals for either direction.  At best, I thought I would make some adapter plates between the seat and tracks to allow moving the seat backward, yet be reversible if possible.  I hate to make permanent changes.  Although, a big hole in the floor for the shifter pretty much kills that theory. 

[Mike DC]

aaahh . . .  Longer legs, not shorter.  Most people are complaining about the pedals feeling too far away compared to the wheel.  

Yeah, I hear you on the legroom issue in general.  I'm barely 6'0" and I don't seem to fit into anything, so I can't imagine most cars with 6'4" to fit.  (Although I wear a 34" leg inseam, which is usually found on a taller guy than me.)

The pedals are as far forward (towards the front of the car) as they can realistically go from the factory.  I agree, you're basically stuck moving the seat backwards to make longer legs fit now.  Fab some custom seat tracks for a few more inches and that's about all you can do.  


-------------------


BTW:  I've been using a 1990s Lexus LS400 for a daily driver lately.  (It's basically a Lexus Crown Vic.)  Anyway, this is the first modern car I can remember driving where I have plenty of legroom.  In most cars & trucks I typically put the seat as far back as it will go (and often still wish for more), but not with this thing.  


 

[RallyeMike]

I'm also 6-4, and used to have a 70 Charger with a bench seat. I pulled the seat out, knocked out the studs and moved them 1 inch forward which is the max you can move them in the tracks. I tack welded them and reinstalled the seat. You're thinking "It's only an inch!". True, but it made a huge difference in the feel of the car and comfort of fit. I could barely stand driving it before, and afterward it was just fine.

It doesn't do anything to permanently devalue the car, it's easily put back, nobody can tell it was done, and it cost almost nothing to do.

[BIGBLCK11]

Thanks RallyeMike!  Sounds like the best and quickest thing to try, without really modifying it much.  I'll take your word for it, since it made the ride more comfortable for you. It sounds like the same exact situation, just not as enjoyable now.

[ODZKing]

Yep, did that with another Mopar I had.  Used these ... elevator bolts.  Many tracks have several square holes already done.  Just tack 'em down.  Available at many "fastener" type places.  And you can choose your diameter and threads:
1/4-20  
5/16-18  
3/8-16

[BIGBLCK11]

Excellent! ODZKing thanks for the reply and pic.  I will look for those.


I appreciate all the great input from the members here. Awesome forum! 

[lisiecki1]

Those are also referred to as carriage bolts.

[ODZKing]

Those are also referred to as carriage bolts.

Carriage bolts generally have a rounded or oval head.  Elevator bolt heads are thin and flat ... but same idea.

[lisiecki1]

ahhh.....good stuff! 

[kab69440]

Something else you should keep in mind, since you're a couple of inches shorter than I am is the size of your feet. Installing a 4 gear will require an additional chunk of stamped sheet welded to the tranny hump. For us big boys with big feets, that hump comes very close to the accelerator pedal and can be a bit of a headache. I used the clutch/ brake assembly from a Dodge pickup when I converted my car years ago. I shortened the pedal levers an inch and rewelded them to the pivot shaft, this is another mod that greatly increases comfort for the altitude-gifted among us. I still have a problem with hitting the gas with the side of my foot if I brake too hard, but I've never owned a vehicle with which I didn't have that problem.

[BIGBLCK11]

Kab69440 - Thanks for the advice.  I will keep that in mind when setting it up.  I did already buy a set of pedals from a Charger.  I will have to temporarily put the seat back in early and try it out.  It will be a lot easier to make adjustments at that time, if needed.  Otherwise, the seat would have been one of the last parts getting reinstalled.

[Brock Lee]

I moved my seats as well when drilling the new floor pan patches.

[Foreman72]

something like this may help, but i would imagine its on the expensive side...

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,41847.0.html

[BIGBLCK11]

Cool! more feedback.  Thanks for the XV Motorsports link, they have some nice stuff.  Not sure I will spend the dollars for tilt, already spent a smaller chunk on the 70 non-column shift for the conversion.

Def. good to know I am not the only one who wanted to move the seats back some.

Thanks!

[Foreman72]

Cool! more feedback.  Thanks for the XV Motorsports link, they have some nice stuff.  Not sure I will spend the dollars for tilt, already spent a smaller chunk on the 70 non-column shift for the conversion.

Def. good to know I am not the only one who wanted to move the seats back some.

Thanks!

this way help as well

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,15158.0.html