Oklahoma to discuss instituting state militias

[RD]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100412/ap_on_re_us/us_tea_party_militia

interesting.. um.. how they going to pay for it?  my in-laws live in oklahoma.. the state aint rich by any means.  If this does happen, I would be interested in seeing who will be their top commander and how many "bubba's" sign up the next day 

[elacruze]

Wull, hayll-

Michigan's had a mulisha fer yeers, don't hardly cost nuthin' atall.

[RD]

Wull, hayll-

Michigan's had a mulisha fer yeers, don't hardly cost nuthin' atall.

lol.. hilarious!  this is actually a militia thought up by the legislators of the state based upon constitutional principles.

[69DodgeCharger]

Wull, hayll-

Michigan's had a mulisha fer yeers, don't hardly cost nuthin' atall.

lol.. hilarious!  this is actually a militia thought up by the legislators of the state based upon constitutional principles.

Perhaps, instead of coming on here just to make fun of this issue maybe you should ask yourself why everyday citizens across the country have been, and are quietly arming themselves against the Federal Govt? Why they are now advocating organized State militias, not under the control of the Feds? Why private gun and ammo sales are exploding? Why people are stocking up on "survival" supplies? Why people are dropping off the tax rolls and going into an "underground economy"?  Bubba is a lot smarter than he looks or acts some of the time.

[68coronetGLwannabe]

Perhaps, instead of coming on here just to make fun of this issue maybe you should ask yourself why everyday citizens across the country have been, and are quietly arming themselves against the Federal Govt? Why they are now advocating organized State militias, not under the control of the Feds? Why private gun and ammo sales are exploding? Why people are stocking up on "survival" supplies? Why people are dropping off the tax rolls and going into an "underground economy"?  Bubba is a lot smarter than he looks or acts some of the time.




 Pretty much the foundation of this Great Country.

[Shakey]

Perhaps, instead of coming on here just to make fun of this issue maybe you should ask yourself why everyday citizens across the country have been, and are quietly arming themselves against the Federal Govt? Why they are now advocating organized State militias, not under the control of the Feds? Why private gun and ammo sales are exploding? Why people are stocking up on "survival" supplies? Why people are dropping off the tax rolls and going into an "underground economy"?  Bubba is a lot smarter than he looks or acts some of the time.




 Pretty much the foundation of this Great Country.

right along with free speech - correct?

[charger_cody]

Well not to get "Political" but I kinda Gave up on the thought that our country is "best", for several reasons, this exampling one.

Cody

[69DodgeCharger]

Well not to get "Political" but I kinda Gave up on the thought that our country is "best", for several reasons, this exampling one.

Cody

Then maybe you should move to a new country that better suits your ideology. Just a thought?

[charger_cody]

Well not to get "Political" but I kinda Gave up on the thought that our country is "best", for several reasons, this exampling one.

Cody

Then maybe you should move to a new country that better suits your ideology. Just a thought?

Hmmmm  Nah too expensive to move the car. I'll just go to work them come home and be in my "own" world. 

Cody

[PocketThunder]

We will win in the voting both come November.

[69DodgeCharger]

Perhaps, instead of coming on here just to make fun of this issue maybe you should ask yourself why everyday citizens across the country have been, and are quietly arming themselves against the Federal Govt? Why they are now advocating organized State militias, not under the control of the Feds? Why private gun and ammo sales are exploding? Why people are stocking up on "survival" supplies? Why people are dropping off the tax rolls and going into an "underground economy"?  Bubba is a lot smarter than he looks or acts some of the time.




 Pretty much the foundation of this Great Country.

right along with free speech - correct?

Nice try but I'm not taking the bait. Nobody's hacking on his right to free speech.

[RD]

this can get ugly fast, oh wait, already has.  you all miss my point.  I dont want to get into the political arena in regards to why this, why that, and what you are pissed off about.  i dont care what you think in regards to politics.

so, before you get off on your serious holier than thou "everyone should do their homework to fall in line with my opinion" bs, let us focus more on the HOW.  How will a state that is poverty stricken even attempt to develop or create a state militia when they can barely stay afloat?

you want your militia, good have it.. just dont bankrupt those that dont because you think your opinion is better.

[Ponch ®]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100412/ap_on_re_us/us_tea_party_militia

interesting.. um.. how they going to pay for it?  my in-laws live in oklahoma.. the state aint rich by any means.  If this does happen, I would be interested in seeing who will be their top commander and how many "bubba's" sign up the next day 

guess they've never heard of the national guard?

[68coronetGLwannabe]

Has anyone be reading the comments posted in the Yahoo article? I don't understand why standing up for their Constitutional Rights they become Hillbilly gun toting Rednecks. I think alot of people in this country are at their breaking point and we might see stranger things than this arise. As far as how they will pay for it, if they want it bad enough they will pass the cost onto us as usual.

[Ponch ®]

I don't understand why standing up for their Constitutional Rights they become Hillbilly gun toting Rednecks. I think alot of people in this country are at their breaking point and we might see stranger things than this arise.

Breaking point for what? That's what I don't get. Precisely because we live in a nation of laws and we have a Constitution, if they don't like the situation then they voice their opinions at the voting booth. If you lose, you lose and wait til the next election. That's how it goes. This isn't Somalia or one of those places where whichever warlord has the most guns wins.

All those paranoid delusions about government conspiracies and takeovers are simply a product of having way too much on their hands due to the bad economy, unemployment, white anxiety, whatever... The government can't deliver the mail, let alone engineer some sinister plan to enslave everyone. But when these groups start openly arming themselves and start plotting against the government preemptively, then they're inviting the law to come after them - and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Besides, at that point, these militia guys are no different than Al Qaeda or some similar group that seeks to bring down our country. They're just doing it under a different pretext.

[rudyjrusa]

communisim is here - its over!

[69DodgeCharger]

I don't understand why standing up for their Constitutional Rights they become Hillbilly gun toting Rednecks. I think alot of people in this country are at their breaking point and we might see stranger things than this arise.

Breaking point for what? That's what I don't get. Precisely because we live in a nation of laws and we have a Constitution, if they don't like the situation then they voice their opinions at the voting booth. If you lose, you lose and wait til the next election. That's how it goes. This isn't Somalia or one of those places where whichever warlord has the most guns wins.

All those paranoid delusions about government conspiracies and takeovers are simply a product of having way too much on their hands due to the bad economy, unemployment, white anxiety, whatever... The government can't deliver the mail, let alone engineer some sinister plan to enslave everyone. But when these groups start openly arming themselves and start plotting against the government preemptively, then they're inviting the law to come after them - and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Besides, at that point, these militia guys are no different than Al Qaeda or some similar group that seeks to bring down our country. They're just doing it under a different pretext.

Intersting thoughts.

"A nation of laws"...

True, to bad our local, State and Federal Govt don't apply that standard to themselves.

"But when these groups start openly arming themselves and start plotting against the government preemptively, then they're inviting the law to come after them - and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Besides, at that point, these militia guys are no different than Al Queada or some similar group that aims to bring down our country"...

Wow can I have some of the Kool Aide you're drinking? That comparison is not even close and you know it. Where is the evidence of these so called plots. I haven't seen any?

Ooooh, that's right, sealed indictments. You know to preserve the integrity of the "ongoing investigation" As I said earlier why don't you ask yorself why these people fear the Govt. so much. In my neck of the woods these people aren't all bubba's many of them are business owners, management proffesionals, Police officers, everyday blue collar workers right down to little old ladies. This movement has nothing to do with a half black man, that's right I said half, being in the President's seat. You can pretend all you want there isn't a very serious storm brewing in this country but you will see soon enough. And it won't be very pretty I am guessing.

[68X426]

 

[Ponch ®]

As I said earlier why don't you ask yorself why these people fear the Govt. so much.

Because "the government" is the easiest foil in their simplistic paranoid fantasies. They don't want to think about how complex things really are - and blaming the gov't is the easiest, more comfortable route. You could be right...a storm may be brewing, but I can guarantee that if shit really does hit the fan, no militia or coalition thereof will be able to do a thing about it (other can causing some self serving mayhem).

As far as my comparison - let's see...a group of fringe individuals get together, arm themselves, think that the US Government is the enemy, so they go underground and plan some way or another to undermine it under the guise of fighting for their freedom / sovereignty...

[69DodgeCharger]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Ponch ®]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

its what makes the world go 'round. 

[68coronetGLwannabe]

Intersting thoughts.


"A nation of laws"...

True, to bad our local, State and Federal Govt don't apply that standard to themselves.

"But when these groups start openly arming themselves and start plotting against the government preemptively, then they're inviting the law to come after them - and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Besides, at that point, these militia guys are no different than Al Queada or some similar group that aims to bring down our country"...

Wow can I have some of the Kool Aide you're drinking? That comparison is not even close and you know it. Where is the evidence of these so called plots. I haven't seen any?

Ooooh, that's right, sealed indictments. You know to preserve the integrity of the "ongoing investigation" As I said earlier why don't you ask yorself why these people fear the Govt. so much. In my neck of the woods these people aren't all bubba's many of them are business owners, management proffesionals, Police officers, everyday blue collar workers right down to little old ladies. This movement has nothing to do with a half black man, that's right I said half, being in the President's seat. You can pretend all you want there isn't a very serious storm brewing in this country but you will see soon enough. And it won't be very pretty I am guessing.



Well said  69DodgeCharger.  

[gasoline_24]

Isn't it called treason to plot against our government?  Last I checked the "half black man" is the president and those that don't like the government can always leave and find a new one that they like more.  This is what I was told when I expressed displeasure with the last president.

[TK73]

Wow can I have some of the Kool Aide you're drinking? That comparison is not even close and you know it. Where is the evidence of these so called plots. I haven't seen any?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20002337-504083.html

"Federal prosecutors say that David Stone Sr. and eight other members of the Michigan-based group plotted the mass killings of police officers in the hope of sparking an anti-government revolution."

[TK73]

Isn't it called treason to plot against our government?  Last I checked the "half black man" is the president and those that don't like the government can always leave and find a new one that they like more.  This is what I was told when I expressed displeasure with the last president.

I was told the same thing...

If you don't want to live under our current Leader/govt you are cordially invited to find elsewhere to reside.  Might I suggest Somalia/China/Columbia ?

[Mike DC]

   

Obama is taking FDR's lib/soc ideology as far as it will go and we won't like the results of it.  Just like GWB took Reagan's neo/con ideology as far as it would go and we didn't like the results of it.


Obama has made his detractors mad enough to load guns & form militias.  GWB made his detractors just as mad, the only difference was that they weren't the gun & militia types for the most part. 


---------------------------------------------------------   


As for the Tea-Partiers . . . well, it seems to me like they've got BOTH parties angry at them, and BOTH sides of the mainstream media ignoring & ridiculing them. 

Sounds like they're doing something right.      


                     

[last426]

As far as my comparison - let's see...a group of fringe individuals get together, arm themselves, think that the US Government is the enemy, so they go underground and plan some way or another to undermine it under the guise of fighting for their freedom / sovereignty...

Thank goodness that the vast majority of these screwballs are undereducated if educated at all -- I fought hundreds of them while I defended the United States as a lawyer.  From the goofball Montana militias who pretended to pay off mortgages using some kind of self made currency to the nutbags who argued the IRS laws were unconstitutional.  Over and over they would make the same lame arguments and end up fined or in the can.  

Since I retired I just started to work for the census.  I can't wait till these pathetic lameoids start arguing about the government trying to count them.   I would like to say, as I leave their residence, "that's cool, I will just guess at you and your family's heritage and submit it, Pablo."  Yeah, that will make them happy.  

Folks, the government is not out to get you.  But the government is made up of a lot of normal people.  Normal people who can make it burdensome for folks who are goofy and making silly arguments.  Kim

[TK73]

Folks, the government is not out to get you.  But the government is made up of a lot of normal people.  Normal people who can make it burdensome for folks who are goofyy and making silly arguments.  Kim

I have been working for the government for over a decade... we actually are out to get everybody and have been keeping detailed records on DC.com members...

[RD]

Folks, the government is not out to get you.  But the government is made up of a lot of normal people.  Normal people who can make it burdensome for folks who are goofyy and making silly arguments.  Kim

I have been working for the government for over a decade... we actually are out to get everybody and have been keeping detailed records on DC.com members...

lol!

on a serious note, ponch nailed it on the head.  the government is not some crazed, whacked out bureaucracy attempting to push you into a socialist state or even communism.  if you claim this based upon the new health bill, then SURPRISE!!!!

SOCIALIST MEDICINE / HEALTH CARE HAS BEEN IN THE UNITED STATES SINCE THE 1960's!!!!  PLEASE REPEAT AFTER ME: MEDICARE

Granted it is not 100% socialized, but man it has the same principles as the new health bill except it did not have the teeth to take the health insurance companies on.

Lastly, moreso to this topic.  An armed mob is an armed mob.  Each state has a militia, its called the national guard.  Their commander in chief (in peacetime) is the Governor of that state.  If y'all think the creation of a state militia to ultimately (as there is no other reason why you would arm citizens, the british are not invading anymore) defend the state against the federal government, then you are the biggest traitor out there since benedict arnold in my opinion.  Do not preach out about how a militia is justified, most who believe in this crap are just sore losers if you ask me.  You will get your chance in the next election, until then, how does the humble pie taste?  Karma is a beotch I can tell ya that.

Historical note:

State militias were included in the Constitution of the United States at a time when the states had more power than the actual federal government did.  Due to this imbalance, the states were financially more capable of providing such defense, as well as it being more customary at the time based upon each state viewing themselves with a larger base of autonomy than that of today.  We are more of a "whole" today than what the U.S. was in 1791 I can assure you that.

[ACUDANUT]

The point is moot. No Militia or a Several State Sponsored National Guard units joined together, could ever win against the Federal Military.  The feds have all the "good toys". 

[Todd Wilson]

Lastly, moreso to this topic.  An armed mob is an armed mob.  Each state has a militia, its called the national guard.  Their commander in chief (in peacetime) is the Governor of that state.  If y'all think the creation of a state militia to ultimately (as there is no other reason why you would arm citizens, the british are not invading anymore) defend the state against the federal government, then you are the biggest traitor out there since benedict arnold in my opinion.  Do not preach out about how a militia is justified, most who believe in this crap are just sore losers if you ask me.  You will get your chance in the next election, until then, how does the humble pie taste?  Karma is a beotch I can tell ya that.

Historical note:

State militias were included in the Constitution of the United States at a time when the states had more power than the actual federal government did.  Due to this imbalance, the states were financially more capable of providing such defense, as well as it being more customary at the time based upon each state viewing themselves with a larger base of autonomy than that of today.  We are more of a "whole" today than what the U.S. was in 1791 I can assure you that.

Experience in America prior to the U.S. Constitution
In no particular order, early American settlers viewed the right to arms and/or the right to bear arms and state militias as important for one or more of these purposes:[23][24][25][26][27][28][29][30][31][32]

deterring undemocratic government;
repelling invasion;
suppressing insurrection;
facilitating a natural right of self-defense;
participating in law enforcement;
slave control in slave states.

[Todd Wilson]

The point is moot. No Militia or a Several State Sponsored National Guard units joined together, could ever win against the Federal Military.  The feds have all the "good toys". 

Yeah thats why we are still over in Afghanistan fighting with all the good toys!


Todd

[Mike DC]

     
IMHO the only reason we still have the 2nd amendment is because it doesn't allow enough weapons for an assembled mob to actually pose any threat to the govt.


   

[69DodgeCharger]

This is a quotation from Lord Acton, in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton, 1887:

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."


It is very rare that anybody is immune from the above quote and over time most will succumb to corruption. It is inevitable. Thus you get what we have today in this country.

[Ponch ®]

It is very rare that anybody is immune from the above quote and over time most will succumb to corruption. It is inevitable. Thus you get what we have today in this country.

just today?

[RD]

This is a quotation from Lord Acton, in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton, 1887:

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."


It is very rare that anybody is immune from the above quote and over time most will succumb to corruption. It is inevitable. Thus you get what we have today in this country.

this is true, but what makes your ideal concept of a state militia immune from this?  lets talk hypothetically.  if a state militia does come into being into all 50 states and are able to repel "a undemocratic government" (like todd stated), then how long do you think it will be before those that receive this newly found "power" will then, themselves, become corrupted.  what makes them any better than the perceived threat you have now?  they will just find a way to screw you over under the guise of your beliefs, so now you are screwed over with the wool over your eyes.  ignorance is bliss i guess.

face it people, violence begets violence.  you show up with a force of arms, you will get the same attention back.  state militias being developed to deter federal government interstate commerce or laws will be considered an act of secession.  The south lost the last time this happened, and the following/backing of the states (and the people for that matter) are not near the same.

the economy is bouncing back, the dow closed at its highest in 18 months, legislation has been passed to insure 30 million americans who cannot afford healthcare... things arent perfect, but they never are and never will be under any administration.  face it, when people are not getting what they want and there is no other reason than, well its just BS and I dont like it.. they resort to violence.  this talk of militias is just a blanketed, under the rug, politically divisive movement to promote something under the guise of democratic or ideological unsound principles.

lets call it what it really is:  OUR SIDE LOST THE ELECTION, WE DO NOT LIKE HAVING A MINORITY IN CONGRESS, WE WILL NOT GET ANY CONSERVATIVE IDEALS PUSHED ACROSS, AND WE DONT LIKE A BLACK PRESIDENT (oops half-white half-black).  SOOOO... INSTEAD OF USING DIPLOMACY AND DEBATE LETS SHOW THEM BY USING BULLYING AND INTIMIDATION TACTICS!!!  Yeah, that just creates enemies.  If you do not believe me, read Nicolo Machiavelli "The Prince".

[Ponch ®]

This is a quotation from Lord Acton, in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton, 1887:

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."


It is very rare that anybody is immune from the above quote and over time most will succumb to corruption. It is inevitable. Thus you get what we have today in this country.

this is true, but what makes your ideal concept of a state militia immune from this?  lets talk hypothetically.  if a state militia does come into being into all 50 states and are able to repel "a undemocratic government" (like todd stated), then how long do you think it will be before those that receive this newly found "power" will then, themselves, become corrupted.  what makes them any better than the perceived threat you have now?  they will just find a way to screw you over under the guise of your beliefs, so now you are screwed over with the wool over your eyes.  ignorance is bliss i guess.

exaclty...have you not seen "The Postman" w/ Kevin Costner?

[Todd Wilson]

This is a quotation from Lord Acton, in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton, 1887:

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."


It is very rare that anybody is immune from the above quote and over time most will succumb to corruption. It is inevitable. Thus you get what we have today in this country.

the economy is bouncing back, the dow closed at its highest in 18 months, legislation has been passed to insure 30 million americans who cannot afford healthcare...

Not to turn this into a health care reform thread  but the legislation passed" to insure 30 million americans who cannot afford healthcare" is not some special FREE healtcare. EVERYONE is going to have to pay thru the nose and other parts to take care of this. EVERYONE in this country HAS TO HAVE healthcare or be fined. You think you are having a hard time paying your bills now just wait til you are socked with these extra taxes that are coming! You make 9$ an hour right now plan to have some of that paycheck taken away for health care.  You got a good job with a nice health care plan already? Plan to be fined for having a Cadilac Health care plan. That fine alone will be months of income. There have been many polls out there showing the majority of this country did not want the health care plan  yet their elected officials just went ahead and did it on their own. They are now not by the people for the people. They tried different forms of FRAUD during this whole health care reform deal like the Nebraska deal to be exempt and other little pay offs and special things for a few other states. If you or I had tried that as a CEO in a corporation we'd be going to prison.  Whats to say these people in our governement will just say you know what  screw the vote. We are in power and we are going to continue to do what we are doing. If they can do this other stuff the people dont want then why couldnt they do that?! Just stay in office! Screw the vote we arent leaving! We wont even go into the Marshall Law stuff because I dont want you to think I am one of those mis educated bubba's.


Todd

[69DodgeCharger]

This is a quotation from Lord Acton, in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton, 1887:

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."


It is very rare that anybody is immune from the above quote and over time most will succumb to corruption. It is inevitable. Thus you get what we have today in this country.

this is true, but what makes your ideal concept of a state militia immune from this?  lets talk hypothetically.  if a state militia does come into being into all 50 states and are able to repel "a undemocratic government" (like todd stated), then how long do you think it will be before those that receive this newly found "power" will then, themselves, become corrupted.  what makes them any better than the perceived threat you have now?  they will just find a way to screw you over under the guise of your beliefs, so now you are screwed over with the wool over your eyes.  ignorance is bliss i guess.

face it people, violence begets violence.  you show up with a force of arms, you will get the same attention back.  state militias being developed to deter federal government interstate commerce or laws will be considered an act of secession.  The south lost the last time this happened, and the following/backing of the states (and the people for that matter) are not near the same.

the economy is bouncing back, the dow closed at its highest in 18 months, legislation has been passed to insure 30 million americans who cannot afford healthcare... things arent perfect, but they never are and never will be under any administration.  face it, when people are not getting what they want and there is no other reason than, well its just BS and I dont like it.. they resort to violence.  this talk of militias is just a blanketed, under the rug, politically divisive movement to promote something under the guise of democratic or ideological unsound principles.

lets call it what it really is:  OUR SIDE LOST THE ELECTION, WE DO NOT LIKE HAVING A MINORITY IN CONGRESS, WE WILL NOT GET ANY CONSERVATIVE IDEALS PUSHED ACROSS, AND WE DONT LIKE A BLACK PRESIDENT (oops half-white half-black).  SOOOO... INSTEAD OF USING DIPLOMACY AND DEBATE LETS SHOW THEM BY USING BULLYING AND INTIMIDATION TACTICS!!!  Yeah, that just creates enemies.  If you do not believe me, read Nicolo Machiavelli "The Prince".

I would tend to agree with most of what RD said. Look I'm not saying the Republicans are good people. For the most part they are hypocrities who hide behind the guise of religion and morality while showing favoritsm to Big Business and Religious institutions. The Democrats, while well intentioned are focusing on the wrong priorities right now. Jobs first! You grow the economy from the ground up through consumer spending. Not by allowing 30 million illegal aliens to attain citizenship, or ramming a trillion dollar unfunded health care mandate down the throats of the people. Then tackle the other less important subjects in a prioritized order.

And yes the Republican obstructionism is hampering recovery on many fronts. What I am getting at, and what I think many others are saying is that the local, State and Federal Govt are becoming to powerful and are now an actual threat to the way of life we enjoy here in this country. How you ask? This is just a "theory" of mine and one that has been repeated countless times. It seems that Govt. is hell  bent on making it's citizens dependent on them throughout all aspects of their life and becoming more intrusive by the day. This is true of both of the mainstream political parties. I tend to think of the Militias as a "barking dog" not really intent on biting but upset about "infrigement" and wanting somebody at the Govt. level to take them and their concerns seriously.

Sour grapes over the election? Sure for a lot of people, but not me. I actually voted for Obama, although now I'm beginning to question that decision. It just seemed it was the lesser of two evils at the time, but it doesn't matter now. What's done is done. It just seems that there is a total disconnect between Govt. and the general populace anymore. This causes anger and resentment in the streets and people become caught up in a "mob mentality" and take part in something collectively they would never even consider doing individually. Actually I would be more concerned about the "lone wolf" domestic terrorist (most likely a Republican/Right Winger) than any threat from the militias. As I told Ponch I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on certian aspects of this issue. My last comment on the subject is this.

If your not registered to vote in the November elections make sure you get registered. Secondly make sure you actually go out and vote. Who you vote for is your choice, but if you don't vote you don't get to complain.

[elacruze]

Wull, hayll-

Michigan's had a mulisha fer yeers, don't hardly cost nuthin' atall.

lol.. hilarious!  this is actually a militia thought up by the legislators of the state based upon constitutional principles.

Perhaps, instead of coming on here just to make fun of this issue maybe you should ask yourself why everyday citizens across the country have been, and are quietly arming themselves against the Federal Govt? Why they are now advocating organized State militias, not under the control of the Feds? Why private gun and ammo sales are exploding? Why people are stocking up on "survival" supplies? Why people are dropping off the tax rolls and going into an "underground economy"?  Bubba is a lot smarter than he looks or acts some of the time.

Relax, Dood.
I probably own more guns and ammo than you do.

At risk of participating in a political thread, I'll ask you the same thing I always ask people who complain about politics-

When's the last time you wrote, called, or spoke in person with any of your elected officials?

The problem is that Bubba hunkers down away from the government he fears, instead of participating in it.

[Mike DC]

  

When's the last time you wrote, called, or spoke in person with any of your elected officials?

The problem is that Bubba hunkers down away from the government he fears, instead of participating in it.

IMHO they're not elected officials anymore.  Not realistically speaking.  Not at the top of the food chain.  




The system was never fair, but in the past it has been much closer to fair than it is now.  

[Troy]

I think this has veered pretty for off...

Troy