Holley or just leave the Edelbrock

[Sixt8Chrgr]

I have 68 383 HP 4bbl with a 1406 Edelbrock and it runs ok but leans out while winding it up in low gear. Once the vacuum secondaries come in it runs better. I have a 600 Holley with vacuum secondaries and also what I am guessing is a 750 dual feed Holley with vacuum secondaries. I was thinking about putting the larger carb on to see the results. I am running stock everything. Any comments or suggestions?

Thanks,

[oldschool]

i'm partial to the holleys 

[femtnmax]

Unless the carb has a known history, usually you have to tune them to match the engine build.  Sounds like the Edy carb needs tuning...may include jet change, metering rods, etc.   The Holley many need tuning too.
Which is better...thats like Mopar vs Chevy vs Ford...lots of heated opinions.

[71383bee]

I would be warry of overcarbing.  

I run a 650 mighty demon and the smaller carb gives excellent throttle snap!  It is a bit soggy on the top end, but it is a street car so it is not really too noticeable.

Ooops I just noticed a typo...that's the top end...I realize with a bigger carb there is a bit more top end I can gain.  That's what I meant to say anyways. 

[Sixt8Chrgr]

I would be warry of overcarbing. 

I run a 650 mighty demon and the smaller carb gives excellent throttle snap!  It is a bit soggy on bottom end, but it is a street car so it is not really too noticeable.

yea that is what I was thinking too. I dont want to over carb.

I think I am having a drip down with the Eddy. Probably needs some lovin.

[Cooter]

Are you sure it's the carb "Leaning out"? Or....Could it be the Ignition, or something else like Stock Valve springs floating? How high are you winding that 383?...

Agreed, love the Holley's...However, I think you may have other problems..

[firefighter3931]

The Edelbrock carbs are notorious for going lean at mid throttle and often need some tuning. 

Personally, i'd try that 600 Holley on for size and see how the motor responds. 



Ron

[frederick]

The Edelbrock carbs are notorious for going lean at mid throttle and often need some tuning. 

How do you tune that out?
Installing a metering rod with a richer power stage, or do you have to modify part of the power stage by sanding the rod at the appropriate position?

Frederick

[Sixt8Chrgr]

When Ron speaks people listen. For those of you too young that is a spoof off of an old EF Hutton financial commercial.

Ron the Holley 600 that I have is a manual choke carb. Can I put an electric choke on the manual choke carb or is the choke not transferrable, alternatively I just have to run no choke. I am not goint to rig up a manual choke cable.

[71383bee]

I don't run a choke.  Its not a big del really.  If she's been sitting I got to feather it a bit, but after about a minute she's fine.  If I have been running her normal I can just start it up and drive.  The key is to sty out of it tell the car is really warmed up which is just good practice anyways. 

[ACUDANUT]

i'm partial to the holleys 

ME TOO 

[femtnmax]

The Edelbrock carbs are notorious for going lean at mid throttle and often need some tuning. 

How do you tune that out?
Installing a metering rod with a richer power stage, or do you have to modify part of the power stage by sanding the rod at the appropriate position?Frederick

Mid throttle won't be on the power stage yet, but sanding/tapering the metering rods may work.  Buy a second set of rods and experiment.  Also try different metering rod springs.  A heavier spring will open (lift) the rods quicker against engine vacuum, thus richen quicker.
The only way I got my AVS tuned properly for my altitude was to use the cheapy Edel O2 sensor, about $100 from summit.  Was able to tune very well.  Had to widen the transfer slots to cure on off-idle lean condition, so the sensor was precise enough to do even that.

[firefighter3931]

The Edelbrock carbs are notorious for going lean at mid throttle and often need some tuning. 

How do you tune that out?

I replace the edelbrock carb with a Holley 

The Edelbrock "Thunder" series carbs are much better in terms of the fuel curve as compared to the "performer". I would use a 600 performer on perhaps a mild 318 type street build but it's too small for a 383, inmo. By contrast, a 600 holley can work fine on a mild Big Block build as long as the cam is not too radical.

Ron the Holley 600 that I have is a manual choke carb. Can I put an electric choke on the manual choke carb or is the choke not transferrable, alternatively I just have to run no choke. I am not goint to rig up a manual choke cable.

No need for a choke....i never run one. Infact i allways remove the choke butterfly to improve flow on the primaries. It just takes a minute of feathering the throttle and then it'll settle into a nice even idle. Tuning also plays a big part in low speed manners and initial startup. The ignition curve and proper base timing make a huge difference. 

I don't run a choke.  Its not a big del really.  If she's been sitting I got to feather it a bit, but after about a minute she's fine.  If I have been running her normal I can just start it up and drive.  The key is to sty out of it tell the car is really warmed up which is just good practice anyways. 

Exactly...that's how i do it, even in below freezing temps.



Ron

[Sixt8Chrgr]

Ok I will put the Holley on and go from there.

[mjwebb]

I have a 1406 on my 383, richened the metering rods and it purrs and runs/idles great

[Brass]

Quote:
"No need for a choke....i never run one."

Just curious - why is everyone so dead-set against using chokes?  I thought there was no harm in using them - only the advantage during a cold start-up.  Is that not so?  I'm using one for convenience, but now I'm wondering if its at a cost to HP.

[oldschool]

Quote:
"No need for a choke....i never run one."

Just curious - why is everyone so dead-set against using chokes?  I thought there was no harm in using them - only the advantage during a cold start-up.  Is that not so?  I'm using one for convenience, but now I'm wondering if its at a cost to HP.

the choke airhorn and flap hurt airflow performance.you only need it a very short time. most of the time,you dont need it.

[Cooter]

Quote:
"No need for a choke....i never run one."

Just curious - why is everyone so dead-set against using chokes?  I thought there was no harm in using them - only the advantage during a cold start-up.  Is that not so?  I'm using one for convenience, but now I'm wondering if its at a cost to HP.

Chokes are for Exactly what you stated..Convenience...I never run a choke on any Musclecar..And yes, the choke flap does cost a few CFM's on the primaries...Something like 10- 20 CFM or so...

[Brass]

Sorry to have hi-jacked this thread but that's good to know.  I guess I'll eventually kick the choke to the curb and upgrade to the Proform mainbody.

[ACUDANUT]

 Big blocks don't need them, But I always found that small blocks do.

[flyinlow]

So if your big block with a large intake plenum ,no choke,no intake heat and no heated air snorkle starts fine in 30* weather, just how rich is your holley jetted?

12:1 ? 11:1  ?  at part throtle and idle.

[ACUDANUT]

 Good question.  I just use a stock Holley 750 on Big blocks.  Never drive them if it's 30 degree's out. I am a fair weather guy.

[Sixt8Chrgr]

I put the 600 CFM 3310 Holley on my stock 383 and it runs great. I still need to do a final adjust on the air fuel mixture but it is running good. I dont have the kickdown linkage hooked up yet. The eddy lever would not hook up to the Holley, but was able to hook up the accelerator cable. I still need a few more fasteners to get all hooked up right.

Is there a certain way to adjust the kickdown linkage? I have heard that you really need to get this adjust right or you can screw up your transmission? Anybody have any comments about this?

Thanks,

[Cooter]

Yes, you need to make sure it is adjusted correctly as that is what supplies the correct line pressure to the trans when at WOT, cruise, mid throttle, etc...

[firefighter3931]

I put the 600 CFM 3310 Holley on my stock 383 and it runs great. I still need to do a final adjust on the air fuel mixture but it is running good. I dont have the kickdown linkage hooked up yet. The eddy lever would not hook up to the Holley, but was able to hook up the accelerator cable. I still need a few more fasteners to get all hooked up right.

Is there a certain way to adjust the kickdown linkage? I have heard that you really need to get this adjust right or you can screw up your transmission? Anybody have any comments about this?

Thanks,

The 3310 is a 750 cfm carb.....is that the one you used or was it the 600cfm unit. just wondering ?

Glad to hear it's running better, not surprised to hear that 

For the throttle ; you need the correct Mopar adapter to maintain proper pedal ratio. The part number is Holley # 20-7 

Once you have that you can connect the kickdown linkage and make adjustments accordingly. Don't drive without the kickdown properly adjusted or you will burn up the transmission.


Ron

[71383bee]

I put the 600 CFM 3310 Holley on my stock 383 and it runs great. I still need to do a final adjust on the air fuel mixture but it is running good. I dont have the kickdown linkage hooked up yet. The eddy lever would not hook up to the Holley, but was able to hook up the accelerator cable. I still need a few more fasteners to get all hooked up right.

Is there a certain way to adjust the kickdown linkage? I have heard that you really need to get this adjust right or you can screw up your transmission? Anybody have any comments about this?

Thanks,

The 3310 is a 750 cfm carb.....is that the one you used or was it the 600cfm unit. just wondering ?

Glad to hear it's running better, not surprised to hear that 

For the throttle ; you need the correct Mopar adapter to maintain proper pedal ratio. The part number is Holley # 20-7 

Once you have that you can connect the kickdown linkage and make adjustments accordingly. Don't drive without the kickdown properly adjusted or you will burn up the transmission.


Ron

YES...VERY IMPORTANT!  DON'T DRIVE IT!  Not until you get the kickdown working properly. 

Do you have the 1 piece or 3 piece set up?

[ACUDANUT]

 Yea, without the kickdown lever hooked up you will burn out the transmission. IMO that 600 Holley is too lean for a 383. You need a Holley 740.

[Sixt8Chrgr]

My mistake, the Holley is List 1850-4 which I am pretty sure is a 600 CFM.

I did drive the car about 15 miles or so. The transmission is still working, but I want drive it again.

I will get part number 20-7.

Thanks,

[71383bee]

My mistake, the Holley is List 1850-4 which I am pretty sure is a 600 CFM.

I did drive the car about 15 miles or so. The transmission is still working, but I want drive it again.

I will get part number 20-7.

Thanks,

15 MILES!  Did you at least wire the lever on the tranny wide open! 

Man this is NO joke.  I can guarantee you have already damaged your tranny.  You may not notice it right away, But with out the proper line pressure it will FRY it...period end of story.

Most stories I have heard is that it will only take about 7 to 10 miles without the kick down to do considerable damage.  The wire wide open deal is an old time trick that is to be used in an emergency to get you to a garage or home in a relatively short distance. 

[Sixt8Chrgr]

Does Holley part number 20-67 work in conjunction with 20-7 or is it a either or application?

Thanks,

[flyinlow]

[
Is there a certain way to adjust the kickdown linkage? I have heard that you really need to get this adjust right or you can screw up your transmission? Anybody have any comments about this?




Hook the throttle pressure linkage up.  Your torkflight will love you for it.

 I have driven 727 /904 and 518's  short distances with it unhooked using small throttle openings (AKA Toyota

 Preus without a stuck throttle) . Did not appear to damage it.

 At large throttle opening the bands and clutches may slip due to low hydraulic pressure in the transmission.


You will need the Holley bracket for Mopars that Ron suggested. This matches the ark of the carb with the ark of

the transmission throttle lever.

Adjust the linkage so that wide open carb happens at the same point as max throttle pressure.

Throttle peassure linkage should start to move just off idle.

Holding the  throttle pressure linkage at max the carb should be able to stay at idle. That is why there is a slot to

prevent a jammed throttle pressure linkage from jamming the carb wide open.

Test drive: At small throttle openings the trans should shift at low rpms with no engine rev up on the 2-3 shift.

              At medium throttle , med rpm shifts and firmer

              At full throttle , 5000 rpm+ shifts  , firm shift

             Trans should downshift at normal speeds with sudden full throttle application.

Adjustments: If engine revs on 2-3 shift  or shifts early at WOT it may need more throttle pressure

                  If trans shifts late at small throttle openings or dos not want to down shift into first as you slow to a

                  stop it may need less throttle pressure.

 I am not a transmission expert, but this is how I have done it over the years.  

[Sixt8Chrgr]

I shifted the transmission myself for most of the trip. I only let it shift by it self three times or so. I downshifted a few times, but otherwise I let it downshift. Is shifting yourself take some of the risk out of damaging the transmission?

What is done is done, if I fried it oh well...lesson learned.

[Sixt8Chrgr]

My mistake, the Holley is List 1850-4 which I am pretty sure is a 600 CFM.

I did drive the car about 15 miles or so. The transmission is still working, but I want drive it again.

I will get part number 20-7.

Thanks,

Is wide open when the transmission lever is pushed all the way back to the rear of the car? maybe it was not 15 miles but not too far from that.

15 MILES!  Did you at least wire the lever on the tranny wide open! 

Man this is NO joke.  I can guarantee you have already damaged your tranny.  You may not notice it right away, But with out the proper line pressure it will FRY it...period end of story.

Most stories I have heard is that it will only take about 7 to 10 miles without the kick down to do considerable damage.  The wire wide open deal is an old time trick that is to be used in an emergency to get you to a garage or home in a relatively short distance. 

Is

[Sixt8Chrgr]

Thanks Flyinlow. I think I understand how to do it. Just to clarify a point. With wide open carb the transmission linkage should be pushed all the way back towards the rear of the car which pushes the lever on the transmission down. Is that what you are saying?

Thanks,

[flyinlow]

Thanks Flyinlow. I think I understand how to do it. Just to clarify a point. With wide open carb the transmission linkage should be pushed all the way back towards the rear of the car which pushes the lever on the transmission down. Is that what you are saying?

Thanks,

Yep.

As I understand it, as you open the throttle you increase the hydrualic preasure to the clutch packs and servos ,clamping them tighter for high power operations. For some reason the preasures are highest in reverse.

John Kunkle or RD could probably explane it better or more correctly.

Craig

[Sixt8Chrgr]

Well the 600 Holley seems to be the right choice for now.

I got the carb tuned right and bumped the initial timing to 15 degrees and the ole stocker 383 4 barrell will stand up now. I am running P255 60R15 tires on the rear 3.23 posi gears and from a standing stop...then punching it the car does a reasonable burnout. With the Eddy and 10 degrees timing the old girl was a bit sluggish. But now with the Holley and the bump in timing the car runs good.

Thanks Ron.

Lawrence

[firefighter3931]

Well the 600 Holley seems to be the right choice for now.

I got the carb tuned right and bumped the initial timing to 15 degrees and the ole stocker 383 4 barrell will stand up now. I am running P255 60R15 tires on the rear 3.23 posi gears and from a standing stop...then punching it the car does a reasonable burnout. With the Eddy and 10 degrees timing the old girl was a bit sluggish. But now with the Holley and the bump in timing the car runs good.

Thanks Ron.

Lawrence

Right on....amazing what some tuning and a good carb will do for performance. 



Ron