Disc to Disc conversion - will this work.

[stripedelete]

I have a 69 Charger R/T with original (front) power discs.  I can pick up the front disk setup from a 76 Aspen, a-arms, spindles, backing plates, rotors, calipers.  Will this bolt straight up to my charger?  Do I need the booster too or will mine work?  Will I have to modify anything else?

I have researched existing threads, but I just want to double check before I buy it.  Any advice is appreciated.

[John_Kunkel]

There have been some heated discussions on this subject, the swap is a bolt-on but the Aspen spindles are 3/8" of an inch taller than your originals and many feel this causes geometry problems.

Thousands of installations have proven this false but some still cling to the idea that it's "unsafe".

http://www.bigblockdart.com/techpages/spindles.shtml

[Mike DC]

 
Mopar Action (?) finally did a big test on that debate a couple years ago and declared the dangers invalid.  The balljoints didn't come close to binding anywhere and the geometry changes were virtually unnoticeable. 

 

[oldcarnut]

I'm going to ask this because I don't know but why would you do that or is there better advantages for the Aspen disc's over the R/T's? 

[jaak]

There have been some heated discussions on this subject, the swap is a bolt-on but the Aspen spindles are 3/8" of an inch taller than your originals and many feel this causes geometry problems.

Thousands of installations have proven this false but some still cling to the idea that it's "unsafe".

http://www.bigblockdart.com/techpages/spindles.shtml

John, just wondering what are your personal thoughts on this conversion?

Jason

[stripedelete]

I'm going to ask this because I don't know but why would you do that or is there better advantages for the Aspen disc's over the R/T's? 

Fair question, which I am happy to answer just in case I am headed in the wrong direction.  The short answer is price and availability.  Rotors are not readily available and they're north of $200 each.  The calipers and pads are not on the shelf at NAPA.  Rebuilt with stainless sleeves, calipers are $200 + and pads are pricey in comparison.    

From what I have read here, the later single pistons are argued to be as, or more, efficient by design than duals on the 69.  If I went with the original components I may never drive the car enough to wear any of them out, but if I do, or life takes me in another direction for a while, I don't want to have to hunt the parts later and or find out that they are completely unavailable.  

So based on that, am I being unnecessarily proactive?   Guys, please let me know if I have misinterpreted the information I have found here and come to the wrong conclusion. I am not a mechanical genius.  I don't want to make an unnecessary modification.

Also can I use my original booster?    

[hemirr]

I have a 68 Charger, I too read all the threads about disc conversions.  Everyone always says that the 70's A body spindle, caliper setups are the way to go.  Also found out allot of the conversion kits available use these 70's A-Body spindles-caliper combo. Then I found out that mid 80's Diplomats, Cordoba, 5th Ave are the same as the Mid 70's A-Bodies and much easier to find in the junk yard.  So I bought the entire set up from a 5th Ave (calipers are on the backside of disc so wont hit sway bar) for $50.00 at U-pull place.  Turned the rotors, used old calipers for core and purchased new ones, new pads, brake lines etc, total bill less than $200.00.  I got a master cylinder and proportioning valve from master power brakes and now the car stops great.  I used the stock charger A-Arms and ball joints and front alignment was no problem and the car handles great. 

I did a lot of research before I jumped in and the work paid off.  Hope this helps

[stripedelete]

I have a 68 Charger, I too read all the threads about disc conversions.  Everyone always says that the 70's A body spindle, caliper setups are the way to go.  Also found out allot of the conversion kits available use these 70's A-Body spindles-caliper combo. Then I found out that mid 80's Diplomats, Cordoba, 5th Ave are the same as the Mid 70's A-Bodies and much easier to find in the junk yard.  So I bought the entire set up from a 5th Ave (calipers are on the backside of disc so wont hit sway bar) for $50.00 at U-pull place.  Turned the rotors, used old calipers for core and purchased new ones, new pads, brake lines etc, total bill less than $200.00.  I got a master cylinder and proportioning valve from master power brakes and now the car stops great.  I used the stock charger A-Arms and ball joints and front alignment was no problem and the car handles great. 

I did a lot of research before I jumped in and the work paid off.  Hope this helps

Thanks Hemi RR.  It does help.  If it was that straight forward, I may consider passing on the Aspen.     
I am assuming you did not go from power disk to power disk.  However, If might benefit from your research: If I use an 80's diplomat can I use my current 69 disk master cylinder?

Thanks again to for all the posts.  I will go back and reread past threads with this perspective.

[jaak]

Aspen and Diplomats used the same spindles. I have this on my car. I got the spindles, caliper brackets and dust shields from a local junk yard ($40 I think) I lucked up and found a set of re-man calipers on ebay (listed for a Mirada) for $25. I bought new rotors, bearings, master cyl. and hoses from AutoZone. I have the 11" rotors, another thing about the later brakes, you can get the larger caliper brackets and use 12" rotors.
I bought a used bendix booster from a member here for $75, and sent it to Prior brake in Texas to have it rebuilt ($101).

Here is a pic of everything installed on my Charger....


Jason

[b5blue]

My understanding was the big advantage is getting away from the 2 piece hub/rotors that were prone to warp and then crack from heat. (along with saving a ton of money)    I'm sure your disk master cylinder will be fine if in good shape.

[stripedelete]

My understanding was the big advantage is getting away from the 2 piece hub/rotors that were prone to warp and then crack from heat. (along with saving a ton of money)    I'm sure your disk master cylinder will be fine if in good shape.

Which puts you in the market for hard to find and pricey rotors.  I also read that dual piston was prone to leak (hence the reason for the stainless sleeves).

Thanks B5. Thanks jaak

[b5blue]

I would think what you are removing would bring good $$$ on eBay or somewhere to offset expenses. Look into NAPA's Heavy Duty rotors for the swap I wish I had bought them instead of my cheap aftermarket ones! (they are very impressive) 

[stripedelete]

I would think what you are removing would bring good $$$ on eBay or somewhere to offset expenses. Look into NAPA's Heavy Duty rotors for the swap I wish I had bought them instead of my cheap aftermarket ones! (they are very impressive) 

NAPA,heavy duty, 76 ASPEN rotors.... right??

[d72hemi]

these prices are for a 76 Aspen from autozone.com

Caliper $19.99
Core $9.00
Total:
$28.99
Part Number:
Pass C167
Driver C166

Pads$17.99
Part Number:
MKD84

Rotors  $45.99
Part Number:
5314
2 year warranty

[John_Kunkel]

 
Mopar Action (?) finally did a big test on that debate a couple years ago and declared the dangers invalid. 

Actually, Mopar Muscle did that test, Mopar Action (Rick Ehrenberg) is the one who says not to do it.

Also found out allot of the conversion kits available use these 70's A-Body spindles-caliper combo. Then I found out that mid 80's Diplomats, Cordoba, 5th Ave are the same as the Mid 70's A-Bodies and much easier to find in the junk yard. 

The F, J, M, R body spindles are not the same as the '73-'76 A body, see reference to added height above. The '73-'76 A body spindles are the same as the '73-'74 E body and nothing else.

[Rolling_Thunder]

The spindles can be used without an issue on the street- from what i understand the only difference will come into play under severe cornering (track conditions) --- Honestly 98% of the people on this board could run the taller spindles with no problems what-so-ever and never know the difference from stock....     


People tend to grossly overthink some things.

[FJMG]

I have the 11" rotors, another thing about the later brakes, you can get the larger caliper brackets and use 12" rotors.

Jason

I am assuming these brackets and rotors you are refering to are aftermarket or is there another OEM available?

[HPP]

Actually, Mopar Muscle did that test, Mopar Action (Rick Ehrenberg) is the one who says not to do it.

Rick has actually backed off his claim in the last year or so and agreed it is a non-issue. However, he has done nothing to update the often referenced article on the MA website.

I am assuming these brackets and rotors you are refering to are aftermarket or is there another OEM available?

Aspens, Volare, A bodies and others use the 11" disc. Cordobas, Furys, Dipolmat police and taxi use the 12" rotor, so there are factory adapters out there for the big rotors. 11" disc fit 14" wheels. 12" disc require 15" wheels.

The spindles can be used without an issue on the street- from what i understand the only difference will come into play under severe cornering (track conditions)

This is a true statement, and in all honesty, the taller spindle provides  IMPROVEMENTS in geometry in most regards. However, like you said, most people will not notice this. I kind of think of it this way, if you can notice the difference half a tank of gas makes in the way your car handles, you will notice the improvement in geometry.

If you looking at these later modle cars for swaps, you want everything between the balljoints and the master cyldiner and distribution block. The control arms are not interchangeable. If  you have an early style disc master cylinder on your car, you can retain that whether it is power or non power. You want to have a reservour with enough fluid volume to move the disc caliper pistons.

[stripedelete]

I have the 11" rotors, another thing about the later brakes, you can get the larger caliper brackets and use 12" rotors.

Jason

I am assuming these brackets and rotors you are refering to are aftermarket or is there another OEM available?

[Rolling_Thunder]

I think he is referring to the 10.87" rotor and the 11.75" rotor...      both OE for later 70's volares and such

[John_Kunkel]

The spindles can be used without an issue on the street- from what i understand the only difference will come into play under severe cornering (track conditions)

There's a fellow on one of the other forums who runs an E body road race car, he prefers the tall spindles.

[jaak]

I think he is referring to the 10.87" rotor and the 11.75" rotor...      both OE for later 70's volares and such

Yes, thats what I was refering too...the OE spindles, there commonly refered as 11" and 12",  but those are the actual sizes of them.

Jason

[b5blue]

I would think what you are removing would bring good $$$ on eBay or somewhere to offset expenses. Look into NAPA's Heavy Duty rotors for the swap I wish I had bought them instead of my cheap aftermarket ones! (they are very impressive) 

NAPA,heavy duty, 76 ASPEN rotors.... right??

The Napa rotors are much better quality then the cheap ones, mine are cheap (bigger size) ones from India or something and have rusted badly just sitting around waiting for the swap! Go look at NAPA's display, you will see the difference in the two!   (I have A body type spindles for the swap from a junk yard and slider type caliper adapters from ebay, the correct spindles can be bought new from MP Brakes)

[stripedelete]

"If you looking at these later modle cars for swaps, you want everything between the balljoints and the master cyldiner and distribution block. The control arms are not interchangeable. If  you have an early style disc master cylinder on your car, you can retain that whether it is power or non power. You want to have a reservour with enough fluid volume to move the disc caliper pistons."


Sorry for my ignorance and thank all of you for your patience, this thread has filled in the gaps,
but I have two more questions/claifications:

Do I need later style ball joints? (it sounds like hemiRR didn't change them)

Do I need the distibution block? (remember I have early model power disks)
If so, where is it?

[b5blue]

If you have not read the "Disco Tech" article yet, look up the link here in "search" and read it first. (before you buy or do anything) It will clarify and show photos of everything nicely. Your upper ball joints are fine if in good shape. (it's only an issue with early A body's)