Disc to Disc conversion - will this work.

[stripedelete]

I have a 69 Charger R/T with original (front) power discs.  I can pick up the front disk setup from a 76 Aspen, a-arms, spindles, backing plates, rotors, calipers.  Will this bolt straight up to my charger?  Do I need the booster too or will mine work?  Will I have to modify anything else?

I have researched existing threads, but I just want to double check before I buy it.  Any advice is appreciated.

[John_Kunkel]

There have been some heated discussions on this subject, the swap is a bolt-on but the Aspen spindles are 3/8" of an inch taller than your originals and many feel this causes geometry problems.

Thousands of installations have proven this false but some still cling to the idea that it's "unsafe".

http://www.bigblockdart.com/techpages/spindles.shtml

[Mike DC]

 
Mopar Action (?) finally did a big test on that debate a couple years ago and declared the dangers invalid.  The balljoints didn't come close to binding anywhere and the geometry changes were virtually unnoticeable. 

 

[oldcarnut]

I'm going to ask this because I don't know but why would you do that or is there better advantages for the Aspen disc's over the R/T's? 

[jaak]

There have been some heated discussions on this subject, the swap is a bolt-on but the Aspen spindles are 3/8" of an inch taller than your originals and many feel this causes geometry problems.

Thousands of installations have proven this false but some still cling to the idea that it's "unsafe".

http://www.bigblockdart.com/techpages/spindles.shtml

John, just wondering what are your personal thoughts on this conversion?

Jason

[stripedelete]

I'm going to ask this because I don't know but why would you do that or is there better advantages for the Aspen disc's over the R/T's? 

Fair question, which I am happy to answer just in case I am headed in the wrong direction.  The short answer is price and availability.  Rotors are not readily available and they're north of $200 each.  The calipers and pads are not on the shelf at NAPA.  Rebuilt with stainless sleeves, calipers are $200 + and pads are pricey in comparison.    

From what I have read here, the later single pistons are argued to be as, or more, efficient by design than duals on the 69.  If I went with the original components I may never drive the car enough to wear any of them out, but if I do, or life takes me in another direction for a while, I don't want to have to hunt the parts later and or find out that they are completely unavailable.  

So based on that, am I being unnecessarily proactive?   Guys, please let me know if I have misinterpreted the information I have found here and come to the wrong conclusion. I am not a mechanical genius.  I don't want to make an unnecessary modification.

Also can I use my original booster?    

[hemirr]

I have a 68 Charger, I too read all the threads about disc conversions.  Everyone always says that the 70's A body spindle, caliper setups are the way to go.  Also found out allot of the conversion kits available use these 70's A-Body spindles-caliper combo. Then I found out that mid 80's Diplomats, Cordoba, 5th Ave are the same as the Mid 70's A-Bodies and much easier to find in the junk yard.  So I bought the entire set up from a 5th Ave (calipers are on the backside of disc so wont hit sway bar) for $50.00 at U-pull place.  Turned the rotors, used old calipers for core and purchased new ones, new pads, brake lines etc, total bill less than $200.00.  I got a master cylinder and proportioning valve from master power brakes and now the car stops great.  I used the stock charger A-Arms and ball joints and front alignment was no problem and the car handles great. 

I did a lot of research before I jumped in and the work paid off.  Hope this helps

[stripedelete]

I have a 68 Charger, I too read all the threads about disc conversions.  Everyone always says that the 70's A body spindle, caliper setups are the way to go.  Also found out allot of the conversion kits available use these 70's A-Body spindles-caliper combo. Then I found out that mid 80's Diplomats, Cordoba, 5th Ave are the same as the Mid 70's A-Bodies and much easier to find in the junk yard.  So I bought the entire set up from a 5th Ave (calipers are on the backside of disc so wont hit sway bar) for $50.00 at U-pull place.  Turned the rotors, used old calipers for core and purchased new ones, new pads, brake lines etc, total bill less than $200.00.  I got a master cylinder and proportioning valve from master power brakes and now the car stops great.  I used the stock charger A-Arms and ball joints and front alignment was no problem and the car handles great. 

I did a lot of research before I jumped in and the work paid off.  Hope this helps

Thanks Hemi RR.  It does help.  If it was that straight forward, I may consider passing on the Aspen.     
I am assuming you did not go from power disk to power disk.  However, If might benefit from your research: If I use an 80's diplomat can I use my current 69 disk master cylinder?

Thanks again to for all the posts.  I will go back and reread past threads with this perspective.

[jaak]

Aspen and Diplomats used the same spindles. I have this on my car. I got the spindles, caliper brackets and dust shields from a local junk yard ($40 I think) I lucked up and found a set of re-man calipers on ebay (listed for a Mirada) for $25. I bought new rotors, bearings, master cyl. and hoses from AutoZone. I have the 11" rotors, another thing about the later brakes, you can get the larger caliper brackets and use 12" rotors.
I bought a used bendix booster from a member here for $75, and sent it to Prior brake in Texas to have it rebuilt ($101).

Here is a pic of everything installed on my Charger....


Jason

[b5blue]

My understanding was the big advantage is getting away from the 2 piece hub/rotors that were prone to warp and then crack from heat. (along with saving a ton of money)    I'm sure your disk master cylinder will be fine if in good shape.

[stripedelete]

My understanding was the big advantage is getting away from the 2 piece hub/rotors that were prone to warp and then crack from heat. (along with saving a ton of money)    I'm sure your disk master cylinder will be fine if in good shape.

Which puts you in the market for hard to find and pricey rotors.  I also read that dual piston was prone to leak (hence the reason for the stainless sleeves).

Thanks B5. Thanks jaak

[b5blue]

I would think what you are removing would bring good $$$ on eBay or somewhere to offset expenses. Look into NAPA's Heavy Duty rotors for the swap I wish I had bought them instead of my cheap aftermarket ones! (they are very impressive) 

[stripedelete]

I would think what you are removing would bring good $$$ on eBay or somewhere to offset expenses. Look into NAPA's Heavy Duty rotors for the swap I wish I had bought them instead of my cheap aftermarket ones! (they are very impressive) 

NAPA,heavy duty, 76 ASPEN rotors.... right??

[d72hemi]

these prices are for a 76 Aspen from autozone.com

Caliper $19.99
Core $9.00
Total:
$28.99
Part Number:
Pass C167
Driver C166

Pads$17.99
Part Number:
MKD84

Rotors  $45.99
Part Number:
5314
2 year warranty

[John_Kunkel]

 
Mopar Action (?) finally did a big test on that debate a couple years ago and declared the dangers invalid. 

Actually, Mopar Muscle did that test, Mopar Action (Rick Ehrenberg) is the one who says not to do it.

Also found out allot of the conversion kits available use these 70's A-Body spindles-caliper combo. Then I found out that mid 80's Diplomats, Cordoba, 5th Ave are the same as the Mid 70's A-Bodies and much easier to find in the junk yard. 

The F, J, M, R body spindles are not the same as the '73-'76 A body, see reference to added height above. The '73-'76 A body spindles are the same as the '73-'74 E body and nothing else.

[Rolling_Thunder]

The spindles can be used without an issue on the street- from what i understand the only difference will come into play under severe cornering (track conditions) --- Honestly 98% of the people on this board could run the taller spindles with no problems what-so-ever and never know the difference from stock....     


People tend to grossly overthink some things.

[FJMG]

I have the 11" rotors, another thing about the later brakes, you can get the larger caliper brackets and use 12" rotors.

Jason

I am assuming these brackets and rotors you are refering to are aftermarket or is there another OEM available?

[HPP]

Actually, Mopar Muscle did that test, Mopar Action (Rick Ehrenberg) is the one who says not to do it.

Rick has actually backed off his claim in the last year or so and agreed it is a non-issue. However, he has done nothing to update the often referenced article on the MA website.

I am assuming these brackets and rotors you are refering to are aftermarket or is there another OEM available?

Aspens, Volare, A bodies and others use the 11" disc. Cordobas, Furys, Dipolmat police and taxi use the 12" rotor, so there are factory adapters out there for the big rotors. 11" disc fit 14" wheels. 12" disc require 15" wheels.

The spindles can be used without an issue on the street- from what i understand the only difference will come into play under severe cornering (track conditions)

This is a true statement, and in all honesty, the taller spindle provides  IMPROVEMENTS in geometry in most regards. However, like you said, most people will not notice this. I kind of think of it this way, if you can notice the difference half a tank of gas makes in the way your car handles, you will notice the improvement in geometry.

If you looking at these later modle cars for swaps, you want everything between the balljoints and the master cyldiner and distribution block. The control arms are not interchangeable. If  you have an early style disc master cylinder on your car, you can retain that whether it is power or non power. You want to have a reservour with enough fluid volume to move the disc caliper pistons.

[stripedelete]

I have the 11" rotors, another thing about the later brakes, you can get the larger caliper brackets and use 12" rotors.

Jason

I am assuming these brackets and rotors you are refering to are aftermarket or is there another OEM available?

[Rolling_Thunder]

I think he is referring to the 10.87" rotor and the 11.75" rotor...      both OE for later 70's volares and such

[John_Kunkel]

The spindles can be used without an issue on the street- from what i understand the only difference will come into play under severe cornering (track conditions)

There's a fellow on one of the other forums who runs an E body road race car, he prefers the tall spindles.

[jaak]

I think he is referring to the 10.87" rotor and the 11.75" rotor...      both OE for later 70's volares and such

Yes, thats what I was refering too...the OE spindles, there commonly refered as 11" and 12",  but those are the actual sizes of them.

Jason

[b5blue]

I would think what you are removing would bring good $$$ on eBay or somewhere to offset expenses. Look into NAPA's Heavy Duty rotors for the swap I wish I had bought them instead of my cheap aftermarket ones! (they are very impressive) 

NAPA,heavy duty, 76 ASPEN rotors.... right??

The Napa rotors are much better quality then the cheap ones, mine are cheap (bigger size) ones from India or something and have rusted badly just sitting around waiting for the swap! Go look at NAPA's display, you will see the difference in the two!   (I have A body type spindles for the swap from a junk yard and slider type caliper adapters from ebay, the correct spindles can be bought new from MP Brakes)

[stripedelete]

"If you looking at these later modle cars for swaps, you want everything between the balljoints and the master cyldiner and distribution block. The control arms are not interchangeable. If  you have an early style disc master cylinder on your car, you can retain that whether it is power or non power. You want to have a reservour with enough fluid volume to move the disc caliper pistons."


Sorry for my ignorance and thank all of you for your patience, this thread has filled in the gaps,
but I have two more questions/claifications:

Do I need later style ball joints? (it sounds like hemiRR didn't change them)

Do I need the distibution block? (remember I have early model power disks)
If so, where is it?

[b5blue]

If you have not read the "Disco Tech" article yet, look up the link here in "search" and read it first. (before you buy or do anything) It will clarify and show photos of everything nicely. Your upper ball joints are fine if in good shape. (it's only an issue with early A body's)   

[69datona]

i see you guys are talking about something that i have been working on and i would like some input from you all. i have a 69 charger with 73/74 e body spindles on it i have been running 10.7/8 inch rotors for 20 years but now i wanted to change over to the 11 7/8 rotors off of a cordoba what will i have to do to get my caliper to work. i have been using to 70 charger set up with the two slider bolts all these years and would like to retain them but if i can't that's ok, i need help.  thanks 69 datona

[HPP]

Do I need later style ball joints? (it sounds like hemiRR didn't change them)

Do I need the distibution block? (remember I have early model power disks)
If so, where is it?

No, you current year ball joints are fine for this.

If you have disc currently, your oem dist block is fine. It is located under the master cylinder typicvally, where the lines from the master cylinder are split to the four corners.

i see you guys are talking about something that i have been working on and i would like some input from you all. i have a 69 charger with 73/74 e body spindles on it i have been running 10.7/8 inch rotors for 20 years but now i wanted to change over to the 11 7/8 rotors off of a cordoba what will i have to do to get my caliper to work. i have been using to 70 charger set up with the two slider bolts all these years and would like to retain them but if i can't that's ok, i need help.  thanks 69 datona

You just need to find the larger caliper brackets. These came as both pin type or slider type so search around until you find the right match. Your looking for hte bigger cars, Corboda, Fury, Diplomat. Also, you'll need rotors, obviously. I think the 73-74 E body spindles already use the bigger bearing, so your spindles are fine.

[b5blue]

 

[200MPH]

what about power drums to power to disc would a person need a distribution block from a Disc car?

[b5blue]

All you need is a restricted flow to the drums in the rear. 

[stripedelete]

Okay got my $50 77 Volare spindles at pull-a-part.  BTW - A guy showed up after the same part while I was under the car - 10 am on a weekday - what's up with that?

Anyway, two questions:

1.  Do I the use the part circled in yellow (what is it called? "steering arm") from the Volare or the Charger?
     (maybe a stupid question  -but..........) 1st picture.

2.  Can powder coat or paint be applied to all but the shaft or do I need to mask off the machined face?     
     2nd pic  - circled in Orange   (forum search inconclusive)

Thanks in advance.

[HPP]

1) the Charger arm is what you will need to use. You'll also notice that the Charger version also has the lower ball joint attached, unlike the F body version.

2) you can paint that face so long as you leave the shaft portion clear.

Yeah, I've noticed an increase in F bodies missing spindles in the last few years. It used to be no one wanted them, but since the tall spindle myth has been debunked, they tend to disappear pretty quickly.

[stripedelete]

1) the Charger arm is what you will need to use. You'll also notice that the Charger version also has the lower ball joint attached, unlike the F body version.

2) you can paint that face so long as you leave the shaft portion clear.

Yeah, I've noticed an increase in F bodies missing spindles in the last few years. It used to be no one wanted them, but since the tall spindle myth has been debunked, they tend to disappear pretty quickly.

Thanks

[richRTSE]

I've got a quick question, I've got set of '73 Duster spindles and caliper brackets, but I'm missing half of the original mounting bolts. What grade are the factory bolts, grade 5? It looks like they have 3 marks and a logo in the center similar to the ones in stripedelte's pictures. I've already got grade 5 hardware, but I'll upgrade to grade 8 if needed.

Thanks

[BigBlockSam]

this is the kit i used on my 69 charger . everything is in one kit . great price . plus drilled rotors . all chrysler parts .

i kept  them manual brakes and they stop on a dime , great pedal too . . i painted the calipers black  . they look great .

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1966-67-68-69-1970-71-72-CHARGER-FRONT-DISC-BRAKES-KIT-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem483c9da081QQitemZ310254608513QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[Iceyone]

OK, so I've been reading this all with interest too as I want to install disc brakes on my 68. I haven't seen anyone talking about using parts off of C bodies. I have a 70 New Yorker with disc brakes and was hoping to at least use some of the parts on my Charger. Just haven't determined yet what parts will and will not work. Also bought some 70 something A body spindles several years ago.

[HPP]

I've got a quick question, I've got set of '73 Duster spindles and caliper brackets, but I'm missing half of the original mounting bolts. What grade are the factory bolts, grade 5? It looks like they have 3 marks and a logo in the center similar to the ones in stripedelte's pictures. I've already got grade 5 hardware, but I'll upgrade to grade 8 if needed.

Thanks

If  your buying all new stuff, it only costs a few pennies mrroe to get grade 8, so I'd go with that.

OK, so I've been reading this all with interest too as I want to install disc brakes on my 68. I haven't seen anyone talking about using parts off of C bodies. I have a 70 New Yorker with disc brakes and was hoping to at least use some of the parts on my Charger. Just haven't determined yet what parts will and will not work. Also bought some 70 something A body spindles several years ago.

C body parts don't work on B bodies. Bigger ball joints, bigger pieces which results in different geometry, bigger bearings, and I think a bigger bolt pattern.

[Iceyone]

Is was speaking more of the actual  C body brake parts such as rotors, calipers or anything else.

[HPP]

C body rotors have big bearings that are incompatible with B body spindles. They also are 1.25 thick compared to 1" on a B body, so the caliper is a mismatch too, unless you use spacers to move the pads out. I also think the mounting pattern for the calier adapter is different.

[XXSpiralXX]

  Will the parts from a diplomat work on a 72 charger? I have the factory disc brakes and they're e x p e n s i v e!  Wanted to upgrade using cordoba parts but I haven't seen one at the pull yards.

[Chatt69chgr]

As stated, you can either use the spindles from a 73-76 A body which are exactly the same height as your originals or the later ones which are 3/8 inch taller.  Either are OK.  Going to either of these will allow you to use the unicast rotors that are a one piece hub/rotor assembly.  Good to see that NAPA has a quality piece for this.  The Wagner rotors that had been mfg in the USA come from China now.  As stated, if you have 14 inch wheels then you will have to use the 10.87 inch rotors.  If you go to 15 inch wheels then you can use the 11.75 inch rotors.  Calipers for the E-bodys were the pin type.  All others were the slider type.  Both are fine but the caliper adapter is specific to either slider or pin type and to the rotor size.  My experience has been that it's easy to find caliper adapters for the 10.87 inch rotor and the slider type caliper.  It has been stated here that quality brake pads are not available for the pin type but are available for the slider type.  Your master should be fine.  Note that if you need a new one, NAPA has a real good one that became available a couple of years ago that fits the 69 and is for disc.  Boosters for the original power disc brake were Bendix 8 inch dual diaphram.  They are not available from anywhere to my knowledge.  Other non correct boosters will work fine---just won't be what was supplied originally.  A brake hose has been specified for this setup but I don't remember what the part number is.  Calipers need to be mounted to the rear to clear the sway bar on the 69.  Almost forgot---going to the later spindles, whether 73-76 or the J body, etc, use the larger wheel bearing and that is why you can use the later unicast rotors.

[gtx6970]

As long as your changing from disc to disc , nothing under hood needs changed
I did a similar conversion on a 1969 B-body a few years ago. my customer bought everything new from Right Stuff ( it was all new - but A-body pieces )

The problem I had was the caliper hose, I couldn't find one I was happy with that provided adequete tire - suspension clearence during jounce and rebound.

I moved the hose to frame bracket thats welded on the frame rail to the front, and made new steel lines to accomodate the changes

[FJMG]

Just an FYI; for those looking for 11.75" rotor for pin type napa lists p#4885579 and interestingly shows application for the following vehicles only:
78 fury
80-81 gran fury
75-76 coronet
77-78 monaco
76-78 charger
79 magnum
76-79 cordoba "edit"

p#4885563 is the 11.75" slider type shown available on: (I believe this is the c-body type as it is a little deeper and 1.25" thick)
75-76 monaco
75-77 gran fury (I am sure there is other apps)

and of course p#4885566 is the 10.97" pin type

[HOTROD]

I put 79 magnum rotors, calipers and spindals on my 68 - used the balljoint from the 68 (lower) and moved the brake hose braket -running all new lines -my drums were just wasted  !
Sounds like you are going in the right direction