Confirmation on cam choice... Crower HDP271 .. and cost to install..

[russg]

Want to confirm this choice of cam before I jump in to the next upgrade and spend the money..  
Also.. Would it be wise to get the Crower single or dual spring hydraulic kit with this?

383 engine stock 906 heads
Eddy rpm intake
Holley 670 SA carb
Headman headers, 2.5" x-pipe exhaust
3.55 gearing
stock torque converter.. at the moment

Since I'm short on garage space and wife refuses to keep her SUV out in the cold this winter for me to tinker for more than a day at a time  . I may hire the local shop to install this.  They projected 8 hr job including retuning the car when done and $85/hr or $680 for the labor.  Does this sound reasonable?

Thanks

[russg]

Actually, do I even need to get new springs or is this recommended and are there any other items in the valve train recommended during cam change?

[Brass]

8 - 9 hours sounds about right and that rate is less than what I paid.  For a variety of reasons, at this time, I opted to have a shop do the install.  Also, at Ron's (Firefighter's) direction, I went with the Crower 282HDP in my 440 with HP exhaust manifolds.  That cam is one step up from the one you're using.  He told me a bigger cam would be okay since I'm using a 2800-3000 stall converter.  (So you might want to choose a cam with the converter you *will be* running in mind.)  

I also used the springs and lifters Crower recommended with the cam.

[russg]

Brass,
Did you buy direct from Crower or through one of the speed shops?  If and when I change my converter, I'm thinking it would be pretty mild so the car is easily streetable, maybe a 500-1000 higher stall max

[firefighter3931]

Hi Russ, that is a good choice for a 383 and should even work descent with the stock converter. Assuming your converter is stock it should be an 11in unit and stall over 2000rpm. You might even pick up a few hundred rpm of stall speed with the new cam due to increased torque. I would try it first then decide if you need more. 

You shouldn't need more than a single spring with a damper for that cam as the spring pressures are not excessive. The Comp cams #911 will also work with that grind just fine and fits with the factory retainers and valve locks.



Ron

[Brass]

Brass,
Did you buy direct from Crower or through one of the speed shops?  If and when I change my converter, I'm thinking it would be pretty mild so the car is easily streetable, maybe a 500-1000 higher stall max

I purchased through Summit.  They didn't have the cam in stock but arranged for it to be shipped  directly through Crower.

[russg]

Are new pushrods recommended or just the cam and springs if all has been running well?

[firefighter3931]

Are new pushrods recommended or just the cam and springs if all has been running well?

How old and/or how many miles on the old pushrods/rocker arms ? 

Generally speaking i like to use new stuff when installing a bigger cam with higher spring pressures. The HD factory replacement rocker arms are cheap and so are good quality chrome moly pushrods. 

I've seen more than a few bent pushrods and blown thru rocker arms over the years. 

You should also upgrade the timing set to a double roller...another inexpensive but necessary upgrade. 

timing set : http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-2104/

rocker arms : http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/mopbrbhyd15r.html

pushrods : http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/hydbchromemoly.html



Ron

[Ghoste]

How long did Summit guess it would be until Crower ships it?

[Doright]

wife refuses to keep her SUV out in the cold this winter for me to tinker for more than a day at a time  . I may hire the local shop to install this.  They projected 8 hr job including retuning the car when done and $85/hr or $680 for the labor.  Does this sound reasonable?

Thanks

SUV / Muscle car sitting out side   hmmmm Tell wifey SUV's suck car sits inside!
The Garage is the He man woman haters club hang out Man!    not the wife's place    

I have a 3 car garage and a 40x60 shop AND still my wife parks her SUV OUTSIDE! 

Yes 8 hr's sounds like a good quote

[Ghoste]

Yeah, besides SUV's are supposed to go outside that's what they're designed for.  It wouldn't be a "sport utility" designation if it wasn't all weather.

[russg]

Plus the damn thing has heated seats anyway. I'm yanking the SUV out of the garage tonight!  wait, I'd like an opportunity to get lucky in the near future.. damn, they hold all the cards!  The other stall is filled with the kids riding toys, can't win

[russg]

Ron,
Sorry I'm still kind of a newbie, do I need to get the rocker SHAFTS as well?

[Doright]

wait, I'd like an opportunity to get lucky in the near future.. damn, they hold all the cards!  The other stall is filled with the kids riding toys, can't win

Oh man  You got it all wrong man  you got to make her want it 

PW mean any thing to you?

The other stall is filled with the kids riding toys, can't win

WHAT???
OH Man  Brother you need some friends to come help throw that junk out and move the tools and the car IN
and change that cam yourself Its an easy job save your self some cash to buy more tools

[firefighter3931]

Ron,
Sorry I'm still kind of a newbie, do I need to get the rocker SHAFTS as well?

Probably not. Inspect the shafts for galling and out of round. If the engine is stock the shafts should be in very good shape.

wait, I'd like an opportunity to get lucky in the near future.. damn, they hold all the cards!  The other stall is filled with the kids riding toys, can't win

Oh man  You got it all wrong man  you got to make her want it 

PW mean any thing to you?

The other stall is filled with the kids riding toys, can't win

WHAT???
OH Man  Brother you need some friends to come help throw that junk out and move the tools and the car IN
and change that cam yourself Its an easy job save your self some cash to buy more tools

That's funny stufff.....I'm going to build a shop at the new house so i don't have these issues to contend with. 

The cam swap is a pretty easy job....but not in the middle of winter in a snowstorm.   



Ron

[Doright]

I'm going to build a shop at the new house so i don't have these issues to contend with.  
Ron

OH no not you too?

The cam swap is a pretty easy job....but not in the middle of winter in a snowstorm.  
Ron

Thats what the Dang garage is for???

[Ghoste]

Tackled some pretty stupid things in some pretty bad weather but I can't imagine a cam swap in a snow storm.

[firefighter3931]

Tackled some pretty stupid things in some pretty bad weather but I can't imagine a cam swap in a snow storm.

Believe it or not I helped break a cam in during a blizzard....crazy stuff ! 

Snow going sideways and getting blown into the garage while we were running her up...it was freakin cold in there too. We were huddled next to the engine to keep warm. NO problems with engine overheating that day. 

I'm going to build a shop at the new house so i don't have these issues to contend with. 
Ron

OH no not you too?

The cam swap is a pretty easy job....but not in the middle of winter in a snowstorm.   
Ron

Thats what the Dang garage is for???

Yep, me too.    I'm moving in with the GF and the deal is a get to build the shop and she can have the 2.5 car that's under the house. Works for me ! 


Ron

[russg]

Ok goofballs.. I've pretty much done everything myself on this car to date so with enough time I'm sure I could work through a cam change too.  Are there good books recommended to help with this?  I see Summit has a DVD by comp cams for $20.  My main concerns are, does the cam need degreed or just line up dots and go?  Also having to retune the car, these things in the Winter are just much easier if you have a shop, and bugging the neighbors with an idling and reving 383 with very little in the way of silencers on it.   Thinking through the cam change process, what specialized tools if any are needed?  Below is what I received from another post, tell me if it looks complete.




First of all, you will need -

- oil change (go with royal purple, or racing oil, 5-6 quarts)
- timing cover gasket set
- camshaft lube (should come with cam kit)
- coolant (2 gallons)
- silicone
- permatex gasket maker
- a double roller timing chain set (summit sells them on their brand $50.00 i think)

Now what you will need to do... in order:

1. run your car to operating temperature, shut off and remove all the oil (like you are changing it) to include the filter [hint: when putting on the new filter, put oil inside it, will hold about a quart, so that your engine has oil to scavenge from on the start up]

2. bring your engine to TDC on the compression stroke on the #1 cylinder (AND LEAVE IT THERE)

3. remove coolant from radiator

4. remove fan shroud and fan, belts, and w/p pulley

5. remove radiator

6. disconnect battery

7. remove alternator and power steering pump (take a picture at this moment so you do not forget how things go back together!!!)

8. remove water pump housing

9. remove harmonic balancer using removing tool (you can rent these from autoparts stores)

10. remove timing chain cover (dont forget the two bolts on the oil pan that screw into the bottom of the timing chain cover)

11. clean all mating services (this point, your front oil pan gasket will need to be cut away and replaced, the timing cover gasket set will have a cork replacement, you will need to cut it so that it fits fine)

12.  replace the front main seal in your timing cover

13. remove your timing chain (5/8" bolt), but before you do make sure the two "dots" line up with one another

14. put on new chain, making doubly sure the two dots line up PERFECT (bring in cam bolt to hold the larger sprocket in place... gently tighten cam bolt so that larger sprocket will slide onto the camshaft easily), then tighten to 45 lbs

15. put in lower oil pan gasket (the one you cut to fit), and the timing cover gasket by applying silicone to both sides [make sure you have put some grease on the front main seal to ensure no splitting of the seal upon startup], apply silicone generously wherever there are two separate gaskets meeting one another and then reinstall timing cover

16. install w/p housing with gaskets and silicone

17. then everything else in reverse order

NOW...

if you are wanting to put in a camshaft:

to remove a cam you can do it two ways, keep the intake on or remove the intake... i recommend removing the intake since it will be your first one.

to remove your old cam (assuming we are at the stage where you just removed your timing chain)...

1. remove your distributor

2. remove your distributor gear (using a big flat tip screwdriver, insert tip into slot and turn counter clockwise)

3. remove valve covers, rocker arm assemblies, and pushrods (good time to visually inspect your pushrods, or just buy new ones)

4. remove your intake (take a pic to see how your linkage is set up to include kickdown) and valley pan tray (six bolts, 3 in front and rear on the hold downs)  [now is the best time to clean all mating surfaces between the intake, heads and block]

5. remove all lifters

6. remove your fuel pump, the fuel pump rod will hold your cam in its place

7. remove your cam shaft by put in a 8-10" bolt can be 1/2" or 9/16" bolt and SLOWLY GUIDE OUT YOUR CAMSHAFT MAKE DAMN SURE YOU DO NOT SCUFF UP YOUR CAM BEARINGS WITH THE LOBES OF THE OLD CAM!!! Grin  nice, slow, and sure is the name of the game

8. lube the crapola out of your cam on every single lobe and journal (to include your cam gear that meshes with the distributor gear)

9. SLOWLY PUT IT BACK IN USING THE SAME TECHNIQUE

10. get a clean container (i use a oil bottle cut in half) that has oil in it. put your lifters in one at a time and with the usage of a pushrod, pump them up with oil

11. install each lifter in each lifter bore, after each one is in, apply cam lube to where the pushrod will meet the lifter

12. reinstall pushrods and rocker arm assemblies making sure that the pushrods WILL NOT touch the heads at all (if they touch the heads, the rocker arms are not in the correct order, yes there is an order) torque down to specs (cant remember right now)
-------------------------------------
go to timing chain installation at this time
-------------------------------------
13. apply silicone at the corners where the heads and the block meet, and along the block where the valley pan hold downs are bolted in

14. use permatex gasket maker around each intake runner port (more or less wherever the valley pan will touch the heads)

15. put on valley pan tray, hold downs, and bolt down front and rear

16. apply permatex gasket make around valley pan tray that will touch wherever the intake manifold and it meet

17. bolt down the intake manifold (dont forget the last two bolts on the drivers side can only go on after you have the throttle linkage in place, those bolts hold it down)

18. replace distributor gear, applying cam lube directly onto gear (there is a slot in the distributor gear that you used to remove it, that slot needs to be parallel with the position of the camshaft in order for the distributor rotor to line up properly)

AND THE REST IS SIMPLE BUTTONING IT UP...

[firefighter3931]

That's a good checksheet for the cam swap. There's a descent book by Don Taylor that outlines the engine building precess....lots of detailed information and illustrations to explain stuff. There's an excellent DVD available through one of our members that you should strongly consider purchasing. It's the best $30 you'll ever spend. Lots of valuable info on engine building, cam degreeing and tuning your BB Mopar for maximum performance.    See below :


http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,62100.0.html

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,62311.0.html



Ron

[Doright]

I use a "OLD" "Chilton" manuals New ones suck! or OLDER "Motors" manuals never seen a video

Being a pro mechanic I dont get to excited about this stuff any more.

Some one went and typed a nice how too there

Its a bit over kill in my opinion on a few things but to each his own.

[russg]

Considering doing some open road racing which I would prefer over drag racing.. will this still be a recommended cam choice for say a constant 100 - 130 mph extended driving situation or do I need to head in a different direction building an engine for this type of driving?  Any thoughts Ron?

[firefighter3931]

Considering doing some open road racing which I would prefer over drag racing.. will this still be a recommended cam choice for say a constant 100 - 130 mph extended driving situation or do I need to head in a different direction building an engine for this type of driving?  Any thoughts Ron?

That cam would work fine for extended high rpm operation. I would be more concerned with the oiling system at sustained high engine speeds. 


Ron

[RallyeMike]

Considering doing some open road racing which I would prefer over drag racing..   

  Right on!

PS I agree with Ron - and install an oil cooler... you'll be happy you did.