Okay...I found a serious gremlin!! HELP!!

[TylerCharger69]

  As I continue the assessment of what I need for this car, I noticed something.  We've had rain for a few days and I noticed water dripping onto my passenger side front floorboard.  The heater box and A/C assembly doesn't exist so looking up in there to see the issue was easy.  Around the area where the vent "used" to be....(the round hole approximately 10" in diameter)....serious rust.  The vent hole is plugged off of course.  Now....2 questions.   First, other than the obvious bolts needed to be removed from the dash frame where it connects, and I DO know the windshield needs to be removed to access the front bolts, and of course other obvious deconstruction, I notice that there appears to be "body caulking" around the entire frame.  Is this going to make removal difficult, or will it hopefully just crumble or break as I remove it?  Question number 2 is......when you look from the outside of the car into the cowl vent, that piece that's on the bottom,  will it be part of the dash frame as well?.....Hopefully?   In other words....when the dash frame is removed...will I be able to look up from the inside and see the cowl vent itself?   Feel free to post some pictures!!....Thanks All.........Ace

[tan top]

yes  windshield  has to come out  to remove the  top bolts on the dash frame

[TylerCharger69]

Yes......I stated that.....as the obvious!!!  THAT much I know already!!!

[tan top]

oppss doh  sorry dude  , i did not read it properly    
steering  coloum needs to be dropped down or removed , as it sandwiches the dash frame  to  the body column bracket  , guess you have seen the two bolts  either side at the top of the kick panels  , the inner windshield  plastic  A pillar trim has to be removed , 
 

[TylerCharger69]

    Okay.....lmao....those are the obvious things....Let's say....the gauges, steering column, wiring harnesses, stereo, kick panels, glove box and door, ashtray, the bolts.....blah blah blah.....has all been removed....NOW....I see what appears to be "body caulking" around the entire dash housing and frame....Will this make removal difficult  or will it just break and crumble like I hope it will.....And also.......Question number 2.......as stated above.....

[tan top]

 is it black      along the top of the dash where it is bolted to  under the windshield  do you mean  ?   thats the only thing i can think off !!  nothing else    ,  all around the dash frame never seen that before , doubt that is factory    nothing like that in any i have seen   have you got a picture ,   might of been a previous owner  trying to stop a rattle / squeek , driving down the road !  ,  
depending what type of calking it is  , & how long its been on there  , might just pull off  like chewing gum  , or just crack & peel  off  

[TylerCharger69]

Oh...it's definately factory.....it goes along the entire dash frame itself...not the tangs where the bolts go, but where the structure rests against the firewall.   I mean....when all the bolts are removed....will the entire frame just fall?  Or will that "caulking"...or whatever the substance is called when they seal the body...need to be loosened and persuaded  or will it break off and just crumble?  And....once that assembly is removed....can i see daylight through the cowl panel from inside the car?

[tan top]

 
ok  ,  once all the bolts have been removed from dash frame  , just give it a little tug  to remove it  , where welding cloves or somethingas its quite heavy & has lots of sharp edges , as you prolly know by now .   no you wont see anything inside the cowel by dash removel  ,  will make it easier to  use a mirror  to look up inside the cowel  , also removing the windshield wiper pivots , will alow  you to look through  into the  inner cowel area

just had a thought  , you are taking a dash out of a second generation charger  ?? only  you got me with all this calking , never seen it before on the dash frame 

[TylerCharger69]

well....i used the term "caulking" loosely....It's that beige colored crap that the factory used that gets hard as a rock  and appears as if it was applied with a caulking gun....if you can...go to chat

[TylerCharger69]

okay.....i did a search.....the piece where the caulking goes around does not come off with the dash as I once thought.  It's the panel that has the vent holes in it and the windshield wiper armatures bolt to it....so that piece is stationary apparently.   How am I supposed to make a rust repair on that?   Am I going to have to cut the cowl off to access that??  If so.....that really sucks!!

[Troy]

If you are referring to the "stacks", yes, they are a pain. To do it right, you need to remove the outer cowl and repair it from the inside. It sucks because there are a lot of spot welds and it's a big operation. You can repair it from underneath by welding in patches but it definitely won't look stock - although, who will see it? I can think of at least 3 recent threads that mention them but I don't have the links handy.

Troy

[TylerCharger69]

Well, Troy.....I've done some "cowl surgery" on a 67 Mustang (don't slap me) once in order to replace a rusted out "stack". (now that I know what that is called)  I used a cut off wheel around the perimeter of the cowl on the inset and neatly cut it off, and then placed it back on after the repair was done by tack welding it in place and then fiberglassing in the area where I cut, which was beneath the outer body so it didn't show and you couldn't tell once it was done.  I put some washers in between which were the same thickness as the cut off wheel so I could maintain the height.   Once it was tacked in place, I simply removed the washers.  It just sucks that I have to do that though.  It's probably the most difficult rust fix I have to do on this car, other than around the front and rear windows, which is a lot easier to access....lol   I've never removed the dash from a 2nd generation Charger before (or ANY Charger for that matter) and it appeared at first that all of that assembly came off.  Well....I was hoping anyway.....Ace 

[Patronus]

if it were easy chicks would do it...

[bill440rt]

Once the windshield is out, the dash frame is a piece of cake to remove. Only a few bolts.

Yes, the cowl is basically two-piece as you've already noticed: The outer panel with the vent ribs, and the lower plenum which is inside the car where your under-dash vent installs (that's the big 10" hole).

To do an "undetectable" repair, yes you'll have to remove the outer cowl panel. Major PiA, and it won't look stock once you're done due to drilling out the factory spotwelds. LOTS of work involved here.
OR, graft in a section from underneath inside the car. Done neatly, you might not notice it when you stick your head under the dash once it's done. If it's an intricate piece, get whatever sections you need from a donor car.

Removing caulking is the least of your worries! 
If it's brittle enough, you might just be able to use a hammer & chisel to chip away at it. Or, a wire wheel on a drill.

Good luck! 

[six-tee-nine]

Motorcitydak did remove his cowl......
Here's the thread :

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,59466.20.html

[TylerCharger69]

Hey thanks!!!   I got to get a good look at the accessibility of where I need to work...I am planning on doing away with the stacks and tacking in metal where the hole is and smoothing it out.  I plan on smoothing out the spot welds also for a cleaner and smoother result. I'm not putting the heater or A/C in it, and I'll be smoothing out those areas in the firewall as well such as where the fan motor goes and where the hoses go through the firewall, and any other not-needed orifice.  If I need ventilation....I'll just open the windows....lol...I want an extremely clean look under the hood, and I think eliminating the stacks also would save issues later on down the road.  Can you recommend a coating of some nature to spray on that inner cowl to ensure no rust issues ever again???  And also, I can't make it out in the pictures, but is there some place for the water to drain???