Get ready, Chevy Volt due this November. Update!!!

[Silver R/T]

Question is, how many years will I have to pay for this car before I can actually save money driving it? Whole lot. I'll be losing a lot of money trying to pay it off as it depreciates in value. $35K is a ton of money for me and is even more money to someone who's making minimum wage.
There are better option on saving gas imo. Plenty of 90's-2000s car models offer 35-45mpg

[Guns N Rotors]

It's all good.  My main goal is to be less reliant from people that hate me for being an American.  Funding them to hurt me sucks.

I agree with you. That's why I vote for Republicans.

I'll be damned if I'll vote for someone who hates me for being an American and I can't afford to fund the volt.

[1969chargerrtse]

Yeah, that and too bad nobody's buying one:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=132515106

They sold what 250-350 Volts in December - whoa, I gotta hold onto my butt because I'm feeling such a huge "wave of change."  

And these pathetic sales, despite an alleged list of 50,000 people supposedly waiting to buy one???

What gives???

69chargerrtse was all yee-haw a couple months ago about GM rehiring 1,000 people saying what a great thing the Volt was doing for all of us . . . How production of the Volt was singlehandedly going to pull the U.S. out of a 30-year decline.

I'm not trying to be too mean here, but weren't you singing, Oh say can you see? A new national anthem inspired by the "patriotic" Chevy Volt?

Seriously dude, I hope you're getting paid, cause you are one hell of a fan boy for a Charger forum.

No one, let me repeat that, no one without ridiculous amounts of disposable income, is going to buy a $41,000 feel-good car (that doesn't really feel that good) until the national unemployment rate falls below 10 percent at least, and the average American stops believing the economy is two months away at most from another freaking depression.

That, and nobody is going to shell out that kind of coin until gasoline prices are up and stay up for good. Like everyone has said over and over and over, the electric car is older than the gasoline powered car.

It lost back then - for the same reason it could lose again now.

Seriously, Volt fans, if you really want to see people buy Volts, and if you really want to witness the glorious future of electric vehicles, complete with a smart grid, which seems to be the case here, tell your congressman to put a new $5 per gallon federal tax on gasoline.

Otherwise, you don't really want to do $HI% to promote electric cars. Because making gasoline more expensive is the only, I repeat the only, thing that this Volt and others like it can hope for to survive.

And spare me the BS about our "oil addiction" funding all of these people who hate us. You sound like such a repentant Puritan.

Besides, it's wrong, unless your saying Canada and Mexico and Venezuela really hate us that much.

And if you want to stop buying oil from the Middle East, read- Saudi Arabia - which I sense is what you're trying to say - start walking somewhere. Stop driving your Charger. Ride a bus. Take your bike. Get a hang-glider. Buy a camel. There's lots of options, and plenty of that evil Middle East Oil is getting burned up just to mine and build these Volts.

When someone like you is so far off with the information/opinion compared to what's really going, why waste time?
Oh lets start with the first paragraph.

"Sales so far have been microscopic and they're likely to stay that way for some time because of limited supplies. "


" Production for both is slowly ramping up. "




This says's the most about you.

"I hope you're getting paid because, you're one hell of a fan boy for a Charger forum. "  Really?  Are you that shallow to think it's a Chevy/Dodge issue?  Grow up.

[BB1]

 

[ACUDANUT]

 Sell your 69 Charger (if you really own one) and buy your Volt.

[elacruze]

No way! I think this is a significant issue, and the Ad Hominem attacks have hardly begun.

[elacruze]

Sell your 69 Charger (if you really own one) and buy your Volt.

Dude, it's only a thread on the internetz.

What he's saying, with which I fully agree, is that electric cars are technologically viable as basic transportation and with time will become as economically viable as gasoline powered cars. Nobody is going to have to give up their Charger to own one.

Attacking electric cars as non-viable is simply wrong. Claiming that electric cars proved themselves undesirable over a hundred years ago is irrelevant in the face of technology.

[ACUDANUT]

 I know, I was just jacking with him. 

[Ghoste]

I don't think it's 100% accurate to say that the things that hurt the electrics 100 years are irrelevant.  The same issues will still be faced by them and make it a tough climb IMO.  The difference is that the technology and changing world will give it the opportunity to try again.

[elacruze]

I don't think it's 100% accurate to say that the things that hurt the electrics 100 years are irrelevant.  The same issues will still be faced by them and make it a tough climb IMO.  The difference is that the technology and changing world will give it the opportunity to try again.

To clarify, what I mean is that I believe electric vehicles will not be using batteries in the long term, they will use Hydrogen cells. That's just my belief, not some secret inside information. It just makes sense, the technology is already available; it's lighter and capable of more than enough power production. I expect combination vehicles to come first and as with the gas/electric hybrid we'll see fuel cell/battery hybrids then stand-alone fuel cell powerplants.

[Ghoste]

I'm very much with you on the fuel cell.  I think the current electrics are a bit of a stop gap while they continue to develop the other (although a lot of the battery and motor tech advance is going to obviously help the fuel cell cars as well). 

[1969chargerrtse]

Yes guys. That's the neat thing. I talked of this many threads ago. You toss out the batteries and add a Hydrogen cell. There are many Hydrogen cars already on the road. Google Honda FCX carity. Hydrogen stations are being added all the time. We were supposed to build our first one here in Ct this past 2010. Ca has the most and Fl is adding them. The issue always was do you spend Billions on a Hydrogen infastructer with no Hydrogen cars ?  Or spend billions building cars with no fuel stations?  The Volt is one of many to come that will be apart of that Automotive climb. Many all electric and Volt type cars are seriously on the books. I'm thrilled the  Volt is here and look forward to other cool ideas. I really do have a 69 Charger just read my painful thread from when I first got it. And I Love It!!!!!

[Ghoste]

Was there not some issue with the California hydrogen stations recently?  I can't recall what it was exactly but I thought it was something to do with it not going exactly as planned??

[1969chargerrtse]

Question is, how many years will I have to pay for this car before I can actually save money driving it? Whole lot. I'll be losing a lot of money trying to pay it off as it depreciates in value. $35K is a ton of money for me and is even more money to someone who's making minimum wage.
There are better option on saving gas imo. Plenty of 90's-2000s car models offer 35-45mpg

Makes me wonder why few people had an issue paying 100,000.00 for the little electric ( no back generator roadster ) sold in Ca?
I find the price very reasonable. I hear GM is actually losing, or not making money on the car to sell it at that price. I said it before. Wait until gas is over 5.00 a gallon AGAIN. There be a line for them like there was for the loud smelly VW diesel Rabbit back in the 80's.
One mag said they got 127 mpg. Beats the 8 mpg my old Dodge gets. Not as sexy though.  

[Landonsrt]

Mototrends test showed a combined gasoline total of 99mpg.. Which is amazing but way off of their original estimate of around 160 plus that they were bragging about a year ago.. Still love the car. I'm not a hater..

[elacruze]

I figure by the time the technology makes them desirable to me, my GE and Alcoa stock will have paid off enough to buy it.

[1969chargerrtse]

Mototrends test showed a combined gasoline total of 99mpg.. Which is amazing but way off of their original estimate of around 160 plus that they were bragging about a year ago.. Still love the car. I'm not a hater..

One of the hardest things to do is get a handle on the true mpg.  I think the epa is rating it at 99 but the magazine I read got 127.  It's all good.

[tricky lugnuts]

"When someone like you is so far off with the information/opinion compared to what's really going on, why waste time?"

Indeed.

Let's start right there, Mr. Informed Grown Up, whose knowledge is the envy of the world. Praise be to your Internet opinions! Wisdom seeps from your very pores!

The NPR article simply points out that they sold 250-350 Volts in December.

For all your selective quotations, you forgot this line: "It's still unclear just how large the market for electric cars will be once those early adopters are supplied."

Yes, production has to ramp up, thanks for the info Capt. Obvious, I couldn't have figured that out - but seriously, holy Christmas car shopping Batman, at that rate of sales it amounts to no more than 5,000 cars per year.

They've been designing this Volt for nearly a decade and that's all the more they can produce or convince people to buy? With $3 per gallon gasoline?

The only point being, for all the unlimited MPG hype, the Volts ARE NOT selling. Neither is the Nissan Leaf.

According to USA Today, GM PLANS, read HOPES, to sell only 10,000 Volts in 2011.

I'm not saying it's anything against your overpriced Volt, it's just as much the economy being in a world of hurt.

If I were GM I would have done everything possible to make the Volt more like the Model T was - an electric car for the masses, available in one oil-kicking color, black.

Forget the GPS navigation unit, the iPod crap, the power this and power that - forget all of the weight adding, efficiency-sucking options they've burdened the Volt with and make a cheap, reliable electric car that people can afford!

I know, you linked to an article earlier where GM auctioned the first Volt for something like $250K. Boy that's great news, like you said, and a sure sign that they're really selling, and that they're really going to get Joe Schmoe to run out and buy a $41,000 car tomorrow.

I'm not dismissing the electric vehicle outright. There are good uses for them right now, today - urban commuters, light fleet, etc.

In fact, my uninformed and illogical moronic A$$ just wrote a news story about our local state park taking delivery of an all-electric THINK City, built in Elkhart, Indiana. I think the park manager said he was hoping for a new four-by-four pickup truck, but they'll be able to find something to use the electric car for.

Oh and guess what, the THINK is cheaper and gets 100 miles on a full charge, just like the Nissan Leaf - for full, unlimited MPG bliss, even though it'll knock up your electric bill a few notches.

And no, this is not at all about the Chrysler, Chevy, Ford brand loyalty. I never said it was.

This is about you being an overly optimistic cheerleader for the Chevy Volt and getting butt-hurt when someone says your emperor has no clothes.

I'm really trying to be polite here, and I don't want to see this thread locked because it's an issue that people will confront in coming years.

And if it's not about you being overly optimistic about the Volt, where are your links and songs and epitaphs to all of the great things about the Nissan Leaf, Tesla, or even the THINK cars that are starting to be manufactured here in America.

Why are you not waxing poetic about Maglev trains?

It's the same old boss here - you get off gas and get on electric, electric prices go up, and people get on gas.

It's the same story with kitchen appliances and home heating.

I'm simply saying this Chevy Volt is not a game changer and will do nothing in and of itself to solve America's longstanding energy and transportation problems, it will merely reposition some chairs on the Titanic deck.

I'm sorry if you disagree. Oil is scarce, and so is coal. So is uranium. So is wind and solar energy. All that is merely to say that electricity, like oil, will ultimately go up in price as more and more of the six billion-plus humans on Earth rely on it for daily transportation.

Yes, the Volt has new technology. Yes, "things are going to change," same as they always have. Other than that, I guess we'll just have to disagree.

My apologies to you and your Volt. Didn't mean to steal your thunder or rights to insult. 

[1969chargerrtse]

After reading your silliness, I'm not sure you were taught your A B C's so here they are.
A) you've proved my point about you from my original comment.
B) thank God you don't run GM.
C) please do everybody a favor and find another thread to be angered and uneducated about.

[Troy]

Ok, so a long time ago I made some points about hybrids and why they don't make sense for me and my driving situation. They probably apply here as well so I'll point out a few things that stick out to me.

The volt goes about 35-40 miles on battery alone and then takes 4-5 hours to recharge. I drive 24 miles each way to work (not counting lunch or errands). At highway speeds the gas engine runs. My drive is almost totally on the highway. It's not possible for me to get the maximum value out of the car because I'll be running in mixed mode a large percentage of the time.

A Toyota Corolla costs about $14k and gets about 42 mpg on the highway (maybe 38-39 the way I drive). When I ran the numbers the last time it would take me 10-11 years to make up the difference in cost between it and a Prius (at which point the Prius battery is out of warranty) - and that was with gas at a much higher price. A rough guess is that the Volt would require about another 10 years on top of that to break even. I don't have that kind of cash to throw away on basic transportation (and it would eat into the budget for my toys!).

The Tesla roadster is electric only HOWEVER the designers chose the small platform so they could still hit their range goal of 250 miles. The sedan version is a much bigger challenge because of the additional weight. I could drive to work almost all week on a single charge. The initial price is the killer though!

The Nissan Leaf gets around the initial and maintenance costs by "leasing" the batteries. Interesting idea.

Troy

[68charger383]

Question is, how many years will I have to pay for this car before I can actually save money driving it? Whole lot. I'll be losing a lot of money trying to pay it off as it depreciates in value. $35K is a ton of money for me and is even more money to someone who's making minimum wage.
There are better option on saving gas imo. Plenty of 90's-2000s car models offer 35-45mpg

I had a similar debate back in 2005 about either buying a $13,000 corolla which got 35 MPG or a $28,000 Prius which got 45 MPG. Ultimately, the corolla beat out the Prius until you drove the Prius about 250,000. To me that was a lot of driving before you would see the cost efficiency to buying the more efficient green Prius. In CA you also got the single driver carpool lane sticker which added value, but that is a separate issue.

Bottomline, until the Volt is $25K, I think buying a Prius or Insight is similar to buying the Corolla.

[Ghoste]

Those two points are I have long insisted that a great deal of the mfg. marketing of these "green" cars is nothing but a giant public relations campaign.  So far as I know, all of the hybrid and electric cars (I refuse to call them zero emission, how about "not-in-my-backyard emission") to date have to be subsidized through the sale of the companies other models?  And at that they are still highly priced.
Is the research good?  Without any question.  Is the advancing technology leading us in the right direction? Probably and if so, that is a great thing.  Are these cars everything the marketing departments make them out to be?  Only if you are a politician soliciting green votes.  (look what we forced the evil auto/oil empire to do, vote for us and never fear again)

[Troy]

Well, to come at this from a different perspective...

cars like the Corvette and Viper - along with factory race programs - are funded by the sale of other models and the technology generally finds its way into mass production later on. This is a valid business practice and I see nothing wrong with it. New technology costs a lot and can take some time to pay for itself. Use the profits from the mature technology to perpetuate the cycle.

A big problem I have with the "green" cars is that they're subsidized by taxpayers (not necessarily car buyers). Of course, it's hard to name something unpopular that isn't subsidized in some way...

Troy

[Ghoste]

You are absolutely correct on the Viper and Vette Troy, the difference obviously is that no has misled themselves into thinking they have solved the energy issues in some way by driving a Viper. 

[1969chargerrtse]

Along with the points I've already made, this is one I've felt is the most important.

" Is the research good?  Without any question.  Is the advancing technology leading us in the right direction? Probably and if so, that is a great thing. "