Get ready, Chevy Volt due this November. Update!!!

[69finder]

Every aspect of the Volt was thought out 100 fold before it was even built. I never read up on what will happen with drained and ruined battery packs but I'd bet anything it's been long planned and designed. They are the most expensive part of the car. I'm sure disposal or re use is thought out.

Once you get this information, please post it as I am interested!   Saying that 'future technology' will solve the problem isn't an answer, but if everything has been already thought out, then the answer to the battery question should have a ready, easy answer.

Look forward to hearing it!  Until then the Volt isn't the pragmatic answer...

... a $500 Geo Metro is! Trumps it in every category except 'vanity'.    (This last line is a joke!!)  

[69finder]

The only reason I would buy a Volt is because there is almost $600K of research into each one!  For 30-40K, I'm getting a massive discount!

At this point, they should just give them away.  I mean it is sooo enviromentally friendly, it would be the right and moral thing to do right??  (Again, joking, this thread is waaay to serious!)

[BB1]

This thread is a joke. 

Every car in the world can run from New York to LA in a few days, funny your volt can not.  Money well spent? 

Even a model T can. I rest my case.   

Go Cadillac USA USA! 

[TUFCAT]

My negative comments have nothing to do with politics but they do likely have a great deal to do with stupidity.  That is to say the stupidity that sees electric cars as an environmentally sound idea.  If you recall, I was the one who provided you with the link to Bob Lutz comments in which he was speaking as a Republican who wanted the politics taken out of the issue.
Electricity is not the clean renewable cheap source of energy too many people want to believe.  The batteries in the Volt and its ilk are a hazard in their own right from an environmental standpoint and if enough of these cars hit the road there will be penalties to be paid.
If you want to play the patriot card and force me to choose between a Leaf and a Volt, then I pick American.  Choosing between electric and gas, I still choose gas.  FWIW,  I detest both Leaf and Volt equally and I can't recall this discussion ever being about Leaf versus Volt.  Maybe it did come up and someone preferred the Leaf I dont remember and I cant be bothered to go back and look. 
I do agree with you that fuel cells are much more likely to be the future but they are not new either and there is much work to go yet before they can be widely utilized.
As for being stupid, anyone who thinks the electric cars are not 100% political are blinding themselves to fact.  Chevy Nissan et al are building these in the hopes of getting good press so they can sell the gasoline powered cars that generate profit.  It may not be partisan, but its damned sure about manipulating public opinion to sway that public over to your agenda (which for car makers isnt saving the world, its about selling profitable cars) and that to me is the essence of politics.

Once again, (and again, and again...) I have to agree 100% with Ghoste!!  He said it perfectly. But if I was a (rich) tree hugger looking for an electric car to make a statement, then hands down it must be a American made Chevy VOLT.  Any other choice (from an integrity standpoint) is like shitting in your own mess kit.  

[TUFCAT]

This thread is a joke.  

Every car in the world can run from New York to LA in a few days, funny your volt can not.   Money well spent?  

Even a model T can. I rest my case.    

Go Cadillac USA USA!  

BB1, do some more research on the Volt. It can go anywhere a gas only powered vehicle can...just fill 'er up and go.

[myk]

That Prius hugging friend of mine has had his Prius for over 300K problem-free miles now, so I don't think the Volt or any other electric car has a durability issue, as in I don't see them prematurely heading to the junkyard.  As for hybrids and electrics being bad for the environment well....isn't that kind of irrelevant?  I mean, as long as we continue to manufacture and use vehicles at all won't we always be posing some sort of risk of damage to the environment?  Hybrids and electrics shouldn't be seen as the disciples of Captain Planet, here to rescue the ravaged eco system from the evil of man and his machines.  Rather, hybrids and electrics should be seen as an alternative means of transportation that will allow their users to use less gasoline.  Ultimately, it's a matter of choice, similar to the previous choice of diesel over gasoline.  Is one better than the other?  IMO it isn't about that, it's about choice.  

If anyone's touting hybrids and electrics to be the saviors of Mother Earth, then no they definitely aren't, but they do present drivers with a choice with what sort of resource they're going to use to fuel their transportation needs.  Does the manufacturing of hybrids and electrics hurt the environment?  Sure they do, but so does building a 2013 ZR1 Corvette or driving around in a badly tuned '69 Charger/440 with raw unburnt fuel falling out of its exhaust.  I really don't get the hatred for these cars, because in the end they're just cars like all of the other cars out there, and they're designed to move us, not save the planet, that's OUR job...

[stripedelete]

I don't get the battery/envirionement issue here.  Give each battery a unique seriel number.  When one is replaced the old must be accounted for until it is correctly disposed of or recycled.  Give the EPA a call.  They will have the issue solved tommorrow.

With huge natural gas discoveries in recent years, electricity, produced form natural gas, may be a viable midterm alternative.  At any rate, there are going to be more than a couple of "Betamaxs" on our way to the next energy source for our transporation needs.       

[1969chargerrtse]

This thread is a joke.  

Every car in the world can run from New York to LA in a few days, funny your volt can not.   Money well spent?  

Even a model T can. I rest my case.    

Go Cadillac USA USA!  

BB1, do some more research on the Volt. It can go anywhere a gas only powered vehicle can...just fill 'er up and go.

Some comments are so off the wall I wasnt even gonna bother answering. But thanks for taking the time.  The words " tree hugger " came up again. Point made, the Volt which was thought of and designed when gas was 5.00 a gallon is not a interesting new way to get 93 mpg but a political tool. I think it will pull through that and eventually be seen as a great mpg car.

[1969chargerrtse]

That Prius hugging friend of mine has had his Prius for over 300K problem-free miles now, so I don't think the Volt or any other electric car has a durability issue, as in I don't see them prematurely heading to the junkyard.  As for hybrids and electrics being bad for the environment well....isn't that kind of irrelevant?  I mean, as long as we continue to manufacture and use vehicles at all won't we always be posing some sort of risk of damage to the environment?  Hybrids and electrics shouldn't be seen as the disciples of Captain Planet, here to rescue the ravaged eco system from the evil of man and his machines.  Rather, hybrids and electrics should be seen as an alternative means of transportation that will allow their users to use less gasoline.  Ultimately, it's a matter of choice, similar to the previous choice of diesel over gasoline.  Is one better than the other?  IMO it isn't about that, it's about choice.  

If anyone's touting hybrids and electrics to be the saviors of Mother Earth, then no they definitely aren't, but they do present drivers with a choice with what sort of resource they're going to use to fuel their transportation needs.  Does the manufacturing of hybrids and electrics hurt the environment?  Sure they do, but so does building a 2013 ZR1 Corvette or driving around in a badly tuned '69 Charger/440 with raw unburnt fuel falling out of its exhaust.  I really don't get the hatred for these cars, because in the end they're just cars like all of the other cars out there, and they're designed to move us, not save the planet, that's OUR job...

Bam. Well said. The few negative loud mouths are politically motivate or uneducated. So obvious. Go to the beggining of this thread and read all the comments how it couldn't be done, yet I drove the car. To funny.

[1969chargerrtse]

My negative comments have nothing to do with politics but they do likely have a great deal to do with stupidity.  That is to say the stupidity that sees electric cars as an environmentally sound idea.  If you recall, I was the one who provided you with the link to Bob Lutz comments in which he was speaking as a Republican who wanted the politics taken out of the issue.
Electricity is not the clean renewable cheap source of energy too many people want to believe.  The batteries in the Volt and its ilk are a hazard in their own right from an environmental standpoint and if enough of these cars hit the road there will be penalties to be paid.
If you want to play the patriot card and force me to choose between a Leaf and a Volt, then I pick American.  Choosing between electric and gas, I still choose gas.  FWIW,  I detest both Leaf and Volt equally and I can't recall this discussion ever being about Leaf versus Volt.  Maybe it did come up and someone preferred the Leaf I dont remember and I cant be bothered to go back and look.  
I do agree with you that fuel cells are much more likely to be the future but they are not new either and there is much work to go yet before they can be widely utilized.
As for being stupid, anyone who thinks the electric cars are not 100% political are blinding themselves to fact.  Chevy Nissan et al are building these in the hopes of getting good press so they can sell the gasoline powered cars that generate profit.  It may not be partisan, but its damned sure about manipulating public opinion to sway that public over to your agenda (which for car makers isnt saving the world, its about selling profitable cars) and that to me is the essence of politics.

In no way do I find you stupid. You're probably the most educated reasonable logical person on the site. I do think you fall into the political mind thinking group though.  As I mentioned before why can't we. " keep it simple stupid "  ?    The Volt is a car that runs on 2 fuel sources. Gas and electric. On electric it gets 93 mpg. Wow that's cool. American designed and made? Awesome. It's not gonna save the world. It's not the car for everyone, it's just a well built American made car built by some of the best minds out there that gave 110% of what they had.  End of story.
PS. I never said or implied the Volt was an " environmentally sound idea ". Just a cool idea. It was always about using less fuel to save money and give less to people that supply the fuel and want me dead.

[1969chargerrtse]

Every aspect of the Volt was thought out 100 fold before it was even built. I never read up on what will happen with drained and ruined battery packs but I'd bet anything it's been long planned and designed. They are the most expensive part of the car. I'm sure disposal or re use is thought out.

Once you get this information, please post it as I am interested!   Saying that 'future technology' will solve the problem isn't an answer, but if everything has been already thought out, then the answer to the battery question should have a ready, easy answer.

Look forward to hearing it!  Until then the Volt isn't the pragmatic answer...

... a $500 Geo Metro is! Trumps it in every category except 'vanity'.    (This last line is a joke!!)  

Only takes a minute to google the subject.  The fact that you think car companies built electric powered cars and never thought about how they would recycle or dispose of the battery is odd?  

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/31/business/energy-environment/fancy-batteries-in-electric-cars-pose-recycling-challenges.html?pagewanted=all


Toyota Motor, whose experience goes back to 1998, shortly after the introduction of the RAV4 all-electric vehicle, has established partnerships in Europe and the United States to recycle batteries, including from the hybrid Prius. This year, it began shipping some batteries from Prius models sold in the United States to Japan to take advantage of a more-efficient recycling process at home.

Honda Motor recycled nearly 500 batteries during 2009 from the electric hybrid models it began selling in Japan more than a decade ago. But it still is exploring ways to structure that part of its business as it rolls out models like the Insight and the CR-Z.

General Motors and Nissan Motor, whose Chevrolet Volt and Nissan Leaf are newer to the market, are taking a different tack. They have agreements with power companies to develop ways of reusing old batteries, perhaps for storing wind or solar energy during peak generating times for later use.

Bayerische Motoren Werke, known for its premium BMW line, still is carrying out research on whether to recycle or reuse the batteries from its Mini E, an all-electric car it began leasing on a limited basis in 2009.

Meanwhile, some governments have begun to get involved to ensure their car industries are not undermined by sourcing or safety issues.

In the United States, the Department of Energy has granted $9.5 million to Toxco to build a specialized recycling plant in Ohio for electric vehicle batteries. It is expected to begin operations next year, handling batteries from a variety of makes and models.

[69finder]

It's funny you quote that article yet you didn't read it to the end did you?  It says the solutions are possibly viable.  Or they are working on them OR they are only viable for 10 years.

After 20 years, WHO KNOWS.  They are still working on it.
"Even after 10 years of driving, a "second life" of 20 years for the battery could be viable, said Pablo Valencia, a senior manager at G.M.

And afterward?

"We're still working on that, so stay tuned," he said."

Scary.  Not politically motivated, just stating facts (from your own article you cited!).

[1969chargerrtse]

It's funny you quote that article yet you didn't read it to the end did you?  It says the solutions are possibly viable.  Or they are working on them OR they are only viable for 10 years.

After 20 years, WHO KNOWS.  They are still working on it.
"Even after 10 years of driving, a "second life" of 20 years for the battery could be viable, said Pablo Valencia, a senior manager at G.M.

And afterward?

"We're still working on that, so stay tuned," he said."

Scary.  Not politically motivated, just stating facts (from your own article you cited!).

Please go to another thread.  You have no idea what you're talking about.  

[69finder]

Clever way to deal with the problem, GO AWAY!     I tried to be civil with you but it's obvious you only want to hear what you want to hear.  The battery problem isn't 'solved'.  It's temporarily put off till NEW and wonderful technology is invented to solve it.

How does that help the environment?  It doesn't.  That's the problem with you tree huggers and fad jumpers.  Where was this environment friendly fad 10 years ago?  Someone invented it and you're hopping on the bandwagon.

It's just another 'feel' good thing to stroke your ego that you're doing something GOOD for the environment, when in reality, it's just a non-pragmatic approach to a bigger problem.  GM's agenda is to make money, not help anyone but themselves.  Their marketing has you bagged.

[1969chargerrtse]

Clever way to deal with the problem, GO AWAY!    I tried to be civil with you but it's obvious you only want to hear what you want to hear.  The battery problem isn't 'solved'.  It's temporarily put off till NEW and wonderful technology is invented to solve it.

How does that help the environment?  It doesn't.  That's the problem with you tree huggers and fad jumpers.  Where was this environment friendly fad 10 years ago?  Someone invented it and you're hopping on the bandwagon.

It's just another 'feel' good thing to stroke your ego that you're doing something GOOD for the environment, when in reality, it's just a non-pragmatic approach to a bigger problem.  GM's agenda is to make money, not help anyone but themselves.  Their marketing has you bagged.

You're so far out of reality I'm not going to bother commenting on your ridiculus thoughts.  But one thing you said is to funny not to comment ( laugh ) about. " You tree huggers ". Ha, I must of been the first and only tree hugger cruising around in a 8 mpg big ole Dodge classic today.  

[J-440]

 They can build electric/gas cars that get 300 mpg and gas will still continue to rise.  The government and oil companies lose revenue if people stop buying gas.  Supply and demand? My ass!! But if we can get off of foreign oil, hey great.  That and the fact the Volt is 35G's, the President of GM asked Obama (alledgedly) to keep the gas prices high because the Volt was'nt selling well, they also used my tax money to take a bailout when we should have let them go under, I ain't buying jack squat from GM.  If and when I need a hybrid, I'm buying a Toyota.  Non union and built in the South.

[1969chargerrtse]

They can build electric/gas cars that get 300 mpg and gas will still continue to rise.  The government and oil companies lose revenue if people stop buying gas.  Supply and demand? My ass!! But if we can get off of foreign oil, hey great.  That and the fact the Volt is 35G's, the President of GM asked Obama (alledgedly) to keep the gas prices high because the Volt was'nt selling well, they also used my tax money to take a bailout when we should have let them go under, I ain't buying jack squat from GM.  If and when I need a hybrid, I'm buying a Toyota.  Non union and built in the South.

Love Toyota's.  Top line stuff like Honda.  Hey wait a minute, I'm in the union.   

[myk]

They can build electric/gas cars that get 300 mpg and gas will still continue to rise.  The government and oil companies lose revenue if people stop buying gas.  Supply and demand? My ass!!

I've said the same sorta' thing for rising gas prices when they blame it on the political turbulence in the Middle East.  'Whatev!  I bet if every person in the Middle East and all of the world were to drop their guns, religious paraphernalia and start hugging one another gas prices would still go up.  Gas goes up because the oil companies can do with the prices as they see fit.  Supply and demand my ass! 

[1969chargerrtse]

" 'Whatev!  I bet if every person in the Middle East and all of the world were to drop their guns, religious paraphernalia and start hugging one another gas prices would still go up. "

To funny.  Unfortunately that will never happen.  I'd think if things took some high tech swing 50 years from now and it was Hydrogen or whatever that gas and old oil as we know it would drop big time and probably fade out.  They will just tax that replacement stuff.

[mauve66]

i thought diesel was cheaper to make than gas, less refining than gas needs, so why the higher cost??

[1969chargerrtse]

i thought diesel was cheaper to make than gas, less refining than gas needs, so why the higher cost??

More BTU power in diesel.

Density: 7.076 lb/gal (diesel) 6.15 lb/gal (gasoline)

Heating Values: Diesel: 19300 Btu/lb (136,567 Btu/gal); Gasoline: 20300 Btu/lb (124,845 Btu/gal)

American standard testing methods (ASTM)

[stripedelete]

i thought diesel was cheaper to make than gas, less refining than gas needs, so why the higher cost??

I understand it as demand.   The third world runs on diesel.

[Troy]

i thought diesel was cheaper to make than gas, less refining than gas needs, so why the higher cost??

I understand it as demand.   The third world runs on diesel.

We ship most of it elsewhere because prices are higher (especially in Europe). With less remaining here the price goes up. It first happened right after I purchased my diesel truck. Prior to then diesel was 40-60 cents cheaper per gallon but soon went to about 80 cents more expensive (and stayed at least 60 cents more the entire time I owned the truck). Diesel is pretty much a byproduct of the gasoline refining process so you're going to get roughly the same amount for every gallon of gas. A long time ago there were few uses for it so they practically gave it away. Not so now.

I can find plenty of ways to hate on the Volt without being political or ignorant. The primary reason I have for not buying one is that I can't drive anywhere that I normally go except Lowe's or the grocery store and still be within its EV range (I drive 28 miles each way to work, 39 each way to visit my parents, etc.). So, effectively, I will get roughly the same (or worse) MPG as a $16k Toyota Corolla and there's no amount of love for the earth, the USA, or technology that will cause me to make that dumb of a financial decision. I still think these cars could be great for someone living in the city (as long as they have somewhere to put the charger) - but certainly aren't ideal (or smart) for everyone. The sales numbers make that abundantly clear as well.

Troy

[69finder]

They don't want you to make a pragmatic decision, they want you to make an emotional one.  Either for love of the environment (what a joke) OR 'american made' (that's not true is it?), political (hey Obama said so!).

Bottom line they want to make money and the more emotional people get, the better they stand a chance of doing that.

They don't want cool level headed, well though out decisions like Troy just made.  If people did that, they wouldn't buy the Volt.  They want people like well, you know, the guy's who's all emotional and ranty in this thread

[myk]

I can find plenty of ways to hate on the Volt without being political or ignorant. The primary reason I have for not buying one is that I can't drive anywhere that I normally go except Lowe's or the grocery store and still be within its EV range (I drive 28 miles each way to work, 39 each way to visit my parents, etc.). So, effectively, I will get roughly the same (or worse) MPG as a $16k Toyota Corolla and there's no amount of love for the earth, the USA, or technology that will cause me to make that dumb of a financial decision. I still think these cars could be great for someone living in the city (as long as they have somewhere to put the charger) - but certainly aren't ideal (or smart) for everyone. The sales numbers make that abundantly clear as well.
Troy

Exactly.  I don't understand the heated passion between the supporters and the haters of this thing; as I said in an earlier post the best that the Volt or any car of its like can do is provide a car buyer with choice, and which resource they would like to use to propel their mobility.  Alternative energy cars are not about saving the planet/environment, weaning us off of foreign oil or curing AIDS, contrary to what the marketing campaigns or their frothy mouthed, cult like followers would have you believe (such as my Prius hugging friend for example, although he's getting ready to buy a 2013 Camaro LOL).  I see how it could work for some people, and not for others, as Troy stated...