Get ready, Chevy Volt due this November. Update!!!

[bull]

To me it's very simple. I just love cars. No politics involved. I wanted a Prius because of the cool idea of batteries and gas, nothing else. I will say I want to get away from big oil having me by the nuts whenever they feel like it. New technology rocks.

As long as I can work on the car. I don't want to spend $$$$ at the car dealership cause I'm not qualified enough to work on that gizmo mobile

What current model can you work on now aside from oil changes and minor tune ups without a code reader? Hell, half the time you can't even see the engine when you open the hood these days.

[1969chargerrtse]

I was driving my big ugly Ford work van yesterday thinking how I'm almost at 100,000 miles and the only thing this truck needeed was a battery, and brake pads and how back in the day you were tuning a car up at around 35,000 miles.  My 69 Indy Pace car was trashed and left in a field at 33,000 miles.  Cars have come a long long maintenance free way.

[Cooter]

Cars have come a long long maintenance free way.

Sure have...Why the new Ford F-150 With the V8 has 100K mile tune ups and only cost $1000.00 to tune up one ...I mean after all, you could tune up an older car 15 times and not spend that kinda coin.....Two piece Spark plugs ROCK...Yep, technology has come along way when it takes 6 hours to get one broken, two piece plug out of your new Ford truck....

[Troy]

That's odd?  I just saw a commercial for an all electric Nissan.

Did you see my comment earlier about having to lease the $15,000 battery?

but it seems to me the current tesla sports car (baised on a lotus BTW) is what you should be looking at and comparing not the yet to be introduced Volt...

Three executives from Tesla died this afternoon when their Cessna plane hit a bunch of power lines.

sorry, not meant to be distasteful, but isnt that somewhat ironic.. tesla execs get electrocuted?

Yeah kinda.

Shocking, isn't it?

They didn't get electrocuted - they hit a house or two after taking out the power lines.

Troy

[Ghoste]

Off topic somewhat but if you hit power lines and not touch the ground or the utility tower at the same time, wouldn't it be like a bird on a wire?  No electrocution until you ground out?

[Troy]

Off topic somewhat but if you hit power lines and not touch the ground or the utility tower at the same time, wouldn't it be like a bird on a wire?  No electrocution until you ground out?

Yes. In some remote areas power line maintenance crews use helicopters instead of boom trucks. In the past, airplanes have gotten stuck in high tension wires without killing anyone. Plus, if you blast through the line at 100+ mph I don't think there's a lot of time to get electrocuted.

Troy

[Chargerrtforme]

Just read in a Hot Rod magazine that production of the volt was awarded to GM's Michigan plant in Hamtramck. Also the Lithium ( not lead ) batteries will be manufactured further down river at Sibley and Dix. That's great news for that state!  The renovations to the plant cost 336 million.

[elacruze]

Also the Lithium ( not lead ) batteries will be manufactured further down river at Sibley and Dix. That's great news for that state! 

Probably across the street from the Ford Motor Company warehouse, which is on the site of the demolished Detroit Dragway.

[bakerhillpins]

Yes. In some remote areas power line maintenance crews use helicopters instead of boom trucks. In the past, airplanes have gotten stuck in high tension wires without killing anyone. Plus, if you blast through the line at 100+ mph I don't think there's a lot of time to get electrocuted.

Troy

You mean like this? 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tzga6qAaBA

And your still going to get electrocuted if your body closes the circuit even over 100mph. Think Lightning.   

[1969chargerrtse]

http://emails.chevrolet.com/w/webView?cid=13242527538&mid=1180456400&pid=73740&vid=13684&ee=UlBNQUxFUkJBQEhPVE1BSUwuQ09N&si=&mv=H&bv=H&oc=H&sc=&k=16N5NG


It's here my friends.  I told you it was coming and orders are being taken. Make all the negative comments you want but by getting about 130mpg with fuel and 240mpg with electric power it will be a hit. And check out the battery warranty. Awesome.


They say it's like buying gas at .70 cents per gallon, and double that if plugged in.  Make mine blue.

[Tilar]

That thing will make the Edsel look like a huge success.

[1969chargerrtse]

That thing will make the Edsel look like a huge success.

Because you think it's ugly?  Or that most people love to pay for gasoline and get 10% of the mileage it will get?  Remember how you felt back when gas was 5.00 a gallon and sold to us by people that want us dead?

[zoecube]

This seems alot like the toronado when it came out in 1966. I feel personally that in order to get away from our dependence on foreign oil that we are going to have to come up with a new fuel that can be made here and be burned in the vehicles we have now (if that's even possible).

[1969chargerrtse]

This seems alot like the toronado when it came out in 1966. I feel personally that in order to get away from our dependence on foreign oil that we are going to have to come up with a new fuel that can be made here and be burned in the vehicles we have now (if that's even possible).

I think the big deal about the Toronado in 66 was the front wheel drive.  This is the first ever design in our times that runs on electric but has generator back up for unlimited miles at about 130 mpg.  There are several electric cars out there already and more to come, but the Volt has it all.  Many years of mule testing, a great mid size, and after 4o miles of pure electric power at about 230mpg, you get the smooth operation of the 1.7 motor running the generator that makes the electric power for the motors.  This is no hybrid, and I would think everyone would be so excited about the mpg numbers.

Looks like the future may be hydrogen, as Honda BMW GM and many other companies have units out there testing, but this type of electric car can be the answer for many more decades.

[RD]

i like it!  wife thinks it looks cute, so she is sold

[mikesbbody]

I like it too I'm all for high MPG when it comes to a daily Driver car the fact it's a Chevy doesn't bother me one bit I'm all for not paying big $ to the oil companies.

[Tilar]

That thing will make the Edsel look like a huge success.

Because you think it's ugly?  

Absolutely not, Most new cars look alike nowadays. Not ugly nor do they have style IMO. They all look like plastic with a set of wheels to me. Only way you can tell them apart is by the emblem on the front or trunk.

Don't get me wrong I think anything alternative energy to foreign oil is a headed in the right direction whether it's battery, solar, hydrogen or pig shit. I just think in the end it will fall on its face. Partly because it's GM and a lot of people have a bad taste in their mouth of the GM bailouts and government BS associated with it that just happened over the last year and a half. I know I'll never buy another new GM car.

If they would just let people drill here we would be off of foreign oil. Hell most of our oil comes from Canada anyway; or at least it did a couple years ago.

[Guns N Rotors]

http://emails.chevrolet.com/w/webView?cid=13242527538&mid=1180456400&pid=73740&vid=13684&ee=UlBNQUxFUkJBQEhPVE1BSUwuQ09N&si=&mv=H&bv=H&oc=H&sc=&k=16N5NG


It's here my friends.  I told you it was coming and orders are being taken. Make all the negative comments you want but by getting about 130mpg with fuel and 240mpg with electric power it will be a hit. And check out the battery warranty. Awesome.


They say it's like buying gas at .70 cents per gallon, and double that if plugged in.  Make mine blue.

Enjoy the Government Motors Volt.

My tax dollars are paying for it.   

[tricky lugnuts]

Price for the Chevy Volt is $41,000. Or you can lease one for $350 a month for three years. A federal tax credit (for what is already a heavily subsidized vehicle and company) will drop the price $7,500 if you want to buy one.

Personally - I don't drive enough to pay that kind of money to save anything on my gas.

The Volt, capable of charging the battery while driving on the gasoline engine, seems like a more practical vehicle than the Nissan Leaf, which will cost significantly less.

First, I agree it's neat technology. But I think people need to be realistic about this first offering.

It will get UP TO 40 miles on a fully charged battery - it won't do that in extreme heat or cold. I also doubt if the "recharge while in motion" feature will be able to recharge the batteries as quickly or efficiently as charging the battery by plugging it in.

Yes, I've read that the gasoline engine will be able to push the car another 300 miles after the 40 miles on a battery charge, but of course Chevy hasn't announced the size of the gas tank (experts expect it to be less than 10 gallons, how much less no one knows). So let's say it gets 40 miles per gallon on the gasoline engine - that's really not spectacular nowadays. My 1993 Acura Integra got that. Just saying.

Also - forget this talk about 270 or 130 miles per gallon or whatever you're hearing here. Chevy used to use those numbers talking about the car. They aren't anymore because it's disingenuous.

The truth is that the EPA has not figured out how it's going to calculate efficiency for these cars - miles per gallon, kilowatts of electricity per hundred miles - so there is no accurate figure out there yet. And that assumes you call the EPA's current ratings accurate. It gets 40 miles on a fully charged battery. How much does it add to your electric bill to charge the car every one or two nights? I'm guessing it's like adding a third central air conditioner or something of the sort. Beyond that, how often do you run the gas engine, and how far does it get you per gallon?

Yes, there will be a market for electric cars in the future. No, they will not solve all of humanity's problems, nor will they "make us independent" of people who hate us. And by the way, we don't even get a majority of our oil from the Middle East, if that's what that talk of "independence" is supposed to refer to.

And the bottom line is, if you really care about the environment - which I sense a number of people here do not - everyone going out and buying new cars is not going to help anything. You may reduce a little gas and oil consumption. You're going to see highly increased growth in the consumption of copper and dozens of other metals that have to be mined out of the ground just like the coal or radioactive elements being used to generate electricity.

And let's just assume all these batteries are properly disposed of, and not dumped into creeks like tires and everything else.

Another interesting thing is whether these car batteries will have memories like computer batteries - that is, if they gradually lose their ability to hold a full charge if they are not fully charged and fully discharged regularly.

Bottom line for me: not worth $41,000 or the taking of my own money through taxes to finance.

[Chargerrtforme]

Good for GM. Good for America.

[1969chargerrtse]

The last line says it all.

" The concept actually had two six gallon saddle-type tanks, These have been removed in exchange for a single tank at the rear. Although Mr. Farah wouldn't confirm exactly how many gallons it would contain, he said maximum range would be about 400 miles. Later, VP Jon Lauckner told me would be under 400 miles.
At this point I surmise the tank will hold between six and seven gallons, which should lead to a 340 to 390 mile total range. The tank is actually box-shaped, wider at the top than bottom. I was able to see it on the 3-D virtual reality screen (that's not it in the graphic above).
Debating how much total range is needed usually evolves into questioning how long can people hold their bladders on long trips and that fact that gas stations are particularly abundant.
We also know that some EV enthusiasts hope to never use gas at all. Thats OK, because I'm told the car will indeed run without any!
Does the maximum range really matter to you? "

[1969chargerrtse]

Who knows? But it'll be fun to watch.

Found this.


A: A bit of a trick question. For the first 40 miles it will get infinite mpg, because no gas will be burned. When the generator starts, the car will get an equivalent of up to 50 mpg thereafter. One can calculate the average mpg per for any length drive starting with a full battery: Total MPG = 50xM/(M-40).  GM has announced the car will get 230 MPG for the average city driver over time assuming nightly full recharges.

[mauve66]

my suzuki swift got 30+mpg with my foot at 7500rpm all the time and that was back in 1989, we haven't come that far in 21 years
and that one article specifically states that the batteries would lose their recharge capability each year and worse in hot /cold climates
don't worry, all you other states can store your batteries here, just like the uranium rods, nobody cares about nevada
gas would be $1 per gallon if the EPA would let us drill our own oil on our own property

[yeahitsgotahemi!]

The Chevy Volt is a great concept, and will hopefully lead to new innovation. As far as being a feasible alternative to completely replacing gas engines, I think that the technology still has a way to go. The shortcoming with electric cars is the low energy density of the batteries. The plot below (energy density - Wikipedia) compares a variety of different storage mediums. Energy density is a ratio of the amount of energy that can be stored per unit mass. I'll explain what this implies physically.
Currently, lithium-ion batteries are the state-of-the-art, however, compared to gasoline, the energy density is very low, by almost a factor of 100! (Li batteries have an energy density of roughly 0.46 MJ/kg, and gasoline has an energy density of 46.4 MJ/kg according to the previously cited wiki article). What this implies is that for a given amount of gasoline, an equivalent amount of energy stored in batteries will weigh more than 100 times the gas! This means that a large portion of the weight and occupied volume of an electric vehicle is the batteries.  Gasoline is a very stable medium for energy storage with high energy density that we take for granted on a daily basis. Based solely on the physics, gasoline is very hard to beat as far as energy storage, which is why it has been the bread and butter for over a century.        
Now one of the issues I have swept under the rug is energy conversion. Chemical energy from the storage medium, whether it is gas or a battery, needs to be converted to the mechanical energy needed to operate our vehicles. Gasoline engines are roughly 40% efficient. Electric motors are usually higher than 80% efficient. Based on the methods of energy conversion, gas has a potential energy density only 50 times greater than Li batteries, but that is still a significant amount larger. On the other hand, the electrical energy that had to be provided to batteries is not free either. The energy used from the outlet to add energy to the battery comes from the power plant, which typically uses fossil fuels and is not 100% efficient, so looking at the big picture, this still tips the favor towards gasoline as a storage medium.  
Unless new innovations in battery technology are made, I would guess that electric vehicles will not make a large splash in the market. I believe that the Chevy Volt is pushing battery technology, and this may lead to delays in its production. On the upside, this type of product is what stimulates new break through, so I'm glad to see Chevy taking on this risk.  
Hybrids on the other hand, I envision are going to be more prevalent than a pure electric car. It combines the higher efficiency of the electric motor, but still utilizes the high energy density of gas. I suspect that hybrids will dominate the market far sooner than full electric cars will.
On the social aspect of things, gas of course is plagued with a bad rep, but if we did go to full electric vehicles, we might be trading one evil for another. Neodymium is a strong magnet used in the production of electric motors/generators. China currently has the largest reserves of such rare earth metals, and holds somewhat of a monopoly on this important commodity. This could be an important issue if we were to go to a completely hybrid/electric based infrastructure.
I think electric vehicles are a great thing, but I think at the same time, it is very important to be somewhat critical and examine the physics to obtain a sober look at the reality, and unfortunately, we still have a lot of research and development needed to bring out the full potential of this technology. Let's hope for the best, and see what kind of ingenuity the Chevy Volt has to offer!  

[1969chargerrtse]

Your last statement was spot on brilliant. Thank you. That's been my whole point but you said it best.