Get ready, Chevy Volt due this November. Update!!!

[skip68]

I welcome this type of vehicle as it makes perfect economical and ecological sense

  I agree 100,000%.       Who cares how fast they are ?       Speed will come later.      What RD said hit the nail on the head.  These cars ARE NOT intended as a replacement for classic/muscle cars at all.   No need for fighting over it.   I love my V8 gas pig but, down the road there better be something that will blow it away and be cheaper.   I can't imagine that the combustion gas engine is the best perfomance we will ever achieve.      

[Troy]

These are all well and good for short distances in city driving. Where I see a problem is someone driving a Prius or Volt (or any hybrid) on the highway at high(er) speeds and/or for long distances. The electric motors can't keep up with the demand and the gasoline engines aren't big enough. There are many, many stories of disappointed Prius owners who drive 65+ mph on the highway and get worse mileage than a Corolla. This is more of a driver problem though - using the vehicle in the wrong capacity.

The thing is, one of the arguments I hear about trucks/SUVs/large gasoline powered cars is that "you don't need something like that to drive every day - you could take the bus/train (insert favorite mass transit here)". Only, I don't live anywhere close to public transportation and I tend to move some pretty heavy loads on a regular basis. Since the hybrids are aimed directly at people who probably live where public transportation is available then is the argument more applicable to them? If I lived in an environment where it made sense I'd consider buying a hybrid - but I'd still need a second vehicle.

I don't know about the Volt but I remember reading that, to keep costs down, the battery in the new Nissan electric car is leased. If I remember right the replacement cost is about $15k so rolling that into the cost of the car would price it right out of the market. I'd imagine the same can be said for the Tesla roadster but the price is high enough to absorb it (and it's really a sports car to attract buyers who can afford it). I really don't want to know what it costs to dispose of the dead batteries. Last I checked Lithium was a hazardous material.

Troy

[ChgrSteve67]

I can't wait to see what the price and dealer markup is going to be on the Volt.

And the waiting list to buy one.

[1969chargerrtse]

Lots of great points here.  The one issue some of you seem not to understand is it's not a hybrid car in any way.  It has been tested for years in freezing climates, long highway driving etc.  But the point I agree with the most is it's a great step away from oil.

If gas was 5.00 a gallon again we would all be crying how broke we were and sitting down to design a car like the Volt.


And yes RD hit it on the head.  

[Ghoste]

How did it compare in the cold testing? 

[1969chargerrtse]

How did it compare in the cold testing? 

I don't  remember all the details, but it's out there on the net.  I think Jay Leno talks to the engineer about how the batteries are kept heated? and cooled?

[1969chargerrtse]

Ha ha, logged out of here, hit MSN and this pops up.

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/landingpageluxury.aspx?cp-documentid=1127521&landing=luxury&topart=luxury&icid=autos_02100&GT1=22007

[1969chargerrtse]

How did it compare in the cold testing? 

Here's some old info.  Lets not forget it's new technoligy, lets give it the time we gave the gas engine. Centuries.

In the comments "bbm" reminds me that GM has built the Volt to have a substantial margin its battery capacity. Of the 16 kwh of battery capacity the Volt needs only 8 kwh to go 40 miles. GM does not want to discharge more than 70%. So effectively there's a 2.4 kwh reserve available for colder weather. So the Volt might start out with 10.4 kwh available in mild weather.

Also in the comments agesilaus points to a research paper about Li ion battery performance in cold weather. At least with the Li ion battery used as an example the battery lost 15% going down to 0 C (32 F) from a mild temperature. Well, a 15% loss off of 10.4 kwh would still leave the volt above 8 kwh. at -10 C (14 F) the Volt would lose another 10% and might be slightly below 40 mile range. Though I wonder how much heater power would be needed to stay warm with an outside air temperature that cold.

[1969chargerrtse]

Here good battery info about temps.

http://gm-volt.com/2009/01/05/chevy-volt-battery-temperature-control/


The following is a recent exchange I had with Volt vehicle line director Frank Weber concerning battery temperature control in the Chevy Volt.

Does the battery always have some electronics running, even when the car is turned off?
No, there is a real sleep mode.

Did you hear about former CEO Martin Eberhard noting his Tesla Roadster was constantly burning energy when it sat in the garage unused?
Yes, his refrigerator. We don't have this problem.

What we also will do is we will condition that battery for a certain period. When its plugged in and charging, and its really really cold, then you would probably spend a fraction of your grid energy just to keep your battery conditioned so that you can leave your garage or house in very very low temperatures, driving electrically.

What if you leave your Volt outside in the extreme cold?
You could still do this. The battery is fully insulated. Keeping the battery temperature for a while. To keep it just above freezing it can drive electric. Also the car will be smart. If you don't use your car at some point you don't want to spend energy anymore. At that point it will just stop conditioning.

The car will know that? Say if you leave it unused for a week?
No one will want to condition the battery for a week. What's happening at low temperatures depends on what the state of charge is, we haven't seen any major sensitivities. This car could sit there for two weeks, but without conditioning it again, it certainly wont start on electric. The engine would start and condition the battery for a few minutes.

So is there a delay when the car decides whether to start on gas or electric?
It would know this within a fraction of a second. The moment you open the door, the calculation starts, what is the battery temperature, what is the outside temperature and how should the car start.

So the gas engine will then heat the coolant?
It will propel the car and it will condition the battery. The moment you are running the engine you have the electric heater running in the battery.

So there is an electric heater in the battery?
Yes, you can chill and heat the battery.

Do you need to keep the battery at room temperature the whole time it is operating?
You don't have to condition it to that level.

Can you say how low a temperature can the battery go on at?
No. A certain operating window that you have. You don't have to always keep it at 71 degrees F. Ideally that is the temperature you would like it because that is where you have the maximum power output of the battery and you have the best life expectations

[Ghoste]

Those are some of the things I wonder too.  I applaud them for doing it even if the only value to it is to upstage the Pious.  It will likely have a very niche market as far as owner satisfaction goes but it's a start.

[1969chargerrtse]

 
•Don't call it a plug-in, or parallel hybrid (the upcoming Saturn Vue hybrid is a plug-in). Lutz describes the Volt as an electric car that uses its internal combustion engine strictly to generate electricity beyond the expected 40-mile range.


•The Volt is about 400 pounds heavier than the Chevrolet Cruze. GM is using pre-production Cruzes from South Korea, with their transmission tunnels widened for the powertrain, as mules for the Volt.


•The heavy battery pack, placed low in the global GM Delta compact platform, results in a good, low center of gravity for better handling, Lutz says.


•Lutz equates the competition's (Toyota's) insistence on developing nickel-metal hydride batteries for its internal combustion-generated electric to when he was at GM in the early '60s, and the company insisted on not switching to disc brakes because it had invested so much into drum brake production.


•The Volt will use lithium-ion batteries, and the development is on time, Lutz insists. He says Chevy could sell it today, but GM isn't interested in putting a handful of cars on the street and call it "production," an obvious slam at the Honda FCX Clarity fuel cell car.


•Top speed will be 100 mph, and GM expects a sub 9-second 0-60 mph time, Lauckner said.


•"We want people to have a driving sensation that a car can be clean and fun to drive, at the same time," Lauckner added.



•A real production car, Lutz said, means GM expects to sell about 10,000 Volts in its first full year of production, with a goal of 60,000 per year, or more if there's demand, when production ramps up. GM will sell it as both a Chevrolet and an Opel, but isn't talking about any other divisions just yet. This being GM, though, you can pretty much count on versions for Cadillac, and one for the Buick-GMC channel at least.


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Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2008/112_0809_chevrolet_volt_reveal/index.html#ixzz0fkWrwja3

[RD]

i am actually digging those looks.... good looking car if it comes out the way it looks now.

[bull]

i am actually digging those looks.... good looking car if it comes out the way it looks now.

It looks a lot less fruity than a Pious for sure. To me the Pious has the same stigma as VW buses, Subaru Outbacks and Smart cars. It's all about making a statement about how much better you are than the general public; how environmentally enlightened you are and how much more you care about bunnies and the rainforest than all those evil capitalists who drive pickups and SUVs. Not saying that's the case with everyone but when I pull up behind most of the cars I listed above they're usually plastered with "I care more than you do" bumper stickers. It's like Troy said though, these people live in their own little world where they never have to haul anything, tow anything or drive more than 30 miles in a given day. Of course they're ok with it when the cable guy shows up in his 1 ton van to wire in their flat screen, or when the huge diesel-guzzling truck comes to pick up their recycling or when their neighbor stops by to pick up the whole family in a Suburban to go to the soccer game. As long as it serves their needs it's ok but otherwise they're looking down their noses at everyone who doesn't subscribe to their way of life. At least that's how it is here in the socialist state of Oregon.

[1969chargerrtse]

i am actually digging those looks.... good looking car if it comes out the way it looks now.

It looks a lot less fruity than a Pious for sure. To me the Pious has the same stigma as VW buses, Subaru Outbacks and Smart cars. It's all about making a statement about how much better you are than the general public; how environmentally enlightened you are and how much more you care about bunnies and the rainforest than all those evil capitalists who drive pickups and SUVs. Not saying that's the case with everyone but when I pull up behind most of the cars I listed above they're usually plastered with "I care more than you do" bumper stickers. It's like Troy said though, these people live in their own little world where they never have to haul anything, tow anything or drive more than 30 miles in a given day. Of course they're ok with it when the cable guy shows up in his 1 ton van to wire in their flat screen, or when the huge diesel-guzzling truck comes to pick up their recycling or when their neighbor stops by to pick up the whole family in a Suburban to go to the soccer game. As long as it serves their needs it's ok but otherwise they're looking down their noses at everyone who doesn't subscribe to their way of life. At least that's how it is here in the socialist state of Oregon.

Dang, well said, and I agree it ain't no Prius.

[bull]

What's funny about it is that these car companies really know how to play people. These tree-huggers get all wet when someone builds a hybrid or electric car but somehow forget that it's all about the money. But hey, they feel better about themselves (despite the facts) and capitalism forges ahead so I guess it's a win-win.

[1969chargerrtse]

To me it's very simple. I just love cars. No politics involved. I wanted a Prius because of the cool idea of batteries and gas, nothing else. I will say I want to get away from big oil having me by the nuts whenever they feel like it. New technology rocks.

[Todd Wilson]

Look at a train.   They, (far as I know) have diesel engines that run generators for the electric motors.   They are very powerful indeed. 

yep! They do use electrical power and put out 3000-5000HP depending on the locomotive. They have massive wiring. They use anywhere from 4-6 traction motors.


Todd

[1969chargerrtse]

That's odd?  I just saw a commercial for an all electric Nissan.

[skip68]

I just saw that today also.   

[69bronzeT5]

but it seems to me the current tesla sports car (baised on a lotus BTW) is what you should be looking at and comparing not the yet to be introduced Volt...

Three executives from Tesla died this afternoon when their Cessna plane hit a bunch of power lines.

[1969chargerrtse]

but it seems to me the current tesla sports car (baised on a lotus BTW) is what you should be looking at and comparing not the yet to be introduced Volt...

Three executives from Tesla died this afternoon when their Cessna plane hit a bunch of power lines.

I saw something about a plane and 3 killed, and Tesla and said, No can't be?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35440606/ns/us_news-life

but it is.

[RD]

but it seems to me the current tesla sports car (baised on a lotus BTW) is what you should be looking at and comparing not the yet to be introduced Volt...

Three executives from Tesla died this afternoon when their Cessna plane hit a bunch of power lines.

sorry, not meant to be distasteful, but isnt that somewhat ironic.. tesla execs get electrocuted?

[1969chargerrtse]

but it seems to me the current tesla sports car (baised on a lotus BTW) is what you should be looking at and comparing not the yet to be introduced Volt...

Three executives from Tesla died this afternoon when their Cessna plane hit a bunch of power lines.

sorry, not meant to be distasteful, but isnt that somewhat ironic.. tesla execs get electrocuted?

Yeah kinda.

[bull]

but it seems to me the current tesla sports car (baised on a lotus BTW) is what you should be looking at and comparing not the yet to be introduced Volt...

Three executives from Tesla died this afternoon when their Cessna plane hit a bunch of power lines.

sorry, not meant to be distasteful, but isnt that somewhat ironic.. tesla execs get electrocuted?

Yeah kinda.

Shocking, isn't it?

[Silver R/T]

To me it's very simple. I just love cars. No politics involved. I wanted a Prius because of the cool idea of batteries and gas, nothing else. I will say I want to get away from big oil having me by the nuts whenever they feel like it. New technology rocks.

As long as I can work on the car. I don't want to spend $$$$ at the car dealership cause I'm not qualified enough to work on that gizmo mobile