69 Charger 500's with Vinyl Tops.

[PocketThunder]

Ok, so i have a 69 Charger 500 with a Vinyl Top.  When i bought it i was told that there were 3 500's that left Creative Industries with VT's.  I would tell this to my friends when talking about my car but never had any way to prove it.  Then, i got some pictures of asv457's car and it started to come together. 

asv457' has a 69 500 with a vinly top, his car is in the 1st picture.  Notice the trim below the window is a couple inches below the rear window, almost centered between the window and the deck lid.  This trim on the other 3 cars that i know of with VT's is just one inch below the rear window.  Therefor, i can now assume that my car, the red one, and 69_500's dads blue car were the 3 that left Creative Industries with VT's. 

What do you think?  Does this sound like a probable scenario?

[69_500]

Well here in a little bit I'll scan in a picture of the Red HEMI 500 with the vinyl top. The Q5 car I don't think was factory. The Red Hemi car was also my dad's car, but I think it was put on at Creative.

[PocketThunder]

Damn dude you're fast........ er, wait, thats right you dont have a job....

[69_500]

yeah and I happened to be on here, just thinking about some 500 info.

[69_500]

How is that for productive. Is that a better shot of the chrome trim piece around the rear window for you?

[PocketThunder]

Yes.  is that the same car as the red one in my post?  Or is there 2 red ones?

[69_500]

Same car. It was my dad's. That is in our garage when he had it.

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Dont know if this is the same car but someone posted this on Moparts....it was in a book

[THE CHARGER PUNK]

at a mopar show earlier this summer there was a beat-up 69 all original f8 green daytona SE with black interior and stripe,earlier on in life it had its nose and wing stolen  so now it wears a cheesy primered gray nose cone w/ out headlights and a black wing. neway the car has all that gluey shit all over the roof and has parts of the trim on it which indicates it wore a vinyl top at one time my buddy tells me it was amod top vinyl roof car-MATT

[TheGhost]

at a mopar show earlier this summer there was a beat-up 69 all original f8 green daytona SE with black interior and stripe,earlier on in life it had its nose and wing stolen  so now it wears a cheesy primered gray nose cone w/ out headlights and a black wing. neway the car has all that gluey shit all over the roof and has parts of the trim on it which indicates it wore a vinyl top at one time my buddy tells me it was amod top vinyl roof car-MATT

They didn't make any Mod Top Daytonas, that I'm aware of...

[69_500]

Chris, that is the same 500. That was I believe one of the photo's in the magazine Automotive Quarterly that had just came out the day my dad bought the car in California.

[69_500]

I have seen a few Daytona's that had dealership intalled half vinyl tops as well as full vinyl tops. Never seen any with a mod top vinyl however. Maybe Dave has, but I haven't.

Then again haven't seen too awful many SE Daytona's either. Can only think of a handful of those too.

[73rallye440magnum]

interesting topic. That pick with the old daytona and the 500 is cool P-T. where is that from?

[BigBlockSam]

talk about a rare trim item. try to find one of those trim for sale.

[PocketThunder]

interesting topic. That pick with the old daytona and the 500 is cool P-T. where is that from?

That picture belongs to 69_500.  i think thats his sister in the picture.

talk about a rare trim item. try to find one of those trim for sale.

Ya no kidding!  i was glad they had it when i bought the car....  although i think its some generic trim that was hand bent, that could be easily replaced.

[69_500]

Yeah the picture of Q5 Charger 500 and the Red Daytona was in my backyard when I was little. The little girl in the picture is my older sister. That picture was taken in about 1981 I think, in Fortville Indiana. Now the pictures of the Red HEMI 500 with the vinyl top in the garage were taken in 1983 at our house in Woodburry Indiana. By the way the Red Daytona in the picture is now in a magazine just about every month. Can anyone guess what magazine?



Okay since I don't think anyone would get it except maybe OneBadSuperbird its the Red Daytona in the Paddocks add every month. The daytona that is missing the tail stripe. Because when my dad sold  the car the new owner painted the car, and the wing, but never installed a stripe.

As far as the Chrome that goes along the vinyl tops, I was always  told that was a pretty generic piece. That dealerships had those pieces. Because a lot of dealerships installed vinyl tops on cars and such.

[THE CHARGER PUNK]

well i will get pics of the 69 se F8 daytona i took pics but cannot find them-MATT

[Highbanked Hauler]

 When I worked at a  dealership in the early 70s they used to have an outfit come in and do 5-10 cars at a time.Some were new and some were used but they all got the aftermarket moulding when they got the top.The stuff was aluminum and came in a full roll of about 2ft.around. No idea if you can still get it.

[Ghoste]

Just as an aside, how many of you like the look of the vinyl top on the 500?
I'm not crazy about it myself but that's just me.

[Highbanked Hauler]

 If it came through with one I'd put another one on.I think a regular charger(without the flush window) looks good with one.

[Ghoste]

Oh I'm in full agreement with that.  And if I had the choice between two otherwise identical and equally priced cars, I might pick the vinyl just due to rarity, but I still like the appearance better without it.

[Blakcharger440]

Hmmm....Maybe you can learn me some things about 69 Charger 500's and Daytonas.
Wouldnt the build sheet say the car came with a vinyl top??? Or would it not list it due to the car being further produced by Creative Industries and thus the vinyl top not showing up on the build sheet??

And further more how can you be sure or assume that any cars came out of creative industries wearing vinyl tops at all since no serious documentation exists??? Or does there?
I mean if there wasnt any documentation on the build sheet of what creative industries did to the cars how can you be certain of any other options beside the fact of it being a 69 Charger 500 or Daytona.

Just curious and please inform me as I want to learn more about this. Thanks! 

[hemigeno]

Hmmm....Maybe you can learn me some things about 69 Charger 500's and Daytonas.
Wouldnt the build sheet say the car came with a vinyl top??? Or would it not list it due to the car being further produced by Creative Industries and thus the vinyl top not showing up on the build sheet??

And further more how can you be sure or assume that any cars came out of creative industries wearing vinyl tops at all since no serious documentation exists??? Or does there?
I mean if there wasnt any documentation on the build sheet of what creative industries did to the cars how can you be certain of any other options beside the fact of it being a 69 Charger 500 or Daytona.

Just curious and please inform me as I want to learn more about this. Thanks!  

You're on the right track, Blak...

If it wasn't installed at Hamtramck, it won't be on the fender tag or the build sheet.  Period.  If someone had specifically ordered that, it might be on a Dealer's Order Sheet somewhere, but it wasn't supposed to be an available option.  I have two specific pieces of documentation which say it was NOT available.  The fact that documents from that era at Creative Industry are pretty much non-existent, means you're absolutely correct about it being difficult to be sure that a car was "supposed" to have a vinyl top. 

It seems like there were at least a few cars that did get the V-top from Creative, and I wouldn't argue those cars' legitimacy.  But the backup documentation isn't there to show which cars were supposed to get it, if any at all. 

[hemi68charger]

Hmmm....Maybe you can learn me some things about 69 Charger 500's and Daytonas.
Wouldnt the build sheet say the car came with a vinyl top??? Or would it not list it due to the car being further produced by Creative Industries and thus the vinyl top not showing up on the build sheet??

And further more how can you be sure or assume that any cars came out of creative industries wearing vinyl tops at all since no serious documentation exists??? Or does there?
I mean if there wasnt any documentation on the build sheet of what creative industries did to the cars how can you be certain of any other options beside the fact of it being a 69 Charger 500 or Daytona.

Just curious and please inform me as I want to learn more about this. Thanks! 

As far as what documentation there is out there? That's the Holy Grail for this hobby... As far as C500's and Daytonas, all their broadcast sheets and window stickers wouldn't have stated vinyl roof for by Chrysler's orders, it wasn't supposed to be offered...... Best my recollection........ Now, I know there are instances where a dealer installed them, but any coming out of Creative would be another story although I can not disregard any possiblity...

Troy

[hemi68charger]

Geno, you're starting to scare me,,, We replied at exactly the same time practically..   

Troy

[hemigeno]

Geno, you're starting to scare me,,, We replied at exactly the same time practically..     

Troy

I guess we're just members of the Aero "Collective"



Resistance is futile...

[Hemidoug]

I know of the whereabouts of another C500 with a vinyl top. I've been trying to pry it out of the hands of the current owner. I will try to get some pictures of it and post them in the future. It is A4, black top,stripe,gut, 440 auto, a/c, power everything. It still has the trim for the top on it as well as some of the vinyl top. I'm not sure if it was installed at the dealer or not, but someone went to alot of trouble to produce the unusual trim needed for the the top! I  would think more than just a handfull of cars were intended for vinyl tops if they produced the trim.

[hemi68charger]

Geno, you're starting to scare me,,, We replied at exactly the same time practically..   

Troy

I guess we're just members of the Aero "Collective"



Resistance is futile...

I love it !!!!   

Mopar-Borg...

Hey Doug, man, I love that A4 Hemi......   Crossing my fingers that one day you'll get it and be a C500 owner and part of the "Collective" as well......

Troy

[69_500]

Ah so another C500 with vinyl top is on the radar screen? Hope ya do wind up with the car Doug. It would look great next to the R/T.

I personally don't think that Creative Industries installed any of the vinyl tops. Well I guess I am not sure on that. I think that some might have had vinyl tops on them before leaving to go to a dealership, but I don't know if Creative installed them or if they subed that work out to someone else.

[Ghoste]

You're going to have to try to find someone who worked at Creative back then and ask them.

[Hemidoug]

Hey Doug, man, I love that A4 Hemi......     Crossing my fingers that one day you'll get it and be a C500 owner and part of the "Collective" as well......

Troy

Hey Troy,
Yea, I'm trying like hell! She sure would make a nice bookend to the 69 R/T. He keeps telling me the "I'm going to restore it someday" line. He has a lot of iron laying around, including 2 69 R/Ts, 1 70 R/T, and 2 C500s (one of which is the car in question). I don't know when he will find the time or money. Every time I see the car it is a little farther down the "crusher" road. I don't want to push him too hard, he is a good friend of mine, it's just hard to see a car like that, in the condition like that, and not be able to save it!

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

Doug, same guy with the 70 AirGrabber Charger?  Still need to see that beauty in person!

[Hemidoug]

Doug, same guy with the 70 AirGrabber Charger?   Still need to see that beauty in person!

No, someone else I've known for along time. He has a STUNNING 69 R/T SE that just needs some odds and ends but he hasn't had time to finnish it for 5 or 6 years. He also has a 69 R/T that is the same color as yours that he uses as a daily driver. It is a true survivor and it looks it! The rest of the lot is in need of serious work. The only one in the garage is the one thats 80% complete, all the others are stored outside in the weather rain or shine. The one C500 is beyond resto, as a tree fell on it before he aquired it and crushed the roof, not to mention is completely rotted out. It's only a parts car now. I will try to get over for a vist soon and get some pics. It's a true "cars and barns" story!

[Just 6T9 CHGR]

See if you can get him to register the cars!!!

[69_500]

I was going to say, it would be great to get the info off of the parts 500, just to put a tag on it, so that in case 20 years down the road someone clones a car and tries to pass it off as  that car.

[Ghoste]

Very good idea.  The prices of these things are just getting to high for the con artists to resist.

[69_500]

Oh and as far as talking to someone who was at Creative Industries back in 1969, working on that too. Hoping to be able to get the talk with the worker on tape so that I can reference it in the future.

Talked to one guy this year, am  trying to get him to divulge more info to me.

[Ghoste]

That would be a video presentation I'm sure you could sell.  I know I'd buy one.

[Hemidoug]

I was going to say, it would be great to get the info off of the parts 500, just to put a tag on it, so that in case 20 years down the road someone clones a car and tries to pass it off as   that car.

In this particular situation, I have a feeling that will be the final resting place for that car, VIN and all . He isn't the type of person to part with the vin even if the body disappears. I will get the info up in the Registry when I get some pics. I've been meaning to do that for a while now.

[69_500]

Glad to see you posting on here now too Doug. I was missing your HEMI Charger. Love  that color combination. It was great meeting up with you at Englishtown, and at Carlisle this year.

[Hemidoug]

Glad to see you posting on here now too Doug. I was missing your HEMI Charger. Love   that color combination. It was great meeting up with you at Englishtown, and at Carlisle this year.

Yea, it's been a while hasn't it. I'm starting to have a little more free time now, so I guess I'll spend some of it with my brothers over here! Glad to be back! Look me up again, we will have to have a beer at Charlisle this year! I hope to have both cars there this year (if all goes well with the 71 that is!)

[hemi68charger]

Glad to see you posting on here now too Doug. I was missing your HEMI Charger. Love  that color combination. It was great meeting up with you at Englishtown, and at Carlisle this year.

Yea, it's been a while hasn't it. I'm starting to have a little more free time now, so I guess I'll spend some of it with my brothers over here! Glad to be back! Look me up again, we will have to have a beer at Charlisle this year! I hope to have both cars there this year (if all goes well with the 71 that is!)

I feel so left out down here in Houston...

Troy

[Hemidoug]

I feel so left out down here in Houston...

Troy

Ya know.....if'n ya want to get your Tex-as up here for Carlisle, ya got a place to stay (that is if you can "hang" with a jar head)! You can even visit your old friend "Whitey" (just make sure you bring the 500 with you and I'll get you the airline ticket back lol).

[hemi68charger]

I feel so left out down here in Houston...

Troy

Ya know.....if'n ya want to get your Tex-as up here for Carlisle, ya got a place to stay (that is if you can "hang" with a jar head)! You can even visit your old friend "Whitey" (just make sure you bring the 500 with you and I'll get you the airline ticket back lol).

Semper Fi  ......  That's all I'll say...... lol
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Well, maybe not...... I would love to try and hang but not sure about seeing Whitey..... Maybe if the hemi car's done, it'll be easier

Troy

[69_500]

Ah yes, so let down being in Texas. Hmmm, but then again there are plenty of cool Mopars down in that area of the country. Try living up north where you can only search out other MOpar fans like 5 months out of the year. The other months the cars are holed up in garages or barns.

[Ghoste]

...and hardly come out the good months either.

[hemigeno]

Troy, this is a tough crowd to get sympathy from when it comes to living down south... 

I've got my R/T out today, does that count for anything?

[/hijack]

[Ghoste]

I suppose on the plus side, we don't have alligators, rattlers, or scorpions and we get fewer tornadoes (where I live).  But blizzards and ice storms are no fun either.

[nascarxx29]

I agree with 69 500 about dash vins from lost cars .This car wingcars in NJ turned me onto while back. He also knew of a few more he can find in his part of NJ not as bad as this one. He rescued as this one he let go cheap.As its fate might have been scrapped at the salvage yard where Dave found it .And its numbers reused on another charger shell someday

[dayclona]

I agree with 69 500 about dash vins from lost cars .This car wingcars in NJ turned me onto while back. He also knew of a few more he can find in his part of NJ not as bad as this one. He rescued as this one he let go cheap.As its fate might have been scrapped at the salvage yard where Dave found it .And its numbers reused on another charger shell someday

  Hey Dave!, uh.........I mean nascarxx29, did you ever restore that blue 500, that you "pulled" out of that yard in "1987"??

[69_500]

Can we keep one thread where there isn't any arguments? Please, just one aero threard without it?

[nascarxx29]

The R4 red hemi 4 speed .But original equppped j9B2243** automatic 69 charger 500 with the black vinyl top.Formerly owned by P Haldiman of CA .And 69 500s dad.Is a Mike V a friend of my friends car in my area.Hes suppose to give it to this son .When he becomes of driving age

[69_500]

Which just happens to be 3 digits off of the 500 I currently own too.


I was trying to get as close to my dad's 500 as possible.


One of these days I'll buy one of his old cars back, one of these days.

[Highbanked Hauler]

 69 500, if you had a choice which one of his cars would it be?

[Ghoste]

Not a bad question for the rest either.  Not for his dad's cars of course, but those of you who have a 500, is there a different one that you lust after?
If I could have my pick of the litter it would be the red that RM will auctioning off.  That article in Hot Rod with that car is what made me want a 500 in the first place (should've bought in when they were affordable ).

[69_500]

Of the 500's that my dad used to own its a toss up. Yeah the HEMI 500 with the vinyl roof would be an excellent car to have. However I lean more towards the Q5 Charger 500 he had. Due to the fact that it isn't numbers matching, and you could just drive it and enjoy it, plus the Q5 color definately stands out. However now the HEMI 500 that he had, has the correct engine last I knew, but the wrong transmission. That car was a factory AT on the column, and had since been converted to a 4 speed console car before the mid 70's. So that car was another one you could just go out and drive and enjoy, however when my dad had it, it was still a gorgeous car. Probably the cleanest car he ever had.

If I had to pick just one car of his to purchase back, I don't know which one it would be. But I do know where both of the 500's are today, and I also know where one of the Daytona's is. The one I know the whereabouts to is R4 with red interior, AT on the column, rear defroster, white tail stripe car. However I have always wanted a 4 speed car, so of my dads cars that narrows it down to the 3 of the other Daytona's, or the 1 440-6 Superbird he had, or one of the non aero cars.

So if I had to pick, it would be the B5 blue, blue interior, 4 speed, 440 Daytona. I have no clue where that car is today. would love to find it. Second in line would be the HEMI 500 just because its a HEMI and its now a 4 speed too. Third of his cars would be the Q5 500. The one I have the most realistic chance of getting is probably the Q5 car. I still talk to the owner of that car quite often. Have thought of trading him my 500 now, which is numbers matchign with a build sheet for the Q5 car.



If I had any other C500's or Daytona's to choose from and money wasn't an object of course I'd say a HEMI 4 speed car. But realistically, I'm gunning for a HEMI 500 that is an AT currently, project car, and always on the look out for a 4 speed Daytona project.

[hemigeno]

I came across this snippet from MoparCollector'sGuide while reading up on the '70 Daytona controversy.  It shows what is described as a dealer-installed vinyl top, and it looks VERY similar to the fastback vinyl top pictures on this thread.  Seems to confirm the theory that Creative didn't do the tops, they were probably aftermarket or dealer add-on items.

[nascarxx29]

I can see where the vinyl roof material at that time being accessible.But was the source of the rear mouldings.Was it borrowed and used from another chrysler product and adapted . For this use on the 69 500. Or was there a limited suppy of this top trim material made for exclusively the 69 500 only.In either case is there any known part numbers on that trim.

[69_500]

I believe that Pocket has the trim from his car, hopefully he will let us know if there is a part numer on it or not. I know my dad never took the vinyl trim off of either of his cars that had it, so couldn't tell ya if there was a part number on those or not.

[Highbanked Hauler]

  I think you will find that the moldings are a soft aluminum and came in a roll and were cut to fit.I was working in a dealership in the late 60s and I have seen the local auto trim shop come in and do 5-10 new and used cars at a time.They could do a car in 20 minutes.

[69_500]

I have heard that before about cars with vinyl tops too Al. That is what was done to the Q5 Charger 500 my dad had. Had talked to the origional owner and he is the one who requested they put a vinyl top on the car for him to buy it. So they had one put on. So that one I know wasn't done at Creative.

[Highbanked Hauler]

You would be surprised at what got done at the dealership with new cars.I have put in radios,changed radios changed tires(off another car in the lot).Installing body side moldings(factory) was a big thing.Optional outside mirrors,aftermarket AC,a few,You would be surprised at the prostitution that went on at some dealers.

[69_500]

I've seen dealerships here that still do somethings like that. Where if someone wants a car but with different rims, they will just swap them off of another car on the lot to get the sale, without having to wait. Had a dealership offer to cut in a sunroof on a truck for me instead of ordering me one with it already from the factory.

[PocketThunder]

I believe that Pocket has the trim from his car, hopefully he will let us know if there is a part numer on it or not. I know my dad never took the vinyl trim off of either of his cars that had it, so couldn't tell ya if there was a part number on those or not.

Sure do, i'll check when i get home tonight...  I'm 99% sure its just a roll of trim that was form fit to the car though.  I'll even take pictures of it..  If i'm not too hammered from my spouses holiday party that we have tonight..