More Toyota Recalls: Corolla Electric Steering Problems now...

[Troy]

The Fusion is pretty decent - my step sister has one and she hasn't managed to kill it yet (which is somewhat of a miracle). I'm not sure if I'm ready for a hybrid as I'm not willing to pay the higher costs (and maintenance) for what I see as a minimal improvement. For example, at $2.59 per gallon (current price in Ohio for 87 octane) and 30k miles per year it'd take me 7.12 years to cover the additional purchase price of the hybrid over the base model 4 cylinder (which would probably suck to drive but I could get a moonroof). I'd rather pay more for gas than to finance the higher costs and pay interest. The V6 has tons of options, gets much worse mileage, and costs almost as much as the hybrid so that comparison would favor the hybrid. I drive a lot on the highway so a hybrid isn't the best choice. If I worked downtown and lived in the suburbs I'd put more weight into the decision.

The local dealer has a blue/white GT500 and will give me Private Party Blue Book for my Ram and Tahoe. Somehow I don't think that is a '"responsible" idea but it sure would be fun!

Troy

[Brock Samson]

 Correction:
  I checked and the part in question in the pedals are made in America...
go for the 500 Troy I read bordom is dangerous... 
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5gizasS9zNON0KLGroJrN6kFdDg0g

[The70RT]

Correction:
  I checked and the part in question in the pedals are made in America...
go for the 500 Troy I read bordom is dangerous... 
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5gizasS9zNON0KLGroJrN6kFdDg0g

Yep sabotage then 

[resq302]

The peddle assembly. is made in Canada - I don't know about the other parts, what amazes me is how they tried to blame the floor mats, one lady had a minor low speed accident where the car sped up and her mats were in the trunk.
but at some point we have to differentiate exactly which problem we're discussing because there seem to be at least five or six separate issues. The trucks seem to have a tie rod failure issue as well.

The problem is the floor mats are not to blame and neither is the pedal assembly.  It is a signal that the computer is getting that tells the computer to give it more or full throttle.  Something as simple as receiving or making a cell phone call could trigger the sudden onset as all electronic devices MUST accept interference such as our portable two way radios for our fire and police departments.  Granted, wireless devices are more prone to accepting these types of interference but hard wired electronics can still accept the same things depending on the circumstance.

[89MOPAR]

They're built all over the world but that is beside the point.  Toyota has been one of the most ruthless about demanding their suppliers do it cheaper and cheaper all the time.  All of the automakers are guilty of that and sooner or later that strategy comes home to roost.  If it's designed or made by men it is subject to failure and for years now I've had to endure people telling me that Toyotas were the greatest cars on the planet and superior to everything else with wheels.  Turns out bad things can come from Japan too.  I am not happy about any injuries or deaths that have resulted from this but I can't say I feel the slightest sympathy for Toyota the corporation.

Hear Hear !    I second that motion.

Aurthur- many of the newer vehicles have no throttle cable to get stuck.  You push the pedal, it determines the depth of pedal movement, based on that, an electronic signal is sent to the throttle on the engine, and a little motor/valve attached to the inlet manifold opens the air inlet and pumps in more gas.  If a faulty electronic signal is forcing the 'butterflies' open, than what ?? [ beyond shutting off the car,shift to neutral]

[Arthu®]

They're built all over the world but that is beside the point.  Toyota has been one of the most ruthless about demanding their suppliers do it cheaper and cheaper all the time.  All of the automakers are guilty of that and sooner or later that strategy comes home to roost.  If it's designed or made by men it is subject to failure and for years now I've had to endure people telling me that Toyotas were the greatest cars on the planet and superior to everything else with wheels.  Turns out bad things can come from Japan too.  I am not happy about any injuries or deaths that have resulted from this but I can't say I feel the slightest sympathy for Toyota the corporation.

Hear Hear !    I second that motion.

Aurthur- many of the newer vehicles have no throttle cable to get stuck.  You push the pedal, it determines the depth of pedal movement, based on that, an electronic signal is sent to the throttle on the engine, and a little motor/valve attached to the inlet manifold opens the air inlet and pumps in more gas.  If a faulty electronic signal is forcing the 'butterflies' open, than what ?? [ beyond shutting off the car,shift to neutral]

I know that, I know that fix on these old cars is easier, but between going a 120mph out of control putting yourself and others in danger and shifting to neutral and possibly overreving the car (won't blow up, they will be controlled as soon as it hits the red. Shutting of the car is not the best option as it kills the power brakes and power steering possibly even engages the steering lock. I would just put it in neutral stop and shut it off. Anyways not doing anything is basically the worst thing to do in that situation and I think we can all agree on that.

Arthur

[Mike DC]

  
I'm amazed that this throttle issue was allowed to get so bad before Toyota even seems to have addressed it INTERNALLY.  Toyota has known about this for years.  I suspect they've known it wasn't just a floormat issue for years too.



As soon as they knew they had a problem with this, Toyota could have just put a bit of code into the cars to address it.  Just write the code so that if the gas & brake are being pushed at once, the brake pedal wins and the throttle backs itself off.  

Of course this would not have been a final solution or anything, but it would have bought Toyota some time to solve it.  It would have prevented 90+ percent of the continued injury/accident claims that continued to accumulate on more brand new cars.  

 

[Silver R/T]

People also fail to recognise most of the parts are made in Japan by well...Japanese. They are assembled here by low paid Americans.

x2, what I wanted to say.

[aussiemuscle]

remember these cars are built by your neighbours and family members.  This company is as much of an asset to the North American economy as any of the big 3. 

perception is a funny thing. GM and Ford make cars in australia, have done since the 1920's. GM (holden) is often portrayed as Australian, while Ford isn't. Toyota is about as japanese as GM or Ford. they are all global companies.

[Ghoste]

So in a global company, the money ultimately goes where?

[Mike DC]

Yeah, the domestic brands are still keeping more money inside the USA than buying foreign brands. 

I own a foreign car but I know it's not as patriotic as buying Detroit stuff.     



 



 

[Ghoste]

I was thinking less about patriotism than globalism.  Corporations are the first to point out whatever regional interest needs to be highlighted in order to porvide good press.  For example building a new plant in a small town in rural Kentucky could be considered American, Kentuckian, a county thing or even right down to the closest village depending on what they want, but ultimately the money goes somewhere.  Picking on Toyota (because I like to) means that at the very top, you eventually come to a board of directors who are not likely from (insert small foreign locality of choice) and I doubt they think of themselves personally as "global citizens". 
No real point here, just saying.

[Troy]

So in a global company, the money ultimately goes where?

Mostly to the employees (the biggest "expense" on most company's books) and shareholders. 

Oh! And taxes.

Troy

[Ghoste]

You know I mean the profits.  I suppose its unclear but that is why I used the term ultimately.  It's a somewhat rhetorical question meant to illustrate that even though we talk about corporations as being "global", at the very top the principals typically come from a single nation of origina and that at that level I would be surprised if they thought of themselves as belonging to some sort of global culture.

[moparstuart]

You know I mean the profits.  I suppose its unclear but that is why I used the term ultimately.  It's a somewhat rhetorical question meant to illustrate that even though we talk about corporations as being "global", at the very top the principals typically come from a single nation of origina and that at that level I would be surprised if they thought of themselves as belonging to some sort of global culture.

how would you like to be in the euro system and be german and french tax payers bailing out greece 

[Brock Samson]

 We've been bailing out entire countries for years, propping them up - forgiving their debt you name it...
But, what kills me, is among the many many articles i've read about the toyota problems are the toyota apologists who swear by toys as the "Best" cars ever built and they allways, allways include how crappy american cars are and the domestics horrible record for safety and quality and generally rag on anything American.
Obviouisly these folks never knew shi... sorry,.. anything about automobiles, their history or development and are sheep.
  A few short years ago Ford was in the dog house because of the high center of gravity and the faulty Firestones they were equiped with,.. Today Ford is actually doing quite well.

[Troy]

You know I mean the profits.  I suppose its unclear but that is why I used the term ultimately.  It's a somewhat rhetorical question meant to illustrate that even though we talk about corporations as being "global", at the very top the principals typically come from a single nation of origina and that at that level I would be surprised if they thought of themselves as belonging to some sort of global culture.

Yeah, I know. But again, "profits" also go to shareholders and that's only after you pay all your employees and vendors. In good times a company might make 10% profit which means that other 90% of income is getting paid out. I will gladly let you keep 10% of your income in Canada if I can have the other 90%. The same guys getting the profits also take on the losses but everyone else still gets paid (until something goes horribly wrong and everyone is out of a job).

Don't forget that every country involved also gets to tax the corporation - and every employee and vendor. You know what the taxes are on corporations, big paychecks, and Capital Gains? How do you suppose all these government run programs are paid for?

I work for a global corporation based here in the US. I'm sure people in countries where we do business complain about their money leaving as well.

Troy

[Ghoste]

I would imagine that they do.  My point being though, that even though Toyota (or whomever) have a large workforce investment in the US (or wherever) at the highest level the people who head the company (not the shareholders but the people who sit around the mahogany desk and roll the dice) speak the common language and observe the common customs and think of themselves as citizens of wherever that head office might be. 
I can't imagine a Japanese board meeting involving conversation about how they might improve the lives of their American workforce.  I doubt many American boards have conversations about how they can improve American lilves either but IMO there is this somehow implied ideal that by building a factory in the US it therefore follows that Toyota (yes, picking on them in a personal bias again) must obviously be a largely American company that cares deeply for the USA.
All speculation on my part obviously because I have never sat on a Toyota board meeting.  In fact my entire knowledge of Japanese culture is based on what people from North America who have lived there have told me so my speculation isn't even based in anything I could ever derive from something like fact.

[Arthu®]

Don't forget that every country involved also gets to tax the corporation - and every employee and vendor. You know what the taxes are on corporations, big paychecks, and Capital Gains? How do you suppose all these government run programs are paid for?

It depends on where the subsidiaries and home office are located but the U.S. but in general with most countries (that one would like to do business with) the U.S. has a Double Taxation Avoidance Agreement. That is why it is very profitable for countries to work through the Netherlands, we have a very unhealthy (except for the Netherlands and for the companies) tax system where you pay very little corporate tax. There are also a ton more tricks to lower your taxable earnings, but I won't bore you all too much .

Arthur

[Troy]

Sorry, forgot about point when I combined sentences. The employees are taxed where they live no matter where the company is based (ie the VP of North American Operations likely lives in North America so taxes on his pay, bonuses, and capital gains all stay here). The land, buildings, equipment, and infrastructure are also taxed where they are.

Any way, back to Toyota...

Troy

[Silver R/T]

I was wondering if Mr. Toyoda (president of toyota) is driving one of them Toyota's. What would be interesting to see him drive it and have accelerator get stuck while he's driving on one of their Japanese hills (they have a lot of them in Japan)
I wonder how he would handle that situation.

[Arthu®]

Sorry, forgot about point when I combined sentences. The employees are taxed where they live no matter where the company is based (ie the VP of North American Operations likely lives in North America so taxes on his pay, bonuses, and capital gains all stay here). The land, buildings, equipment, and infrastructure are also taxed where they are.

Any way, back to Toyota...

Troy

Correct, but remember how many authorities offer businesses incentives when it comes to establishing a plant or office somewhere. Some don't have to pay the majority of their taxes for years, a small example...

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2009/04/greenville_area_gets_860000_ba.html

But indeed back to Toyota.

I was wondering if Mr. Toyoda (president of toyota) is driving one of them Toyota's. What would be interesting to see him drive it and have accelerator get stuck while he's driving on one of their Japanese hills (they have a lot of them in Japan)
I wonder how he would handle that situation.

No Akio Toyoda most likely drives a Mercedes Benz and his favorite cologne is from Bugatti. I would also like to thank you for your enlightened geographical comment on Japan, you know I have never been there and I did not know they have their Japanese hills, do you know how they differ from the Chinese hills? What are their characteristics? Also what would the effect be of having a stuck accelerator on a Japanese hill? Will it be more destructive than on a Japanese plain? Should he be going uphill or downhill? How do you recommend he handles the situation? I mean I wonder about all these things just from one single post made by you, you are by far the most inspiring and enlightening member of our board.

[Brock Samson]

 ouch! 

[Silver R/T]

Arthu® I recommend you visit Japan then and do some research, you live closer to Japan than most of us do.
p.s. Think you could make it there and back in Lada? Maybe drive Lada over there and trade it in for a Toyota. When and if you make it back to Netherlands maybe you can write a post how you made it back in one piece.

[Arthu®]

I just noticed your vast knowledge of Japanese geography and I wanted to pick your brain. P.S. you are about 800miles closer...