sanding and polishing clear coat

[roger01]

ive gone ahead and sanded and polishished a section of my cear coat , came out really good got all the orange peel out .but for some reason the paint still looks a klittle duller than i started .
    can someone please tell me what they use as a polisher and what speed it should be  and what products they use and in what order
   thanks
   

[B Bodyman]

Hi I'm a paint/body man,the key to wetsanding is you need to start with a coarse grit,like 6-800 for deep peel/ scratches,and follow up progressively with 1000 then 12 or 1500-2000,the finest paper you finish with will give you the shiniest finish after buffing,if you used too coarse of a paper you won't ever get the shine back,,when I have a large area,like a hood, that has been wetsanded out and has "spots" where it's been sanded,I use 3M Perfect-itIII,it's one of the best compounds out there,but I wet the paint surface firstjust wipe with a real wet terry cloth,,then squirt some compound on the surface,and use a medium wool compounding pad,basically with the water and a real low speed like 1500-2000rpm to start you are still wetsanding,but now blending,the water will keep the surface a little cooler,but also disburse the abrasive,and cause it to swirl in a uniform pattern,   and therefore blend the sanded area into the good area,color sanding is all about blending back into the good color,just be careful with fresh clearcoat on sharp edges,or you will smoke it,or burn thru,as your abrasive mix with water dries out,then stop add some more water,and keep going,you will see it start to shine,also the nice thing about perfect it compound,is it cleans right up when it dries,just wipe with a cloth or wash the car with soap and water. sometimes if it's really dull and not coming back well I'll switch to a foam pad and a higher speed like 3000rpm's. hope that helps a little.depending on how much time you want to spend,you can go to a finer swirl remover,but the perfect it will do the job,quick,then when you have uniform shine,you can add a wax,I use a carnuba,like mothers,with a polishing wool pad.

[roger01]

thank for the info . i wet sanded the area with 2000 grit paper right from the beginning and  the area came out good should i switch to a lower grit to start or if this is working for me just keep going .also i have seen that there are many perfect it compounds out there .which one do you use? and is that all that you use? or do you prgress to another compound ?
  another question is.. can i use a dewault electric disc sanding machine with the polishing attachments for this job ,it has speed control and would be alot easier to handle.....or is this a definate no no......thanks

[Drop Top]

What your seeing is sand scratches that haven't been buffed out yet. You need to start with a courser compound first then move to a finer compound to finish off with. I don't use the water trick until the last compounding and then only when it starts to get a bit dry. Then I use a squirt bottle and mist it on. The trouble with using it in the first steps is it actually waters it down and the compound doesn't work as well.

I do restorations for a living. I buff every car before its even put together. One piece at a time. The finer you finish wet sanding the car with the less work you will have buffing out the paint. But on the other hand. You need to start with a courser paper to get it really flat. The problem with this is, the more you sand the more clear is removed and the more clear that is removed, the less R.U.V. Ray protection you will have.

I don't recommend sanding with anything less then 1000 grit unless you plan on reclearing the car. If you have orange peel that looks like an avocado peel, then sand the car and re-clear. If your just getting the dirt nibs and a slight peel out then starting with 1000 to 1500 will be fine. Remember the courser you start out with the flatter in will look.

Remember I do show cars so you may not what to finish your car the way I do. My customers expect a certain degree of quality from me. So you may what to skip a few steps for your driver. But heres what I do.
!st)  I make sure there is plenty of clear to start with. I usually have an extra coat of clear on the car because I know I'm going to color sand and buff.
2nd) I start with 1000 then sand with 1500 then end with 2000.
3rd) A) I start with heavy duty compound from Evercoat with a Med. wool pad. B) Then go with their micro finishing compound with a differant med wool pad. C) Finish buffing with their Machine Glaze and a fine (Black) foam pad on an Air Buffer. The Air Buffer runs faster so you have to work faster. You don't what to burn the paint. D) Finish off with their Hand Glaze and a soft rag. (Used clean cotton diaper will work).

Here are some tips:
A) When sanding. Go in one direction each time you change paper grits. This way you can see that you have gotten all the sand scratches out from the other sanding.
B) Use a florescent lamp for light while sanding and buffing. This will also help you see the scratches.
C) While buffing keep the rotation of the pad going away from any edge. You may want to tape off any edges.
D) Each step of buffing. Make sure you get all marks out of the paint from the previous step. This will make the next step easier. Each step will be easier as you move along.
E) When your done. A few days latter you may see it start to get dull in some places. Thats OK, You can fix this. Look closely its color sand scratches coming back. Just rebuff those areas.

[Drop Top]

I used to use and swear by 3Ms "Perfect It" compounds. But they have had to change dew to the type and amounts of chemicals that is used in them. (Doesn't fit in Calif. guide lines). Evercoat gave me a bottle of their new line to try. I have sense switched to them. 3Ms new line just doesn't cut it like their older stuff did. Evercoat doesn't work as well as the older 3M stuff. But works better then their new stuff.

As to your question about using a grinder. Since its a variable speed grinder it will do. But it works a different speeds then a buffer dose. So a buffer is better. But a good variable speed buffer will cost you at least $150. So you may not want to spend that kind of money on one for just one car.

More tips.
F) Use Megwires sand paper. It cuts faster and leaves finer scratches.
G)Use warm water with a little bit of dish soap in it.
H)Let the paper soak for at least 10 mins. before using it. This makes the paper softer and less chances of cutting the paint with the edge of the paper.

I need to quit telling you guys all my little secrets.

[mopar_madman]

I used to use and swear by 3Ms "Perfect It" compounds. But they have had to change dew to the type and amounts of chemicals that is used in them. (Doesn't fit in Calif. guide lines). Evercoat gave me a bottle of their new line to try. I have sense switched to them. 3Ms new line just doesn't cut it like their older stuff did. Evercoat doesn't work as well as the older 3M stuff. But works better then their new stuff.

As to your question about using a grinder. Since its a variable speed grinder it will do. But it works a different speeds then a buffer dose. So a buffer is better. But a good variable speed buffer will cost you at least $150. So you may not want to spend that kind of money on one for just one car.

More tips.
F) Use Megwires sand paper. It cuts faster and leaves finer scratches.
G)Use warm water with a little bit of dish soap in it.
H)Let the paper soak for at least 10 mins. before using it. This makes the paper softer and less chances of cutting the paint with the edge of the paper.

I need to quit telling you guys all my little secrets.

Hey droptop, have you ever tried the sure finish compound, from what I've heard you just use one compound and you just switch pads (cutting and polishing pad) two steps and your done. I hear everyone that has tried this stuff has switched and said its hands down the best they have ever tried. Just wondering if ever heard of it.

[Drop Top]

madman;
No I haven't even heard of it. Wouldn't mind trying it. Need more information on where to find it.
Thanks!

[mopar_madman]

go to autobodystore.com they sell it and I heard of it on their message board. (nice message board also) most of the guys there were using 3m or presta and I guess they have all switched.

take care, john

[roger01]

dont worry your secrets are safe with us ...lol about the polisher ...i have a dewault palm disc sander with the polishing attachments and variable speed ....would this be alright 
   i agree i dont want to use a coarse paper so if the 2000 is working to take out the fine orange peel is this ok .

[Drop Top]

The sander would be OK for tight areas. But you would have more control with the grinder.

[hotrod98]

We use the 3M Trizact system. We use a special 3M velcro pad on a da sander. We start with 1500 (sometimes 1200) then go to 3000 grit. I do both steps wet but some of my guys use water only with the 3000 grit step. The paint is almost flawless at this point. We then use the 3M perfectit III system for buffing. It requires very little buffing at this point. Use the 3M double sided buffing pad.
Next step is machine glaze which actually will cut 3000 grit sanding scratches. We use a 3M black waffle pad for this step. Fianlly, we use a final glaze. Our work is flawless and painless. If you're interested, I can get the part numbers. Just e-mail me.

[Drop Top]

I have used the Trizact System. For production shops its a great time saver and dose a good job. The problem with this system is, its desighned for a production shop. The system itself is expensive to buy if all your doing is one car. Whitch is most of the people on this board. If you have alot of dirt nibs in the paint it can cause alot more danmage to the paint then help. Many of the people on this board paint in their cars in garages or an old barn. Most do not have access to a booth. So there is more dirt in the paint then what the Trizact set up is designed for. I also have used the Prefect-it III compounds. Try the new Evercoat compounds you will be suprised at how much better and faster they work. Even with the Trizact system.

[Silver R/T]

drop top, how many clear coats you usually shoot?

[roger01]

how do you guys fold and hold your sandpaper mine wants to keep slipping out of itself ..im using a foam pad for the cutting step what should i be using for polishing?....thanks for the info im glad i found you guys again ...a round of applause for troy .........

[Drop Top]

Silver R/T;
Depends on the job. But never less then 3 med to heavy coats. If I'm covering up art work I put on 4 coats and then block the clear with 400 wet and clear it all over again. The trick to putting on a nice smooth finish is to put on as heavy of a coat as possable each pass without putting a run in it, right off the bat. Allot of painters will put on a sort of light to med coat on the first pass. I don't do it that way. But if you put on a med. to heavy coat on the first coat you must wait a little bit longer. For a novice, I wouldn't suggest to paint the way I do. You have a greater chance of putting a run in your paint this way. Remember I've been painting cars longer then most of you have been alive. (34 years  )

roger01;
Glad to see you made it! Fold it 3 ways, don't on it so hard and use plenty of soapy (not too much soap) water. I use a wool pad for cutting. A black foam pad for finishing. The cutting or coarse foam pad (usually yellow) that is supposed to be used for cutting has a tendency to burn the paint a bit faster. So you need to use more compound with it. The wool pad dose a better job with less compound. If your using a finish foam pad to cut with. Its going to take forever to get rid of the sand scratches.