Engine/Trans. VIN Stampings

[66FBCharger]

Is the complete VIN stamped on the engine and trans. in 1969? I have seen complete VINs on '68s. Was '68 the first year of stamping VINs on engine and trans.? Did all the assembly plants stamp the engine and transmissions the same, meaning did one plant stamp the whole VIN and another plant stamp just the last 8?

[RCKSTR]

The engine and trans have the last 6 digits I belive of your vin

[hemigeno]

There was a changeover in 1969 on VIN stamping procedures.  At the beginning of the model year, they did stamp the full VIN.  Sometime around January 1969 they went to a truncated VIN, stamping only the model year, assembly plant and the last six digits of the VIN.  

Exactly when that changeover actually happened depended on which assembly plant you're talking about.  I have a transmission from a St. Louis-built '69 HemiCharger (XS29J9G) that has an assembly date in the third or fourth week of January, and it still has the full VIN.  You'd assume that the car itself was probably assembled at St. Louis a couple of weeks later - probably in the first week or so of February.  That must have been right around the time St. Louis changed over, but I think Hamtramck and other plants were doing the shorter stamping a little sooner.

BTW, if you've seen complete VINs on '68s, I'd like to see any photos of such.  Haven't seen that myself, but by no means have I seen every car.

[66FBCharger]

There was a changeover in 1969 on VIN stamping procedures.  At the beginning of the model year, they did stamp the full VIN.  Sometime around January 1969 they went to a truncated VIN, stamping only the model year, assembly plant and the last six digits of the VIN. 

Exactly when that changeover actually happened depended on which assembly plant you're talking about.  I have a transmission from a St. Louis-built '69 HemiCharger (XS29J9G) that has an assembly date in the third or fourth week of January, and it still has the full VIN.  You'd assume that the car itself was probably assembled at St. Louis a couple of weeks later - probably in the first week or so of February.  That must have been right around the time St. Louis changed over, but I think Hamtramck and other plants were doing the shorter stamping a little sooner.

BTW, if you've seen complete VINs on '68s, I'd like to see any photos of such.  Haven't seen that myself, but by no means have I seen every car.

I would have to dig to see if I would have a picture of a 68 VIN. Is my memory bad? Did they stamp the full VIN in '68?
I am completing a deal on a 69 built at St. Louis with a SPD of A18 ( am sure of the month not so sure of the day, I don't have the paperwork handy). It is missing the engine and trans. I thought it might be easier to find the engine and trans. since they have the complete VIN stamped on them. People could look at the vin quickly and know what model the engine came out of.

[hemigeno]

Check these threads out for some answers/examples of '68 VIN/VON stampings:

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,38316.0/all.html

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,60676.0/all.html

[YGBSM]

I have a 1968 Charger built at Hamtramck with it's original engine; both engine and tranny have partial VIN stamped- year, plant, and six digit sequential number.  SPD 423

I also have a 1968 440 block from a GTX or Coronet R/T built at Lynch Road; again the engine only has a partial VIN stamped.

[bull]

From what I've been able to ascertain, only the 383 HP and R/T 68s got numbers stamped on top of the bellhousing flanges. The 225s, 318s and 383 2bbls got none.

[triple_green]

68s partial VIN like the picture above for HP motors only.

[tan top]

never knew that !! only HP motors were stamped   wonder why 

[69CoronetRT]

never knew that !! only HP motors were stamped  wonder why  

This is the only place I have ever heard anyone make that claim.

I've been proven wrong lots of times but considering VIN stamping was supposed to be required on all engines after a certain date, I would like to see some factory or logical reason for only stamping HP engines. I truly doubt the guys stamping the VIN really cared or took the time to see if it was an HP engine or not.

If anyone has a '68 383 Charger with the VIN stamped on the block and tranny, it negates that theory.

[triple_green]

My 68 is the 383 HP, not the 383 2bbl, etc. and it has the partial VIN stamping on eng and trans. It is also has a May 68 build date.

I don't know about the non-HP engines, or do you not consider the 330HP 383 an HP engine?

3X

[tan top]

like i say never knew this before  , perhaps its just te really early 68 ccars that were built 67  

[triple_green]

so here is what Galen's "little book" volume one says on page 57:

NOTE: In 1968 the last 8 digits of the VIN is stamped at the LH Top Rear of the engine, and parallel on the LH top of the front of the Automatic Transmission.
During the 1969 model year, some of the Engines and Transmissions were stamped with the complete 13-digit Vehicle Identification Number. All other years were stamped with only the las 8 digits of the VIN!

[tan top]

so here is what Galen's "little book" volume one says on page 57:

NOTE: In 1968 the last 8 digits of the VIN is stamped at the LH Top Rear of the engine, and parallel on the LH top of the front of the Automatic Transmission.
During the 1969 model year, some of the Engines and Transmissions were stamped with the complete 13-digit Vehicle Identification Number. All other years were stamped with only the las 8 digits of the VIN!

oh right  , thanks for sharing Galen's   black & white info     intresting 

[69CoronetRT]

My 68 is the 383 HP, not the 383 2bbl, etc. and it has the partial VIN stamping on eng and trans. It is also has a May 68 build date.

I don't know about the non-HP engines, or do you not consider the 330HP 383 an HP engine?

3X

The 330 horse is not considered the HP engine for 68; the 335 horse is.

[bull]

Actually, that's not right either as it relates to 68 Chargers. The 383 Chargers were either hp (H-code 330 horse 4bbl) or non-hp (G-code 290 horse 2bbl) based on what carb they had. To quote you and others from another thread on the topic:

In 68 H= 330 horse 383....in 69 H=335 horse 383

In '68 "H" = 335hp in most Road Runners & Super Bees, 330hp in the rest of the B & C-bodies. ** all have a Carter AVS carb ** turquoise engine

In '69 "H" = 335hp in most Road Runners, Super Bees & some other B-bodies (mostly with 4-speeds). ** all have a Carter AVS carb ** orange engine
------------------------------------------------------ 330hp in the rest of the B & C-bodies.  ** all have a Holley carb ** turquoise engine

In '70 "N" = 335hp in RM, WM, XP, XH, BS, JS & some other B & E-bodies (mostly with 4-speeds). ** all have a Holley carb ** orange engine
------------------------------------------------------ 330hp in the rest of the B & C & E-bodies. ** all have a Carter AVS carb ** Chrysler blue engine

Air cleaners are a totally different & endless arguement  

To muddy the waters even more...H code 68 and 69 RRs and Bees with A/C have the 330 horse turquoise engine. 1968 A body H code cars have a 300 horse engine; 69 A bodys have a 383-HP engine rated at 330 horse. The H VIN code only tells you the car has a 383-4bbl. It does NOT tell you the horsepower rating. The only way to document which engine your car recieved is via the broadcast sheet or a 69+ Lynch Road fender tag.

[69CoronetRT]

Actually, that's not right either as it relates to 68 Chargers. The 383 Chargers were either hp (H-code 330 horse 4bbl) or non-hp (G-code 290 horse 2bbl) based on what carb they had. To quote you and others from another thread on the topic:

The initials HP can mean High Performance or Horsepower depending on context. The High Performance moniker was used for the 335 horsepower engines from 68-70. Prior to 68 and in 71 and later the High Performance designation was used to distinguish the 4bbl cars from the 2bbls cars. From 68-70 the HP, high performance engine, was the 335 horsepower engine and the lower rated A body variant. It's confusing until you look at it in detail.

One of the items that compounds the problem is the amount of literature that automatically calls H VIN code cars High Performance. Not all H code VIN cars are created equal. An H code in the VIN only means the car recieved a 383-4bbl. It does not tell you which variant of the motor, or the horsepower rating, the car actually recieved. There is the H coded 335 horse, the H code 330 horse and the H code 300 horse. All of the engines in the attachment are 383-4bbl engines. All would have recieved the H code in the VIN. All three are rated at different horspower depending on application. For '68, the only way to prove which engine the car recieved is via the build sheet as the VIN will show the H code and the fender tag will show 62.

From what I've seen, 1968 Chargers did not recieve the HP variant, that is an engine rated at 335 horsepower, of the 383-4bbl. That assembly was reserved for the Road Runner and Super Bee without A/C. (I admit that the possible exception exists but in my mind it would have to be a STL built car. As a general rule, there would be no reason to ship a 335 horse assembly to Hamtramck.)

The 68 Charger 383-4bbl is not considered the High Performance 383-4bbl in 68. Therefore, to say the VINs were only stamped on HP engines when there are examples of VINs stamped on non HP engines doesn't hold up.

[bull]

Regardless, the 383 4bbls typically got the stampings and the 383 2bbls typically did not. I'm not really arguing whether or not the 4bbls were called "high performance" or not, just demonstrating where the line was drawn by Chrysler regarding what got stamped.

[69CoronetRT]

Regardless, the 383 4bbls typically got the stampings and the 383 2bbls typically did not. I'm not really arguing whether or not the 4bbls were called "high performance" or not, just demonstrating where the line was drawn by Chrysler regarding what got stamped.

Bull, again I go back to the logic test:

Considering VIN stamping were supposed to be required on all engines after a certain date, I would like to see some factory or logical reason for only stamping 4bbl engines. I truly doubt the guys stamping the VIN really cared or took the time to see if it was 4bbl or not. You'd have a VIN stamper standing around waiting for certain cars to come down the line instead of stamping each car.

The stampings do seem to vary by plant and time of year. It's possible the engines you've seen fall outside of certain paramaters. STL seems to have started stamping VINs early in the year. Other plants may not have. Is it possible you've seen early built 2bbls from one plant and are comparing them to later built 4bbls or are you comparing engines from the same time period from the same plant? The best research would come from a high volume plant like Lynch Road or Hamtramck that built several body styles and engine combinations to see if there was a consistency in the stampings.

I would love to see this research and see the results either way. Maybe it's true only 4bbls got stamped. I just don't see the logic in it.

[maxwellwedge]

So I guess the non-HP '68 bodies weren't stamped either - both procedures were something that was mandated not by Chrysler but by the law. 

[69CoronetRT]

So I guess the non-HP '68 bodies weren't stamped either - both procedures were something that was mandated not by Chrysler but by the law. 

I'm not sure I understand your post as 68's don't have the VIN stamped on the body....

[maxwellwedge]

I know - I was just making a point.....The VIN stamping was law and it would be a little silly to assume that the plant workers would only target HP motors and transmissions to stamp. I have never owned a non-HP car from 68 so I can only rely on common sense. What little I have left anyway. 

[69CoronetRT]

I know - I was just making a point.....The VIN stamping was law and it would be a little silly to assume that the plant workers would only target HP motors and transmissions to stamp. I have never owned a non-HP car from 68 so I can only rely on common sense. What little I have left anyway. 

I thought so...

That's my point too. Stamping VINs on only HP or 4bbl cars doesn't make sense to me.

[triple_green]

Hi Guys,

My 68 is an H code and it has the 62 on the fendertag. It also has an unsilenced aircleaner.

What do I look for on the build sheet? and what does the 62 on the fender tag mean. When Wayne Wooten decoded my fender tag he just says 383 4 bbl for the 62 code.

My car is a May build and appears to have a lot of (pre-implementation 69) or late model year 68 features.

3X

[bull]

All I can tell you is what I've seen here and in person at car shows and on my own 68 2bbl. Logic or not and law or not it is what it is. Not saying all of the 4bbl cars got stamped and some of the 2bbls didn't but based on my experience and that of many others here that's the way it happened. Especially early on in 68.

[69CoronetRT]

Hi Guys,

My 68 is an H code and it has the 62 on the fendertag. It also has an unsilenced aircleaner.

What do I look for on the build sheet? and what does the 62 on the fender tag mean. When Wayne Wooten decoded my fender tag he just says 383 4 bbl for the 62 code.

My car is a May build and appears to have a lot of (pre-implementation 69) or late model year 68 features.

3X

The H in the VIN and 62 on the tag only tell you it is a 383-4bbl.

Look on the broadcast sheet; second line from the bottom, 4th code from the left under ENGINE. That will tell you the three digit assembly number.

[69CoronetRT]

All I can tell you is what I've seen here and in person at car shows and on my own 68 2bbl. Logic or not and law or not it is what it is. Not saying all of the 4bbl cars got stamped and some of the 2bbls didn't but based on my experience and that of many others here that's the way it happened. Especially early on in 68.

Bull, you've seen what you've seen. I can't dispute that. However, are you comparing cars built at the same plant around the same time period for consistency or are you trying to compare an early built 2bbl from Hamtrack to a late built 4bbl from STL against a mid year car from Lynch Road or Belvedere? Each plant could have handled things differently.

[bull]

All I can tell you is what I've seen here and in person at car shows and on my own 68 2bbl. Logic or not and law or not it is what it is. Not saying all of the 4bbl cars got stamped and some of the 2bbls didn't but based on my experience and that of many others here that's the way it happened. Especially early on in 68.

Bull, you've seen what you've seen. I can't dispute that. However, are you comparing cars built at the same plant around the same time period for consistency or are you trying to compare an early built 2bbl from Hamtrack to a late built 4bbl from STL against a mid year car from Lynch Road or Belvedere? Each plant could have handled things differently.

I don't have a detailed database if that's what you're asking, no.   Until someone catalogs a crapload of 68s and asks specifically if they've got bellhousing stamps we'll probably never know. You probably know as well as I do that there was anything but uniformity happening in 1968. And I don't think there were a bunch of Feds cruising the plants handing out fines for non-compliance.

[triple_green]

"Look on the broadcast sheet; second line from the bottom, 4th code from the left under ENGINE. That will tell you the three digit assembly number."

engine 708

Thanks!
3X

[69CoronetRT]

I don't have a detailed database if that's what you're asking, no.   Until someone catalogs a crapload of 68s and asks specifically if they've got bellhousing stamps we'll probably never know.

Bull, that's exactly my point. Until that type of empirical data, or factory documentation, exists, it's not possible to state with any decgree of certainty that a specific category of engines (HPs, 4bbls, or whatever) did recieve VIN stamps and certain engines did not recieve stamps as a matter of policy at Chrysler plants.

We all have our specific interests. Mine is compiling 69 STL info as well as a couple of other things. In the end I hope they help everyone interested in the information. I'm sure it would be of great help to the hobby for someone to compile engine stamping data. It would be informative to know how early some plants started stamping engines via the VIN numbers and associated SPDs and how each plant treated the process. It would be hard to do but very worthwhile for the person that does it. You seem to have a head start on the project. I'd encourage you to lead the project. People will help if you ask.

[bull]

There is a 68 registry but it's kind of wimpy at the moment. http://www.fendertagshop.com/index There has been talk of some members here taking it on in a new forum but I'd be a bad choice for any web building or anything like that.

[69CoronetRT]

There is a 68 registry but it's kind of wimpy at the moment. http://www.fendertagshop.com/index There has been talk of some members here taking it on in a new forum but I'd be a bad choice for any web building or anything like that.

The site belongs to a guy by the name of Dan P. and recently launched. I know Dan and he's a good guy and an asset to the hobby. I think he will devote the time necessary to make it a good site.

You wouldn't have to do anything formal like a website - just start compiling the data on your own. Get known on various boards you are looking for info and what it will be used for. If you become known as 'the guy' looking for data, people will seek you out and give it to you. My interests are 69 STL cars and 69 LR tag data. People send me stuff all the time. Just learn to network, compile data, analyze it and share what you've learned.

For Bull or anyone reading: this topic is necessary and ripe for futher study. Go for it.

[bull]

I swapped emails with him when I sent my info in and he seems genuine. I'm not putting him or his website down; I know people are busy and they can only do what they can do. What he's put together is a lot more than what we've had prior so I'm definitely not complaining.

[hemigeno]

I think what Doug is trying to say is that it doesn't take a formal registry to keep track of or research a particular issue.  While it's certainly possible to do so within the context of a registry, it may not take anything more than putting a request out on the various internet forums asking the owners of 1968 model year cars or drivetrains to forward pictures or otherwise contribute how (or if?) their engines and transmissions were stamped.  It may take a bit for the respective forums' members to understand that your interests are genuine, but once that happens it may be surprising how much information can be generated.

For this particular issue you don't need full fender tag information, just the stamping information.  Having the VIN, SO and SPD of the car the engine/trans came from would be a bonus, but perhaps not necessary.  Dan's development of a '68 Charger Registry is one slice of a rather large 1968 model year pie, so if you expanded the view to include other 1968 models it would actually increase the likelihood that a reliable conclusion could be drawn.

[66FBCharger]

Is a '69 engine/trans stamped on the top rear portion of the block like a '68 or on a machined pad on the right side down by the oil pan like a '70?

[hemigeno]

'69s are stamped:

down by the oil pan like a '70?

'68s are the only year I know of that received the bellhousing/flange stamp.

[66FBCharger]

Not to beat this to death but, I am trying to learn as much as I can about this subject. Any model prior to the '68 model year is unstamped. Yes?
So with that being said, a '67 or older car would just need the correct assembly date on the motor to be considered "matching numbers". Would that be an accurate statement?

[bull]

All I can tell you is what I've seen here and in person at car shows and on my own 68 2bbl. Logic or not and law or not it is what it is. Not saying all of the 4bbl cars got stamped and some of the 2bbls didn't but based on my experience and that of many others here that's the way it happened. Especially early on in 68.

Bull, you've seen what you've seen. I can't dispute that. However, are you comparing cars built at the same plant around the same time period for consistency or are you trying to compare an early built 2bbl from Hamtrack to a late built 4bbl from STL against a mid year car from Lynch Road or Belvedere? Each plant could have handled things differently.

One thing I might point out here that could shed some light on my opinion. Weren't most 68 Chargers built in Hamtramck? I thought we were just talking about 68 Chargers, not 68 Mopars? If we're on the same page in that 68 Chargers is the main issue here I could see why many cars did not get stamped with production increasing 500% over the previous year. That much of a production increase could also account for a lot of the hodge-podge quirkiness in the parts that were installed too. When you're pumping out 5 times the cars you once did I can see how there would be some corners being cut early in the production year until things leveled off.

[69CoronetRT]

One thing I might point out here that could shed some light on my opinion. Weren't most 68 Chargers built in Hamtramck? I thought we were jst talking about 68 Chargers, not 68 Mopars? If we're on the same page in that 68 Chargers is the main issue here I could see why many cars did not get stamped with production incresing 500% over the previous year. That much of a production increase could also account for a lot of the hodge-podge quirkiness in the parts that were installed too. When you're pumping out 5 times the cars you once did I can see how there would be some corners being cut early in the production year until things leveled off.

Yes, Chargers were built only at Hamtramck until March of 68 when STL started building them too. That's why I'm asking if you were trying to compare two different plants and two different time frames.

In your upcoming research (    ) one thing you may want to do is look at how Hamtramck built Darts and Barracudas were stamped. That opens up an additional pool of cars to help you gather more and better data on how that particular plant handled the stamping.

I'm sure all plants wanted to cut corners but I doubt dropping a federal madate (stamping engines and trannys)would be the best way.

[bull]

Right. However, we all know that some of them did not get stamped so we can therefore conclude the federal "mandate" was probably not as serious a threat as it may seem. Or, perhaps the consequences of disobeying the mandate did not outweigh the benefits of knocking them out as quickly as possible and getting them into the hands of the customers. Either way, I can tell you with 100% certainty that not all 68 Chargers got stamped so obviously somebody somewhere was not that concerned about following the mandate all the time.