cranks with spark and fuel but wont start - I must be missing something

[maxwellwedge]

There is a bad batch of points and condensors out there. Me and many others have had the problem with condensors. Also - Blue Streak (which used to be good) is junk now. I had 2 sets of bad points in a row from them. The were grounding out on themselves. I put the old pitted points back in and the car fired right up.

[Tilar]

Think maybe we need to change out the capacitor even though it is new?

Just because it's new doesn't mean its good. It's not uncommon to get a bad condenser.

[oldrock]

ok so I can try a new condenser and see if that is it but would I be better off spending $65 and getting that electronic distributer I saw on ebay and linked earlier? At some point this starts to feel like I could just keep buying and rebuying stuff which is starting to really add up to some serious money. For $65, I could eliminate the ballast resistor, capacitor and points.

[SeattleCharger]

not to mention all the time and labor you are putting into this,   I think an electronic ignition would be a good investment either way, and would cut out some variables in diagnosing this problem and future ones, no more points to deal with, if you ad the time it will take to do the next tune up, and the next one, and the next one, even if nothing goes wrong again, I think its worth it    

[RCKSTR]

ok so is this what I would need to go electronic ignition?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MOPAR-DODGE-CHRYSLER-318-340-360-HEI-DISTRIBUTOR-6713-R_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem518f0c4f90QQitemZ350292299664QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

I bought a similar one for my 383, two wire hook up, highly recommend. I used to spend hours every weekend adjusting the dual points on my old 72 datsun 240z, not to mention tuning those damn side draft carbs. Trust me, the more you make it reliable, the more time you will spend enjoying the car rather than working on it.

[charger_cody]

Sorry if I interupt something but couldn't this be because of the control module?

Cody

[RCKSTR]

Does a points ignition have a control module?

[Tilar]

Point systems don't have a control module.

[elacruze]

ok so I can try a new condenser and see if that is it but would I be better off spending $65 and getting that electronic distributer I saw on ebay and linked earlier? At some point this starts to feel like I could just keep buying and rebuying stuff which is starting to really add up to some serious money. For $65, I could eliminate the ballast resistor, capacitor and points.

Here's my $.02-

There is no good mechanical reason to keep the points. Electronic ignition does everything better and is more reliable.
However, since this is your son's first car, shouldn't he learn something about old cars? Isn't that sorta the point here?
If he or you wanted a car that never needed work you could have bought a 5-year-old Cavalier or something.

Points aren't magic, and they are very reliable with proper knowledge and experience. The decision to change to electronic is not made by the car but by the owner's desire to discover the properties of old technology. Personally I would rather be forever stuck with a stock dual-point distributor than trade the knowledge and experience I've gained from them for electronic.

Eric

[oldrock]

Eric, that is kinda the way I have felt about it too. I wanted my son to get the opportunity to learn about old cars and he has learned a ton with it. However, he also wants the car to be dependable enough to get him to school and hopefully a part time job soon. I am thinking we are going to just order one of those electronic ignitions off ebay and use that. They seem priced very reasonable and it would take a lot of the headaches out of the equation.

I am looking at a couple of different options and wondering if one model is better than any other. Does the group have a preference of the electronic options on ebay?
I see this one for under $60 with free shipping. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MOPAR-DODGE-CHRYSLER-318-340-360-HEI-DISTRIBUTOR_W0QQitemZ330377007845QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item4cec0112e5

or this one for about $65 after shipping http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MOPAR-DODGE-CHRYSLER-318-340-360-HEI-DISTRIBUTOR-6713-R_W0QQitemZ350292299664QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item518f0c4f90

or is there a better one to order? Since we just bought a really nice accel super coil, that should work nicely with either of them.

[SeattleCharger]

The cheaper blue one seems to not have some part that is on the side of the red one, I don't know.

   

[elacruze]

Can't lose with Ma Mopar genuine parts-

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mopar-273-318-340-360-Electronic-Ignition-Conversion-SB_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5ad6abb65dQQitemZ390148634205QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_3000wt_1090

When reliability and availability are top concerns, OEM is hard to beat. Saving $20 or $50 isn't necessarily a bargain in the long term.
I currently have the equivalent kit in my 440, it's been faultless since 1982.

I have the same philosophy with the whole car when it comes to reliability, I used all OEM brake parts except the rotors for my disc brake conversion, because I know that if I have some failure in BFE on a road trip, I can find parts at NAPA or a local junkyard.

I don't know where you are exactly, but if time allows you could consider finding a stock 318 electronic setup from a later engine in a local junkyard. As inexpensive as the basic conversion kit is, I don't think I'd go used unless the experience is worth the aggravation.

[Corellian Corvette]

+ 1 on going with the MOPAR stuff. A little more invested now means you're getting real OEM parts you know will fit, they're proven, and I completley agree with elacruze if anything goes wrong you can get replacement parts at NAPA. Def. the way to go.

[Corellian Corvette]

The cheaper blue one seems to not have some part that is on the side of the red one, I don't know.

   

Well the blue one has a gear at the end of the shaft, which is totally wrong...

[Tilar]

I would spend 2 bucks on a condenser and be sure we're dealing with an ignition problem instead of a wiring problem... Then if all works out ok do whatever change you're wanting to do.  Just my    Those distributor asemblies are definitely cheaper than a Pertronix module... I wonder what they use?

[66chargertoy]

I have purchased this unit http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MOPAR-DODGE-CHRYSLER-318-340-360-HEI-DISTRIBUTOR-6713-R_W0QQitemZ350292299664QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item518f0c4f90 and it works alright, but you have to take into consideration that you will have to get a new set of plug wires now (male distributor cap!!!) and if you need to get a new cap and rotor down the road, that will be the only supplier you can get those parts from. If I had the chance to do it over again, "GENUINE MA MOPAR" for ease of replacement parts. Just my

Denis

[RCKSTR]

The blue one is just a sample photo. I have the one that is identical to the red one. Love it. Yes, it does have a male distributer cap, I bought mine like that on purpose because I have MSD 9mm wires. The distributer uses MSD style cap and rotor, so you can buy replacement parts just about anywhere. I do like the idea of using OEM parts, but then he would have to wire up a new brain box. He could just buy this distributer, his old cap and rotor might even fit it (havent tried on mine) and away he goes. His son can still get TONS of "old car experience" checking the timing (cant to that on todays cars much anymore) plug gap, tuning the carb, and tensioning V belts without having to mess with points. IMHO points are a severely dated technology that doesnt have any advantages. Yes, they were original, but so was your oil filter, your not still using that, are you?

[b5blue]

no rebuilt dist. they are crap! 

[Tilar]

IMHO points are a severely dated technology that doesnt have any advantages. Yes, they were original, but so was your oil filter, your not still using that, are you?

That's not really a good comparison. Not much has changed in respect to oil filtration in 40+years. I still use the same technology as the original oil filter, and I'd almost bet you do too.    I really do agree with you that point systems are outdated and more than likely my 68 will have electronic ignition, but on the same note you can take a point system and get it running to the point of getting you home or to a parts store. I've done it a few times over the years. But when an electronic system goes down, It's dead. If my car was numbers matching it would probably have a points distributor in it.

[RCKSTR]

touche  

[oldrock]

thanks for all the help guys. I think I talked to the wife about it this weekend and we decided we were going to go ahead and upgrade the car for our son. We have been trying to teach him the value of money and have him do alot of the cash himself but we also want him to be able to enjoy his high school years. So we are going to go ahead and buy him one of those electronic ignition setups on ebay. If his current cap and rotor work, great but if not, we will just get him some new wires. We are also going to go ahead and start shopping for a 4 barrel aluminum intake and 4 barrel carb to upgrade that too. Will end up spending a few hundred dollars on it but he is a good kid and hopefully with the upgrades, he will have a great 1st car that he remembers for the rest of his life and maybe one day he can rebuild one with his son (or daughter).

I guess I will probably order that red distributor I linked and then if needed, I can order some nice 8 or 9mm wires if his existing wires and rotor/cap won't fit on it. Hopefully the distributer will get him back on the road and then soon as we find a nice aluminum 4 barrel intake and carb he should have a pretty nice setup.

[FLG]

thanks for all the help guys. I think I talked to the wife about it this weekend and we decided we were going to go ahead and upgrade the car for our son. We have been trying to teach him the value of money and have him do alot of the cash himself but we also want him to be able to enjoy his high school years. So we are going to go ahead and buy him one of those electronic ignition setups on ebay. If his current cap and rotor work, great but if not, we will just get him some new wires. We are also going to go ahead and start shopping for a 4 barrel aluminum intake and 4 barrel carb to upgrade that too. Will end up spending a few hundred dollars on it but he is a good kid and hopefully with the upgrades, he will have a great 1st car that he remembers for the rest of his life and maybe one day he can rebuild one with his son (or daughter).

I guess I will probably order that red distributor I linked and then if needed, I can order some nice 8 or 9mm wires if his existing wires and rotor/cap won't fit on it. Hopefully the distributer will get him back on the road and then soon as we find a nice aluminum 4 barrel intake and carb he should have a pretty nice setup.

Sounds like a plan!

Talk to Ron (Firefighter) about firecore wires.

[firefighter3931]

I guess I will probably order that red distributor I linked and then if needed, I can order some nice 8 or 9mm wires if his existing wires and rotor/cap won't fit on it. Hopefully the distributer will get him back on the road and then soon as we find a nice aluminum 4 barrel intake and carb he should have a pretty nice setup.

Sounds like a plan!

Talk to Ron (Firefighter) about firecore wires.
[/quote]


If you need a set of male (HEI) terminal plug wires lemme know and we can get you a set of Firecores. I just sent a set to Paul G for his smallblock and he's seen a dramatic difference in the car's performance. No surprise...these wires ROCK !!!! 


Ron

[oldrock]

the ebay guy that had the distributer also had 8.5mm plug wires for $38 a set so I just went ahead and got them at the same time. Ended up spending $107 for the distributor and wires shipped. Since we had just upgraded to a nice accel supercoil, that should work fine with it. IF that gets the charger up and running I figure it was money well spent considering how much time we have had to put into figuring out what was wrong. Now I am looking for a good used 4 barrel aluminum intake and carb setup to swap out. Found a guy locally who has an alum edelbrock performer aluminum intake and holley 650 dblpumper he is selling. Says the intake is in good shape with no stripped holes, etc. but the carb has been sitting so will need a rebuild. I thought it might be a good project for my son and I to do together so he can learn more about carbs. Since I have a holley 750 dblpumper on my mustang, I am familar with them and should not be too hard as long as the carb is not damaged. Oh and I had told the guy about it being my son's first car and all. He said to help my son out, he would sell us the carb and intake for $100. Seems like a great deal to me but what do you guys think?

[RCKSTR]

Id say jump on it, a rebuild kit is only $30