cranks with spark and fuel but wont start - I must be missing something

[Dodgecharger74]

another way to check timing chain is to remove all plugs remove dist cap turn engine over by hand til rotor starts to move then turn engine backwards the amount of crank rotation will tell you how sloppy the chain is

[oldrock]

rained over 2 inches yesterday and raining still today so not looking good for working on the charger today. Ready to try the remote gas tank deal and see if we get it to fire that way. If so, we will be draining the gas tank and flushing it so we can get fresh gas in there and hopefully get it back on the road. If not bad gas, will be checking timing next to see if it is still where we had set it. If both of those check out ok, I think we will go ahead and pull the intake and start some serious cleaning or maybe change it out for a 4 barrel intake and carb if we can find a good deal on a used one in working condition. 

[GunMetal]

 If the plugs are wet and it's a rebuilt carb, the float(s) may have absorbed fuel from a pin hole and are "sinking". I've had that happen on a Thermoquad . I'm sure rebuilts use the finest quality parts  .

[b5blue]

 

[RCKSTR]

Im thinking the spark isnt hot enough.  It will spark in the atmosphere, but under compression, it is being blown out. You want a good hot blue spark, orange cant compete with compression. The plugs are wet because they arent igniting the fuel mixture even slightly. I dont think its fuel related, you have already changed the plugs, and the coil is good you say? I highly doubt all 8 wires would fail at once, so it would at least run on a few cylinders if that was the problem. If its a points ignition, I would start there, if its electronic, I would change out the box. Hope you get it running 

[BigBlackDodge]

Anyone mention setting the dwell on the new points yet?




BBD

[69charger440]

You have not mentioned if you changed the point and condenser! If you have not changed them since your car quit working, I would do that!!!

[lisiecki1]

I leads to a small metal cylinder mounted to the coil bracket.

isn't that the condensor?  should be connected in a points-type setup, I believe.......

[SeattleCharger]

Dude. Are you sure your son didn't put Diesel in his gas tank by mistake? Or that some kids at school didn't dump diesel down there?

You said "smells like gas but slightly oily?" That's what Diesel is.
. . . . . . .
Keep us posted!

Heh, I hate to admit it, but I did that once when I was young to a 71 camaro, 350ci 4 barrel,   only put five bucks in, when take was near empty line,  but the thing is, it started and drove me down the road, with a lot of sputtering and smoke,      I filled it up more with reg gas and it kinda fixed it,  

[RCKSTR]

I leads to a small metal cylinder mounted to the coil bracket.

isn't that the condensor?  should be connected in a points-type setup, I believe.......

I agree. The condenser prevents high voltage from burning the points, If it is not hooked up, it will melt the points, changing the gap, wich will cause a weak spark. It should be hooked to the negative side of the coil.  However, shouldnt this vehicle have electronic ignition? I thought points were done away with by 71?

[FLG]

Believe is is electronic ignition.

[RCKSTR]

Thought so..If I were a betting man, I would place a large wager on the ignition box

[mindless1]

Or, the poor car is ticked about having to be parked next to Chevy's each night.  I know mine gets touchy...

[BigBlackDodge]

Believe is is electronic ignition.

Said he replaced the 'points'...........just wondering.


BBD

[Tilar]

Let's go back to the fact that you have orange spark and not blue spark.  I think you might have a grounding problem(ie not enough juice to fire the gas if that makes sense) 

Gotta agree with that one. Orange spark is weak. It has to be a blue spark. I'd change the condenser if you haven't already.

[Tilar]

I leads to a small metal cylinder mounted to the coil bracket.

isn't that the condensor?  should be connected in a points-type setup, I believe.......

Condenser will be inside the distributor. If it's on the outside and hooked to the + side of the coil it's probably a noise supressor to help with noise in the radio.

[oldrock]

noise suppressor is what I was thinking on the metal cylinder. THe car is points not electronic ignition and all the parts (points, rotor, cap, capacitor) were all changed less than a month ago. I just changed out the coil and ballast capacitor after the trouble started thinking that might be the problem but wasn't it. I did check and am getting spark at coil wire and getting spark on all plugs. I dont' really have a good way to measure how much spark is getting to the individual plugs so just based on color, it is a nice wide spark as it should be but orange instead of blue.

If weather cooperates tomorrow, we will try the remote tank test to see if it makes a difference. If not that, maybe swap out the accel supercoil on my mustang which I know is good and see what that does.

[elacruze]

Have you rechecked the point gap?

More than once I've been fooled by new points settling in and losing their gap. Loss of gap does two things, it increases dwell time which heats up the coil and condenser, and retards timing. Take a second and make sure the rub strip hasn't worn in on the cam enough to reduce your gap.

[BigBlackDodge]

Have you rechecked the point gap?

More than once I've been fooled by new points settling in and losing their gap. Loss of gap does two things, it increases dwell time which heats up the coil and condenser, and retards timing. Take a second and make sure the rub strip hasn't worn in on the cam enough to reduce your gap.

Yep.

I had a vega once (yeah, yeah.....i know!) that would do that..........alot!

Do you have a dwell meter oldrock?


BBD

[RCKSTR]

The orange spark is your answer. It should be blue/white. It means you have a weak ignition.  I'd suggest that it's probably the condenser, but double check your point gap is set to 17 thousands. You said you had another coil that tested in the same range? Thats not to say they arent both bad. If the points are clean, not pitted, the gap is set, the condensor is new, I would definately be changing the coil after that.

[Tilar]

THe car is points not electronic ignition and all the parts (points, rotor, cap, capacitor) were all changed less than a month ago.

That sends up red flags to me. If an electrical component lasts 30 days, chances are it will last a while. The first 30 days seem to be the stress test for electrical components. Not so much the cap and rotor, but since you just changed them, I'm betting either the points slipped or that new condenser took a shit and died. It used to happen a lot more than you'd think.

[Corellian Corvette]

Some may disagree here - but IMHO go spend the money on a pertronix setup. Some folks don't like them, but I've run them on all my cars, including my daily driver 66 Buick, with absolutely no problem for 8 years. This will eliminate any dwell issues, condensor issues, points burning, etc. Will also improve the strength of the spark. I think this is a worthwhile upgrade no matter what you do, esp. if the car belongs to your kids this will be one less maintenence issue for him to worry about. Plus, with the pertronix as a baseline you can upgrade your coil, go to a MSD, etc. and build up over time.  

[oldrock]

ok just a quick update: we went out this morning to try the remote gas tank thing. FIrst we drained gas off and checked it. Gas looked fine with no water layer and no contamination I could see. So then we hooked up the remote gas tank to the fuel pump and tried that but with no luck.

So next we decided we would just start working on that weak spark. Looked at the ignition and decided we would just pull that oem coil and upgrade to a better one. Since I have had great luck with my Accel super coil in my mustang, that is what we bought. Hooked up the new coil and tried it. The car did start up but wouldn't keep running. Car will run for a second and then dies off. Defintately doing better with the new coil but still not fixed. So I thought I would check the coil wire just to see the difference it made. The spark shoots out with much more authority than before but is still orange instead of blue.

So at this point, I cam encouraged that we are getting somewhere but still not fixed. Think maybe we need to change out the capacitor even though it is new? I will also measure the gap on the points again to make sure they haven't slipped.

[SeattleCharger]

just get an electronic ignition       why mess with points?

[oldrock]

ok so is this what I would need to go electronic ignition?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MOPAR-DODGE-CHRYSLER-318-340-360-HEI-DISTRIBUTOR-6713-R_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem518f0c4f90QQitemZ350292299664QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories