Gear Vendors comes through, BIG TIME

RECHRGD · January 19, 2010, 07:57:05 PM

For those of you that don't know, I've been having a vibration problem for over two years, ever since installing a GV unit in my '68. Without going into any details, let's just say that I tried everything in the book with the help of the GV techs and my brothers here at DC.com. Today, the president of GV (Rick) calls me to say that they are sending out a complete new unit. This is happening even though it has yet to be concluded that the GV unit is my problem. Great customer service, great company!

:2thumbs:Bob

The70RT · January 19, 2010, 08:02:40 PM

Great Bob

Sublime/Sixpack · January 19, 2010, 08:31:29 PM

Now lets hope this resolves your problem.

Just 6T9 CHGR · January 19, 2010, 08:38:14 PM

Definitely gonna watch this one!

TylerCharger69 · January 19, 2010, 08:51:47 PM

bull · January 19, 2010, 10:31:30 PM

Wow, that's stepping up. Did he find out we were talking about the issue here?

At any rate, I hope this solves your vibration issue.

1Bad70Charger · January 20, 2010, 01:06:41 AM

Quote from: bull on January 19, 2010, 10:31:30 PM
Wow, that's stepping up. Did he find out we were talking about the issue here? At any rate, I hope this solves your vibration issue.

FANTASTIC incredible service, that's what makes or breaks a company, best of luck!

Rolling_Thunder · January 20, 2010, 01:30:36 AM

what happens to the old one ? I know someone looking for one haha

68X426 · January 20, 2010, 01:32:25 AM

Great to hear that they back up the product. I have a GV. No problems, but would like to hear about your successful fix.

b5blue · January 20, 2010, 08:05:31 AM

Awesome news!

After all you have been through you deserve a break! Hurray for Gear Vendors! Keep us posted and Good Luck!

firefighter3931 · January 20, 2010, 09:21:33 AM

That's good news Bob !

You've done more than most would have to isolate the problem so it makes sense that they would want to keep you happy. Not every company would do that so they deserve some Kudo's

Lets hope for a positive resolution...and keep us posted.

Ron

tan top · January 20, 2010, 09:48:03 AM

thats great ! Bob

looking forward to see what happens

200MPH · January 20, 2010, 10:00:20 AM

Thats great FF and TT are right.thats is awesome !

TCB09RT · January 20, 2010, 10:43:18 AM

Good move on GV's part.
Best thing they can do for their brand image is to keepcurrent customers happy and keep them saying positive things about GV to potential customers.

Musicman · January 20, 2010, 10:54:58 AM

RECHRGD · January 26, 2010, 04:34:11 PM

OK, The new unit arrived yesterday PM.

Rick made sure that the coupler was a tight fit, and it is. I'll get to it probably this weekend and am keeping my fingers crossed. Bob

mauve66 · January 26, 2010, 08:50:30 PM

~~soooo, if it comes back we have to start looking at everything again.......~~ think positive dammit

RECHRGD · February 02, 2010, 12:19:02 PM

Well, I got it installed yesterday and I'm right back to square one.

Same vibration, same speed.

I have to walk away from this for a couple of days. I'll be in touch with GV after I do some more tests. They are still very supportive and want to get this thing solved. The only thing other than the GV unit that went back on the car yesterday was the driveshaft (#2). If the problem is not there, then there has to be something goofy going on with the car that is being magnified by having forty extra pounds hanging off the end of the tranny. Bob

firefighter3931 · February 02, 2010, 12:33:55 PM

Dang that's got to be frustrating !

Bob, i'm wondering how far your slip yoke engages into the tail housing ? Are you using 7290 u-joints & slip yoke ? How did you measure for driveshaft length ?

If there is too much yoke hanging out behind the tailshaft it can cause vibration issues. The proper way to size the driveshaft is to intall the yoke, push it all the way in until it bottoms out....then pull it back 1in. From there you measure center to center on the front & Back yokes for the driveshaft length.

If the driveshaft is too short the yoke will be out too far. Can you post a pic of the front yoke & driveshaft installed in the car with the suspension loaded ? Maybe undo the rear straps and try sliding the yoke forward to see how much it moves inwards....

Ron

RECHRGD · February 02, 2010, 01:33:04 PM

Quote from: firefighter3931 on February 02, 2010, 12:33:55 PM
Dang that's got to be frustrating !

Bob, i'm wondering how far your slip yoke engages into the tail housing ? Are you using 7290 u-joints & slip yoke ? How did you measure for driveshaft length ?

If there is too much yoke hanging out behind the tailshaft it can cause vibration issues. The proper way to size the driveshaft is to intall the yoke, push it all the way in until it bottoms out....then pull it back 1in. From there you measure center to center on the front & Back yokes for the driveshaft length.

If the driveshaft is too short the yoke will be out too far. Can you post a pic of the front yoke & driveshaft installed in the car with the suspension loaded ? Maybe undo the rear straps and try sliding the yoke forward to see how much it moves inwards....

Ron

Thanks Ron. The driveshaft length is dead-on what GV wants to see with only 5/8" of play at the tail. Yes the u-joints are the 7290 units. Bob

tan top · February 02, 2010, 01:47:42 PM

oh crikey after all that still the same

damn .. thats anoying as its not as if you can see what the fault is

at least you know what its not now after all this dismantling & re fitting

firefighter3931 · February 02, 2010, 04:52:41 PM

Quote from: RECHRGD on February 02, 2010, 01:33:04 PM
Quote from: firefighter3931 on February 02, 2010, 12:33:55 PM
Dang that's got to be frustrating !

Bob, i'm wondering how far your slip yoke engages into the tail housing ? Are you using 7290 u-joints & slip yoke ? How did you measure for driveshaft length ?

If there is too much yoke hanging out behind the tailshaft it can cause vibration issues. The proper way to size the driveshaft is to intall the yoke, push it all the way in until it bottoms out....then pull it back 1in. From there you measure center to center on the front & Back yokes for the driveshaft length.

If the driveshaft is too short the yoke will be out too far. Can you post a pic of the front yoke & driveshaft installed in the car with the suspension loaded ? Maybe undo the rear straps and try sliding the yoke forward to see how much it moves inwards....

Ron

Thanks Ron. The driveshaft length is dead-on what GV wants to see with only 5/8" of play at the tail. Yes the u-joints are the 7290 units. Bob

OK Sounds like the yoke engagement is fine.

How snug does the yoke feel in the tailshaft...any side to side or up & down movement. Is this a new yoke or a used factory piece ? With stock transmissions that have worn tailshaft bushings and/or slip yokes this can be a problem.

What does the level of the tailshaft look like with the driveshaft installed. Is it pointed up or down...or does it sit level ? Just wondering if there is some wierd driveshaft angle with the GV unit installed ?

I'm going to assume that the new driveshaft was balanced and checked for runout ?

Other than that i can't come up with anything...wish i could be of more help

Ron

elacruze · February 03, 2010, 03:36:17 AM

Yep gonna have to do some math before this is over.

Did the same shop balance all your driveshafts? I know that not all of them balance at high speed (7000rpm or so) so you may ask about that. If your shafts have all been made/balanced at the same shop, have them checked/balanced at a different shop (different machines).
Is your transmission mount rubber or urethane? Maybe try swapping out for the other compound to change resonance.

It would be very helpful to know the frequency of the vibration vs. engine RPM. I used to have a little device for discovering frequency which had a spool of wire like a tape measure, and the extended wire would vibrate with the frequency when you pulled out the right length. The point is to determine whether the vibration is in front of the GV or behind it, and seat-of-the-pants guessing may not be able to tell the relatively small difference.
To this end, you may also be able to select a different gear in front of the GV, and see if the vibration comes at the same road speed. That would discover whether it's RPM or road speed mechanisms.

Eric

RECHRGD · February 03, 2010, 10:17:50 AM

Thanks guys! I will definitely have the driveshaft checked by a different shop. I had the original and the latest one built by the same shop. He checked and rechecked with the yoke on and all was good. He has the best reputation in town, but who knows, something could be a bit off with his equipment. I reconfirmed yesterday that it is speed related, not rpm related. The vibration comes in at the same speed whether in overdrive or not. Bob

b5blue · February 03, 2010, 04:44:34 PM

I am "bummed out" for you!

Musicman · February 03, 2010, 06:41:33 PM

Quote from: RECHRGD on February 03, 2010, 10:17:50 AM
The vibration comes in at the same speed whether in overdrive or not. Bob

I don't know the history behind this thread, but my first question would be, when was the last time you checked your tires & rims.
65 to 75 is a very common area for minor vibrations to show up and then suddenly disappear... especially with tires that have a couple of seasons on them. Would this be close to the speed range where you are experiencing this problem? Any uneven wear on the tread? Were the tires and rims originally balanced for "high speed" or standard balance, and are they still in balance front & Rear?... Are all of your bearings, etc still tight? If it's happening at speed regardless of rpm, I wouldn't start looking at my drive shaft etc just yet... at least not until I had ruled out the usual list of demons first. But as I said, I don't know the history, so I am just stating the common as well as the obvious.

RECHRGD · February 03, 2010, 07:51:15 PM

Musicman, thanks for the comments. All those bases have been covered and more. I guess I should have not started a new thread and kept the comments in my old posts in the suspension and wheel area of the forum. I just got back from taking the driveshaft to a different driveline shop to have it checked on his equipment. He found a "slight" vibration up by the front yoke and fixed it by putting a small weight on about a 1/2 offset from the existing one. He didn't think it would enough to cause a vibration in the drivetrain, but I'm sure hoping that's it. That would have been the last thing on my mind after having TWO driveshafts built and balanced. I'll throw it on tomorrow and let you guys know. Bob

RECHRGD · February 04, 2010, 07:08:52 PM

Well, I put the driveshaft back on and it didn't change things much. It may be a little better, but not much. I played with the pinion angles AGAIN without much change. I did start taping on a washer at various spots on the driveshaft and seemed to have some positive results. The vibration seemed to calm down when I put the washer right over the top of the existing weight at the rear of the shaft. I know I've gone through this same exercise at the first driveline shop and found no improvement. I'm too tired to keep messing with it today, but tomorrow I will add another washer at the same spot and see what happens. To be continued... Bob

Sublime/Sixpack · February 04, 2010, 10:05:15 PM

One thing I've had to do even after two different Driveline Shops built and balanced new driveshafts for me was balance the shaft in the car myself. I got fed up pissing around with professions not being able to get things smooth, so I bought a large adjustable clamp big enough to go around the driveshaft and with the rearend up on jack stands did it myself. I've had to do this on three of my cars through the years. The screw section of the clamp is sometimes heavy enough to put the shaft in balance once you find the right spot.

RECHRGD · February 04, 2010, 10:45:58 PM

Quote from: Sublime/Sixpack on February 04, 2010, 10:05:15 PM
One thing I've had to do even after two different Driveline Shops built and balanced new driveshafts for me was balance the shaft in the car myself. I got fed up pissing around with professions not being able to get things smooth, so I bought a large adjustable clamp big enough to go around the driveshaft and with the rearend up on jack stands did it myself. I've had to do this on three of my cars through the years. The screw section of the clamp is sometimes heavy enough to put the shaft in balance once you find the right spot.

Yep, I'm leaning that way now. I did do the clamp thing, but maybe didn't play with it enough. Just seems not right to have a driveshaft perfectly balanced by different shops and then start having to change the balance on the car. Bob

elacruze · February 04, 2010, 11:04:44 PM

I think somewhere up the thread I mentioned that a friend of mine had a Moser forged pinion yoke (high-end brand-name part) which was so far out of balance that it made the driveline vibrate. I mean the yoke all by itself was something like 4.5 ounces heavier on one side. We balanced it on a lawn mower blade balancer, and the vibration went away. Of course since the pinion yoke was not part of the driveshaft assembly it wasn't included in the shaft balance.

Have you had your pinion yoke off to get balanced? Since it appears to be the pinion yoke end of the shaft that's affected, and it follows my personal experience, I'm strongly suggesting the pinion yoke is at fault.
Why it doesn't vibrate with the GV off, remains a mystery.

Eric

RECHRGD · February 04, 2010, 11:13:00 PM

Why it doesn't vibrate with the GV off, remains a mystery.

Eric
[/quote]

Yep! I'm thinking that with the added weight and shorter driveshaft the whole dynamics of the drivetrain is thrown for a loop. Bob

RECHRGD · February 05, 2010, 06:16:40 PM

Well, I've been playing with weights (washers) all day, taping them at different points on the driveshaft but haven't been able to find the sweet spot yet. I can make it better or worse, but just can't kill the vibration. Mike at GV wants me to use the hose clamps instead of taping on washers. I'll try that over the weekend. Bob

b5blue · February 05, 2010, 06:19:46 PM

Good Luck Bob!

RECHRGD · February 05, 2010, 06:30:42 PM

Quote from: b5blue on February 05, 2010, 06:19:46 PM
Good Luck Bob!

Thanks! I'll need some luck with this thing.

Sublime/Sixpack · February 05, 2010, 06:33:11 PM

Quote from: RECHRGD on February 05, 2010, 06:16:40 PM
Mike at GV wants me to use the hose clamps instead of taping on washers. I'll try that over the weekend. Bob

Hose clamps as in plural? I'd suggest one big one like you'd find in the plumbing Dept. And maybe use a shiny new penny instead of a washer under it for good luck.

RECHRGD · February 05, 2010, 06:39:14 PM

Hose clamps as in plural? I'd suggest one big one like you'd find in the plumbing Dept. And maybe use a shiny new penny instead of a washer under it for good luck.

[/quote]

Yes the big ones so you just have the one little worm gear thingy to act as your weight. I like the penny idea.

Sublime/Sixpack · February 05, 2010, 06:49:44 PM

I did mention the penny tongue in cheek but in all seriousness I do have one car that I did use a penny under the clamp screw as a weight. I used a ballpeen hammer to give it just the right amount of curve to fit the driveshaft then clamped it on. It's been there for years.

RECHRGD · February 05, 2010, 06:58:52 PM

Quote from: Sublime/Sixpack on February 05, 2010, 06:49:44 PM
I did mention the penny tongue in cheek but in all seriousness I do have one car that I did use a penny under the clamp screw as a weight. I used a ballpeen hammer to give it just the right amount of curve to fit the driveshaft then clamped it on. It's been there for years.

I'll probably need a silver dollar!

RECHRGD · February 08, 2010, 07:50:14 PM

FINALLY SUCCESS!!!!!!! I went through the whole pipe clamp thing again, but methodically and with more patience than in the past. In the end I had to find a spot at the front of the DS that seemed to show the most improvement. I then added a penny and it improved a little more. I went to the rear and went though the same scenario until IT HAPPENED, NO MORE VIBRATIONS. I called GV to eat crow but Mike was just happy that it's finally resolved. He was a little surprised that both the front and the rear had to be "adjusted". I still don't now why I had to unbalance a perfectly balance DS to make it work. Time for a scotch! Bob

tan top · February 08, 2010, 07:54:25 PM

you sorted it then , thats great to hear Bob

good bit of detective work

Just 6T9 CHGR · February 08, 2010, 08:07:47 PM

crikies! how much change did you wind up using?

So the next step is to weld weights onto the shaft in those locations?

The70RT · February 08, 2010, 08:45:55 PM

Good deal Bob

RECHRGD · February 08, 2010, 09:30:09 PM

Quote from: Just 6T9 CHGR on February 08, 2010, 08:07:47 PM
crikies! how much change did you wind up using?

So the next step is to weld weights onto the shaft in those locations?

I only used a penny up front. The weight of the clamp adjuster screw seemed to be enough in back. I may try a penny in back tomorrow just for the heck of it as there is still a tiny bit of vibes, but not enough that I think I would ever feel on the road. I just hope the driveline guy can figure out the exact weight to weld on. Bob

firefighter3931 · February 08, 2010, 11:43:02 PM

Quote from: RECHRGD on February 08, 2010, 07:50:14 PM
FINALLY SUCCESS!!!!!!! I went through the whole pipe clamp thing again, but methodically and with more patience than in the past. In the end I had to find a spot at the front of the DS that seemed to show the most improvement. I then added a penny and it improved a little more. I went to the rear and went though the same scenario until IT HAPPENED, NO MORE VIBRATIONS. I called GV to eat crow but Mike was just happy that it's finally resolved. He was a little surprised that both the front and the rear had to be "adjusted". I still don't now why I had to unbalance a perfectly balance DS to make it work. Time for a scotch! Bob

Right Fricken On !!!!

So, it was the driveshaft afterall huh

Glad you found it Bob

Ron

Sublime/Sixpack · February 08, 2010, 11:45:24 PM

elacruze · February 09, 2010, 12:30:33 AM

Dynamic balance is weird science for sure.

Very happy to hear it resolved, and oh BTW what are you doing with those other GV length driveshafts?

I need one myself and may need two, one for the D60 and one for the 8-3/4.

Eric

8WHEELER · February 09, 2010, 02:47:50 AM

Way to hang in there Bob, you had so many other suggestions from
people trying to help, I just laid back reading your threads, and hoping you would find the problem
without another person ''me'' in the mix.

You will be more than happy driving that beautiful rig this year, with no vibration

Dan

RECHRGD · February 09, 2010, 11:55:19 AM

Quote from: elacruze on February 09, 2010, 12:30:33 AM
Dynamic balance is weird science for sure.

Very happy to hear it resolved, and oh BTW what are you doing with those other GV length driveshafts?
I need one myself and may need two, one for the D60 and one for the 8-3/4.

Eric

Eric, sorry, but I can't help you there. When the driveline guy built the other driveshaft he kept the old one. He was not charging me because he thought it was his fault. Bob

elacruze · February 09, 2010, 12:12:36 PM

Quote from: RECHRGD on February 09, 2010, 11:55:19 AM

Eric, sorry, but I can't help you there. When the driveline guy built the other driveshaft he kept the old one. He was not charging me because he thought it was his fault. Bob

That's a stand-up guy. Where is his shop? I'll have to get one made somewhere, and to my knowledge there are no reputable shops very close to me.

RECHRGD · February 09, 2010, 12:20:03 PM

Quote from: elacruze on February 09, 2010, 12:12:36 PM
Quote from: RECHRGD on February 09, 2010, 11:55:19 AM

Eric, sorry, but I can't help you there. When the driveline guy built the other driveshaft he kept the old one. He was not charging me because he thought it was his fault. Bob

That's a stand-up guy. Where is his shop? I'll have to get one made somewhere, and to my knowledge there are no reputable shops very close to me.

Murl's Driveline in beautiful Spokane Wa.

elacruze · February 10, 2010, 02:45:25 AM

Figures.

Couldn't be farther away unless it was in Alaska.

Still...if it's custom and he's eating it...might save the freight on it.

Was that for a 8-3/4 or D60?

RECHRGD · February 10, 2010, 10:47:14 AM

8 3/4

200MPH · February 10, 2010, 02:41:01 PM

Glad to hear problem solved

News:

Gear Vendors comes through, BIG TIME