Quest for better fuel milage.

[Big Sugar]

My wife and I recently reviewed our Fuel expenses , we always buy our fuel always from the same dealer simply to take advantage of Points accumulated thru repetitive purchases, as well as using the credit same card  for Points accumulation as well as holding a CAA membership which also provides some savings.

Generally we get about a $600-$1000 return value per year on our points savings.

Thinking this was a positive way to save a little $$ on fuel costs, we never really sat down and considered the  vehicles we we driving.

Presently Nancy's 05 Mitsubishi Montero gets around 15 mpg average and my 97 2wd Chev Silverado gets about 14 mpg average.  Combined we are spending  about $1500 a month on fuel.......(?).......That's a Mortgage payment !! $18,000 per year....That $1000 points savings isn't really all that much.

My work mileage is about to double for about the next 16 months (New Jobsite) So the monthly Fuel bill has pushed me into looking for another Ride.
  I need a Truck or Van for my means of transport , nothing too big mostly light duty.

In the Extream I've found a number of Volkswagen Eurovan Transporters, 2.4 litre 5 cyl diesels all between 1996-97, generally high to higher milage , Fuel Mileage is in the 24-28 range, Motors are robust and if serviced well can last well into 1/2 a million miles.  (Zero performace but good fuel savings)

I've also considered a Dodge Sprinter (Mercedes) but it's still too expensive for a used model and even their smallest model is still to large.

Pickups, Fords Ranger , Mazda  with the 4 cyl, Could be OK but a little on the small side, Fuel economy is good at 21-27 mpg. Tempting but....I'm really hesitant due to it's box size.

The Big Three North American Diesels arn't really worth the expense when you consider what their Gas equal is doing for fuel economy, So Unless I need a strong tow or load vehicle it's really not a feesable option. And the basic 1500 Chevy 2wd Van has trouble getting up to the 20mpg mark.

Too bad the Chev Astro doesn't pull some better #'s because it's a good fit in size for my needs.

Lastly the minivan Cargo's......Track records for the big three are dismal as far as reliability, but the fuel milage is attractive@16-23 mpg for the Pontiac variant.


Any Ideas ?


Ron

Here's a really cool website for those interested in Fuel economy  http://www.fueleconomy.gov/

[Silver R/T]

So why not get a little 4 cyl for daily driver. I don't see myself driving truck everyday unless I was in construction/contractor business. No offense but I see all the people complain about high has price but they all drive full sized trucks, SUV's and other gas hogs. I get 23-24 with my daily driver in town and average about 30mpg on highway.

[bakerhillpins]

I would suggest the VW TDIs as I am presently looking at them cuz my Accord is being a PITA but I really want spend the money on a 68/69. Reading through your post I can't discern what your needs are. Seems like you want to save money but want to stick with a larger vehicle? Why?

My commute is 90mi a day round trip. I would love to loose that commute but a paycheck in this economy is king. I ride the bike in the warmer months to the tune of 50mpg but the rubber costs kill me. Make up is on insurance but not by much. The Accord is giving me 30mpg. A VW Golf/Jetta TDI gives you 31/42 and has seats for others.

http://jalopnik.com/5376284/2010-vw-golf-tdi-first-drive

More info on your needs could help us help you thin the herd.

[LeadfootBob]

A small diesel. Bought myself a '97 VW Caddy pickup, an easy 50-52mpg with the 5-speed and a respectful 55hp at the crank... Yeah, it's about as fun as a bag of hammers, but guess where all that fuel money I save goes? 

[Big Sugar]

I would suggest the VW TDIs as I am presently looking at them cuz my Accord is being a PITA but I really want spend the money on a 68/69. Reading through your post I can't discern what your needs are. Seems like you want to save money but want to stick with a larger vehicle? Why?

My commute is 90mi a day round trip. I would love to loose that commute but a paycheck in this economy is king. I ride the bike in the warmer months to the tune of 50mpg but the rubber costs kill me. Make up is on insurance but not by much. The Accord is giving me 30mpg. A VW Golf/Jetta TDI gives you 31/42 and has seats for others.

http://jalopnik.com/5376284/2010-vw-golf-tdi-first-drive

More info on your needs could help us help you thin the herd.

Thanks

I'm in the HVAC trade, Commercial sector. I'm a  Forman/Supervisor. I do at least, once a week pick up material for the job, as well as carry tools and supplies in the back of my truck. My present truck serves fairly well as far as the size goes, My rear seats are usually taken up with drawings and paperwork. the rear box has a cap and is normally occupied by a small jobbox and some misc harware.
So what I'm looking for is Size and fuel economy.
I pretty much have given up running a Car around for work purposes, I did at one point run a few Mazda Pickups as well as a couple of Isuzu Pickups. Limited Box , I'd go back in that direction but I'm looking for a little more cargo room.


Ron

[Cooter]

Whay does the wife need that pig of an SUV? To "Feel safe?"..This is the response I get when I ask that very question.. MY wife is rollin' a busted 2001 Toyota Corolla with over 200K miles on it..I'm rollin' a busted, worn out, weak as rain water, 400K mile Subaru that I squeese into every morning cause it gets 30 MPG...

I drove the truck ('83 Dodge, 318, 2 BBL, 727, 2.76 Gear) once to the shop (80 miles round trip) and it KILLLED me..Over $40.00 for 1 1/2 trips..The "Superu" gets about 4 days out of $40.00 in fuel...If you NEED a gas pig of a truck, then by all means, but why does someone traveling to work need a 14 MPG SUV?......No towing, no pulling out of ditches, No Sport, No Utility, just a gas hog, so they can feel "safe"...

[Big Sugar]

Whay does the wife need that pig of an SUV? To "Feel safe?"..This is the response I get when I ask that very question.. MY wife is rollin' a busted 2001 Toyota Corolla with over 200K miles on it..I'm rollin' a busted, worn out, weak as rain water, 400K mile Subaru that I squeese into every morning cause it gets 30 MPG...

I drove the truck ('83 Dodge, 318, 2 BBL, 727, 2.76 Gear) once to the shop (80 miles round trip) and it KILLLED me..Over $40.00 for 1 1/2 trips..The "Superu" gets about 4 days out of $40.00 in fuel...If you NEED a gas pig of a truck, then by all means, but why does someone traveling to work need a 14 MPG SUV?......No towing, no pulling out of ditches, No Sport, No Utility, just a gas hog, so they can feel "safe"...

Your absolutly right, But we did buy the SUV as a family vehicle as well as for Camping, (we tow a 20' trailer with it in the summer) Looking back, we hoped the Montero would be a bit better on fuel as opposed too a domestic V8.
Either way the Bulk of our Fuel consumption comes from my truck 3:1, so money spent now needs to go to my fuel cost reduction. Eventually we'll put the Montero into a third vehicle catagory  and have the wife in a cheaper ride for the daily commute.

I'm leaning towards the VW Transporter I guess, I just hope it's not going to end up being a money Trap.

Ron

[Arthu®]

Whay does the wife need that pig of an SUV? To "Feel safe?"..This is the response I get when I ask that very question.. MY wife is rollin' a busted 2001 Toyota Corolla with over 200K miles on it..I'm rollin' a busted, worn out, weak as rain water, 400K mile Subaru that I squeese into every morning cause it gets 30 MPG...

I drove the truck ('83 Dodge, 318, 2 BBL, 727, 2.76 Gear) once to the shop (80 miles round trip) and it KILLLED me..Over $40.00 for 1 1/2 trips..The "Superu" gets about 4 days out of $40.00 in fuel...If you NEED a gas pig of a truck, then by all means, but why does someone traveling to work need a 14 MPG SUV?......No towing, no pulling out of ditches, No Sport, No Utility, just a gas hog, so they can feel "safe"...

Your absolutly right, But we did buy the SUV as a family vehicle as well as for Camping, (we tow a 20' trailer with it in the summer) Looking back, we hoped the Montero would be a bit better on fuel as opposed too a domestic V8.
Either way the Bulk of our Fuel consumption comes from my truck 3:1, so money spent now needs to go to my fuel cost reduction. Eventually we'll put the Montero into a third vehicle catagory  and have the wife in a cheaper ride for the daily commute.

I'm leaning towards the VW Transporter I guess, I just hope it's not going to end up being a money Trap.

Ron

Having worked for a courier service that used both the Volkswagen LT and Transporters (both 1.9 and 2.4 diesels) and having spend 1000's of kilometers driving both I think that Volkswagen manufactures the best vans for the European market. When well maintained they are practically bullet proof. The LT's were used for almost door to door work in towns and after 3 years of stopping and going the only really annoying thing that stopped working was the central locking system (probably from opening and closing the doors a 200 times a day year in year out. The Transporters were used for the longer runs than even driving at top speed for hours at a time (let's be honest they are no race cars) we never had problems with them, didn't overheat or anything. From the 5 the company was using one had a failing turbo after 110.000 kilometers and that was very rare to happen, they were all leased and all were written off after 150.000km to be replaced with new ones. Personally I really like the Transporters they are an allround good van although the new ones are typically a bit too well equipped (I mean who needs traction control on one of those things...).

Arthur

[Big Sugar]

Hi Arthur:

Was the 2.5 TDI a drastic improvement over the 2.4 liter non turbo Diesel ?


Ron

[stripedelete]

I have a 1987 1 ton Toyota (no duels).  Gets about 24 mpg and WILL haul a ton if you can get it in the box.  You can still pick them up for $1500 - $2500 (west and southwest).

I have heard people brag about 90's Chevy half tons with 5spd 6 cyl.

I would however give serious consideration to a 4 cyl Dodge Caravan.  Tear the seats out and beef up the rear suspension.


Finnally, the auto maker that solves the problem you pose will crush the rest of the world. 

In other words,  screw small cars. Nobody wants them.  Make a Suburban that gets 35 - 40 mpg!  We went to the moon with computing power that you can get in a box of cereal today.  We can do this! 

end of rant..sorry

[Arthu®]

Hi Arthur:

Was the 2.5 TDI a drastic improvement over the 2.4 liter non turbo Diesel ?


Ron

It really depends on what you use it for. For city traffic than really the 2.4 was alright, but it sucked (the 1.9TDI was almost better) at highway use. If you were driving along and you wanted to overtake a truck higher on the torque band it would took ages. The newer 2.5 TDI's are very comfortable also at highway speeds (120km/h +) but there is a huge difference between the standard (I believe) 130hp version and the top of the line (I believe) 175hp version. The ones in the lease program were all the standard ones and got a replacement one once while the other was serviced which was the 175hp version that one was really nice. I wished we had those for the longer runs. But if you do not intent to run it at high speeds and just use it for commuting to and from work I think the standard 2.5TDI is a great engine (although I believe they no longer make them with it here in Europe, it has been 2 years since I worked there). The smaller 1.9TDI we had in an older version was a real dog and would go 140km/h on the speedo with the wind. I would take the regular version which is probably also a little better on fuel than the fast 2.5, but I can't really say because I never really looked at the fuel consumption the vans (and my driving style is not very good on the mpg anyways).

But which generation Transporter are you looking at. T3/4 or 5?

Arthur

[Big Sugar]

Thanks Arthur:

it's a 97 T4 Transporter Extended it has a non turbo 2.4 litre 5 cyl Diesel,(told it was an Audi design) with a 5spd trans.


Ron

Like one shown in link.
http://autocatch.com/used-cars/1997~volkswagen~eurovan~181790.htm

[Todd Wilson]

I would suggest the VW TDIs as I am presently looking at them cuz my Accord is being a PITA but I really want spend the money on a 68/69. Reading through your post I can't discern what your needs are. Seems like you want to save money but want to stick with a larger vehicle? Why?

My commute is 90mi a day round trip. I would love to loose that commute but a paycheck in this economy is king. I ride the bike in the warmer months to the tune of 50mpg but the rubber costs kill me. Make up is on insurance but not by much. The Accord is giving me 30mpg. A VW Golf/Jetta TDI gives you 31/42 and has seats for others.

http://jalopnik.com/5376284/2010-vw-golf-tdi-first-drive

More info on your needs could help us help you thin the herd.

What are you finding out about this VW diesels as far as how well the start in the cold?   Like sitting a day or 2 in cold weather. Will they start without being plugged in?






Todd

[chargergirl]

There's a new VW deisel out there that's supposed to get 80mpg on the highway...30 in town...that would be great for either of you if all you need is a car. My 99 Dodge Ram gets 22 highway and about 18 in town...yep big fan of deisel. Drove from Pensacola to Gainesville on less than a 1/2 tank doing 80 all the way. When I can do it I'm getting the VW! Keeping my truck as well.

[bakerhillpins]

What are you finding out about this VW diesels as far as how well the start in the cold?   Like sitting a day or 2 in cold weather. Will they start without being plugged in?






Todd

I am still poking around a bunch on all of this as I only started to think about this as an option a few weeks ago. It's all Net info so far so take it for what its worth but it seems they do just fine. I was thinking of dropping in on a dealer but the temps are back up into the 30s this week. The TDI club site seems to have a bunch of info.

http://www.tdiclub.com/TDIFAQ/TDiFAQ-2.html

Not sure how bad it could be though. Lots of guys around here run Diesel trucks all the time so its got to work.

[chargergirl]

If we took our trucks up north we would have to plug them in every night in the winter. On ours there is a Wait To Start light when it's warming...live in FL it took a bit last week since it dang near snowed!

[Cooter]

Whatever you buy, just stay away from a damn VW Jetta...$900.00 T-Belt cause the IDiots that sesigned that thing make you remove the entire front end to do a T-belt and Water pump....STUPID design...

[Arthu®]

It is a good point on the cold starts, I'm not sure how cold it gets where you are but when ever it was freezing you really had to use the time it gave you for the glow plugs to give off some sort of heat. But since it hardly ever froze they were also most likely never replaced so it could also be that they were just old. They can be a bitch to replace and if I know dealers working on lease cars a little bit than everything that's too difficult and they don't think is necessary they will just charge you for and not even do.

When you are looking at a T4 be sure that it hasn't been abused, over here these vans tend to have a hard life with a lot of kilometers or stop and go traffic all day long. Because they are usually driven a lot in heavy traffic here they usually have had more trips to the body shop than most of the 40 year old Chargers on here. Because they are owned by businesses they are usually repaired in the cheapest way possible. Again the T4's in Western Europe are considered to be old these days, the price (the one that you listed at least) is pretty high if you ask me and I have no idea how much more a T5 with a 2.5TDI is but if you are going to use it every day the difference in comfort (especially noise at highway speeds) will definitely be worth it.

Basically it comes down to this, these vans when properly maintained will go on forever, but because most of them were in the hands of businesses who put off maintenance (because of the cost perspective) and repairs were done in the cheapest way possible you have to look for signs that. So check the service books or if possible ask for a print out of the repairs done the last 1/2 years. Is the engine properly maintained, is the clutch almost gone, waterpump, etc because as you have probably seen these engines are quite covered by everything around it and it will always take some amount of labour to do anything. This raises the costs of servicing.

Arthur

[bakerhillpins]

Whatever you buy, just stay away from a damn VW Jetta...$900.00 T-Belt cause the IDiots that sesigned that thing make you remove the entire front end to do a T-belt and Water pump....STUPID design...

Is this the situation with ALL Jettas? or just the TDI or the gas ones? Or maybe specific years?

The 97 accord I have requires the front rotors to be pressed off and on and then turned to avoid shimmy. Its one of the major PITAs about the car. Apparently they changed this design in 98, the year after ours. The sand and dirt roads here are brutal on brake systems.

[Cooter]

Whatever you buy, just stay away from a damn VW Jetta...$900.00 T-Belt cause the IDiots that sesigned that thing make you remove the entire front end to do a T-belt and Water pump....STUPID design...

Is this the situation with ALL Jettas? or just the TDI or the gas ones? Or maybe specific years?

The 97 accord I have requires the front rotors to be pressed off and on and then turned to avoid shimmy. Its one of the major PITAs about the car. Apparently they changed this design in 98, the year after ours. The sand and dirt roads here are brutal on brake systems.

Audi and Vw cars with that V6 engine mounted like a rear wheel drive vehicle are the ones I'm talking bout..Basically, any of 'em from around 1997-up..