Looking for perfect hyd. street cam to wake up 69 Runner440, 3.91 gears, 727!

[1Bad70Charger]

As some of you know from my recent post about torque converter I am looking for that perfect street cam, that will really wake up the beast that lies within my 440 engine, on my car that will be driven on the street 99% of the time, and will be driven often about 2000 miles a year.  I need a hot rod idle so 110 to 112 Lsa would work fine and I have a high tolerance for slightly agressive street cams as long as they are streetable (and are not dying out).

My new toy is a 69 Roadrunner running essentially a stock 1970 440 engine, built to stock specs., but running a slightly hotter cam than stock (and its WAY to mild for me). My 440 egine is also running Hedman Headers, 800 Carb, and some type of high performance dual plane intake manifold (believe its a edelbrock several years old and nothing to special.).

Car has a stock torque flight 727 with 3.91 gears in a 8 3/4 rear end and runs pretty good as she sits, but looking to cam her up and wake the car up a little bit and want a battle tested street/strip modern grind 440 cam that will make great power throughout the entire rpm band, good torque done low also with my 3.91 gears, and want to stick with a hyd. cam for  a street car.

Thanks in advance for any specific recommendations from all  you 440 ci Cam Gurus out there!  

[68X426]

I'm no engineer, but I've had great success with Xtreme from Comp Cams.

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=23-711-9&Category_Code=WDGCAMhydRol

Specs and data:

http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/CamDetails.aspx?csid=722&sb=2

[1Bad70Charger]

I'm no engineer, but I've had great success with Xtreme from Comp Cams.

http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=23-711-9&Category_Code=WDGCAMhydRol

Specs and data:

http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/CamDetails.aspx?csid=722&sb=2

I like the specs on that cam as it seems almost perfect for my current set-up and goals and objectives for my 69 Roadrunner.    One thing I just read about it is why would the heads require some machining for this cam, b/c of new springs I would have to use?  

Also, what exactly else should I do with this cam swap?  New valve springs, push rods, double roller timing chain (for insurance), etc.

Thanks a bunch!  

Others 440 cam gurus please chime in and thanks in advance for your cam recommondations and opinions for my set-up described above!  

[1Bad70Charger]

OK, just got off the phone with comp, and did not realize to go with a hyd. roller cam I would have to change out my stock lifters for over $500  so think I am stuck going with a flat tappet grind, to keep costs down and to keept a cam swap as simple as possible.

Do you guys agree I would have to change my  lifters or is the comp. reps. full of sh it as sometimes they seem like they are shooting from the hip. 

Anyhow, he recommend then a Comp flat tappet grind with specs of 230/236, 110 lsa, .481 lift at 0.050 for my set-up and budget, Com part# 21-224-4.

What do  you guys think about that flat tappet grind and other options for me to maximize my set-up by camming up, but not breaking the bank?

[firefighter3931]

With stock heads you're limited to .510 valve lift unless you plan to clearance the valve guides. That being said, there's a good option if you want to step it up with a good converter. If you were going with the 10in Dynamic the cam I would use is the Comp XE284 hydraulic. This will drop right in with no valve guide modifications. I will recommend that you upgrade the valvesprings to Comp #911's which will also drop right onto your heads and use the stock retainers/locks. If you're looking for a combo with some attitude...this is it. 

I also noticed that you're using the "Performer" manifold which is a poor performing piece. I would recommend something better to make power above 5000 rpm. The manifold you have now is arguably poorer than the stock 4bbl cast iron piece. Good manifold for a truck/RV application that won't see more than 4500rpm. 

You will also want to upgrade the carb as well to a double pumper. 



Ron

[1Bad70Charger]

With stock heads you're limited to .510 valve lift unless you plan to clearance the valve guides. That being said, there's a good option if you want to step it up with a good converter. If you were going with the 10in Dynamic the cam I would use is the Comp XE284 hydraulic. This will drop right in with no valve guide modifications. I will recommend that you upgrade the valvesprings to Comp #911's which will also drop right onto your heads and use the stock retainers/locks. If you're looking for a combo with some attitude...this is it. 

I also noticed that you're using the "Performer" manifold which is a poor performing piece. I would recommend something better to make power above 5000 rpm. The manifold you have now is arguably poorer than the stock 4bbl cast iron piece. Good manifold for a truck/RV application that won't see more than 4500rpm. 

You will also want to upgrade the carb as well to a double pumper. 


Ron

Ron,

Now your talking my language that is EXACTLY what I am looking for a set-up with a REAL ATTITUDE. Do you know what the general specs are on that cam at 0.050 (estimate?) and you picked up on my manifold intake from my pics?

What is a good replacement manifold you would recommend if I go the route you suggest and what exact carb would you step up to (model and cfm).

Thanks a ton bro!   

[firefighter3931]

and you picked up on my manifold intake from my pics?

What is a good replacement manifold you would recommend if I go the route you suggest and what exact carb would you step up to (model and cfm).

Yep, i recognize that manifold. Have a look....i'm almost 100% sure it says "performer 440" on it. The individual port runners are small & restrictive....good for bottom end power but bad for top end pull.

Here's what i would use....and it will work fine when you decide to build a stroker. The stock throttle and kickdown linkage also works with the SD. 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-300-14/


The Comp XE284 hydraulic is 240/246 on a 110* LSA with .507/.510 valve lift

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-CL21-225-4/

Matching #911 valvesprings

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-911-16/

850 Proform carb

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRO-67201/?image=large

Chrysler throttle adapter for 4150 carb

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-20-7/


This should get you going....


Ron

[1Bad70Charger]

Ron,

EXTREMELY HELPFUL thank you kindly sir!  

That thumper cam certainly looks like it would work really well also if I ever do a 500 stroker?


Does the torqueflite 10 inch dynamic converter come in only one stall size? I  would assume not but not certain. If it comes in different stall speeds I would assume with that Thumper cam I would imagine I would want a 3200 stall converter at least a 3000 stall (so she is not a dog down low)?  

[firefighter3931]

That XE284 could be used in a larger displacement motor but it would be pretty tame.....it would behave similar to the cam that's currently in your 440. Large displacement motors devour cams....it's really difficult to overcam a 500in build. 

The 10in Dynamic should stall ~3300-3500 behind an engine like yours. I have a Dynamic 9.5in vert in mine and it stalls right at 4000-4100 with a 535hp/540ftlb 446. It drives like a stocker at part throttle....you don't know it's in there until the pedal gets matted. 



Ron

[1Bad70Charger]

THanks Ron, your 68 Charger is freaking awesome bro!    Bad to the BONE!!   

What does she turn in the 1/4 et and mph?

[greenpigs]

11.64 @ 116

[1Bad70Charger]

11.64 @ 116

That is really moving for a 4000+ racing weight!  


Ron,

I take it the Edelbrock Alum Performer RPM Heads would work fantasitic with the bump stick (Comp XE284)
and dynamic converter you recommended for me?

I would estimate going to the Edelbrock heads alone would be good for about an extra 30 to 40 hp vs. the stock heads when used in conjunction with the  Comp XE284?

[firefighter3931]

THanks Ron, your 68 Charger is freaking awesome bro!    Bad to the BONE!!   

What does she turn in the 1/4 et and mph?

Thanks 1Bad....i posted that pic to show you what a good converter will do to yur back tires. 

As posted above ; 11.60's @ 116 at 4100 race weight. Pump gas build ; 446 cubes. 

My new 572ci bullet just came off the dyno a few weeks ago....the Black Pig might be a tad quicker next year. 



Ron

[1Bad70Charger]

THanks Ron, your 68 Charger is freaking awesome bro!    Bad to the BONE!!    

What does she turn in the 1/4 et and mph?

Thanks 1Bad....i posted that pic to show you what a good converter will do to yur back tires.  

As posted above ; 11.60's @ 116 at 4100 race weight. Pump gas build ; 446 cubes.  

My new 572ci bullet just came off the dyno a few weeks ago....the Black Pig might be a tad quicker next year.  



Ron

   


Sh it, you probably have your 446 ci engine coming out of your Charger sold or have plans for it, otherwise I should just buy that from you if its available!  

[firefighter3931]

Ron,

I take it the Edelbrock Alum Performer RPM Heads would work fantasitic with the bump stick (Comp XE284)
and dynamic converter you recommended for me?

I would estimate going to the Edelbrock heads alone would be good for about an extra 30 to 40 hp vs. the stock heads when used in conjunction with the  Comp XE284?

Yep...the RPM's are top shelf. I have those on my 446 

The Eddy's are worth 40-50hp vs a stock head....more with porting.  If you were going with a set of RPM's i would spec a different cam. Something like the Comp XE285HL (High lift) Mopar cam which has .545 lift at the valve. This would acess the increased high lift flow of the Eddy heads. No guide to retainer issues to contend with either....those are fine to .600 valve lift.

Some headers don't fit well with the angled plug heads so that's allways a consideration. Mopar sells an aluminum version of the RPM head with straight plugs so any header or factory ex manifold will fit...another option.


Ron

[b5blue]

On that note is that the supplier to Mopar for the aluminum "replacement type" heads? 

[1Bad70Charger]

On that note is that the supplier to Mopar for the aluminum "replacement type" heads? 

What the price of the Mopar verson of the Eddy Alum. RPM Performer Heads and anyone have a part number or weblink for these?

[b5blue]

Mancini Racing has them.

[1Bad70Charger]

Mancini Racing has them.

How much more than the Edelbrock Performers which are about $1,375 for the pair.

I prefer the Eddys but don't want to run into problems with my Hedman Headers and have to get new headers based upon the 7 degree angle that Ron speaks of.

[firefighter3931]

On that note is that the supplier to Mopar for the aluminum "replacement type" heads? 

Yep, those aluminum 452's are exact copies of the RPM heads and built by Edelbrock for Mopar Performance. Identical in every way except the angled plugs. 

I believe they run an extra $100 per pair but if that saves you spending $800 on a set of TTI headers it's money well spent. 


Ron

[1Bad70Charger]

and you picked up on my manifold intake from my pics?

What is a good replacement manifold you would recommend if I go the route you suggest and what exact carb would you step up to (model and cfm).

Yep, i recognize that manifold. Have a look....i'm almost 100% sure it says "performer 440" on it. The individual port runners are small & restrictive....good for bottom end power but bad for top end pull.

Here's what i would use....and it will work fine when you decide to build a stroker. The stock throttle and kickdown linkage also works with the SD.  

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-300-14/


The Comp XE284 hydraulic is 240/246 on a 110* LSA with .507/.510 valve lift

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-CL21-225-4/

Matching #911 valvesprings

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-911-16/

850 Proform carb

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PRO-67201/?image=large

Chrysler throttle adapter for 4150 carb

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-20-7/


This should get you going....


Ron

I just ordered all of the above parts suggested by Ron (Firefighter) except went with the 750 Proform Carb instead of the 850 after talking more with Ron that I am just going to build my existing 440 engine (and won't be stroking it as long as this engine holds up).  
This goes along with the Trango shift kit and dynamic 3500 stall converter I ordered also per Ron's suggestion.


Ron, your the man bud, and thanks for all your help your a true asset to the high performance Mopar Community!    Also, thanks go out to all other who have made suggestions and helped me out with all the questions I flood this forum with several weeks back!  


I saved over $100 by using a 10% discount code that Summit Racing is Honoring and wanted to pass it along to all here to help you save money for any parts ordered with summit up until 2-10-10.

The code number is XTRKAA and if they ask where you got the code tell them the 2010 Cinci Calvcade of Customs Show and you should get a 10% discount!

Man, if $ wasn't so tight right now I would have ALSO gone with Eddy Heads and I almost did, as I would have saved over $140 with the 10% discount code!  

[greenpigs]

Are you going to do all the changes at once? I am curious how just swaping the convertor does.

[1Bad70Charger]

Are you going to do all the changes at once? I am curious how just swaping the convertor does.

Will be done close to the same time the converter will be put in  by my tranny guy and then off for my top end build. Will depend on availability of my tranny guy what gets done first, but I think we already know that just an aggressive, well built, efficient, street/strip 3500 flash (dynamic) converter will probalby alone wake up the car by .4 to .5 tenths down the 1/4 mile, with my  3.91 gears, even if I did nothing else.  

I certainly will report how just the converter works if it goes in b/f the top end build   and can I verify that a new converter doesn't have to be broken in like new ring and pinion gears do?

A new converter does not need to be broken in with 100 to 200 easy miles does it?

[Ghoste]

Nope, you'll be good to go.

[1Bad70Charger]

Nope, you'll be good to go.

Thanks Ghoste.