stumped with a starting issue

[billschroeder5842]

I'm stumped so please help.

My car will not turn over although all the electrical seems to be solid-but apparently not!

My battery is new
the starter is new
I replaced a ignition switch with a NOS model
The ballast resistor gets real hot when I try although the motor does not spin

The car has a "click" from some solenoid under the instrument dash cluster. My starter solenoid also just clicks.

The trickle charge says the battery is charged although I have a hunch there is a drawn somewhere.

Aaarrgghh! I hate electrical!

[Hemidog]

Have you checked the starter relay on the firewall? Maybe the NSS( Neutral Starter Switch) does not ground the relay properly.
Try jump starting with a screwdriver from the big stud to the small stud, if the starter and battery are properly connected, the starter should turn over.

[elacruze]

My battery is new
the starter is new
The car has a "click" from some solenoid under the instrument dash cluster. My starter solenoid also just clicks.
Aaarrgghh! I hate electrical!

Stay calm!

If the solenoid on your starter clicks, that means the key circuit is good all the way there, so your problem is in the high-current circuit, or is mechanical not electrical.
You said starter is new-sometimes if the block is painted or dirty, the starter can't get a good enough ground to turn, even though it has enough to activate the solenoid. Make sure the surface of the block and starter face are clean and dry.
If you're sure that's good, check the positive battery cable to solenoid connections and the negative to engine cable connection. Again, paint on the block under the ground cable is no good.
If the connections are good, then you have to dig deeper to see if you have current passing through the starter solenoid. If you have a test light, hook the clip to negative and check that it lights on the positive battery cable at the solenoid. If so, have someone engage the starter. If the light goes out, you have a poor connection between that point and the battery. If the light stays on, move the probe to the starter motor side of the solenoid. Test again. The light should be dark until the key is turned, then should light. If it remains dark you have a bad solenoid. If it lights, the current can't pass through the motor to the ground cable.


Please do be careful to stay away from moving parts while testing.

Eric

[billschroeder5842]

Thanks for you help.

One other interesting thing....

I put the trickle charge on the battery and left it on over night. I tried to start it this morning and again the "click-click" from the solenoid. I tried to arc it with a screw driver and got nothing, zero nada.

If I can't arc jump the solenoid, would that mean the relay is bad? I'be had no starter, wiring, etc issues up to this point. I ordered a new solenoid that I'll install tonight just ot be safe.

thanks!

[charger Downunder]

On  my car i  run an extra earth from the engine to the subframe.

[elacruze]

How do you know your battery is any good? Try another if you have a known good one around.

[billschroeder5842]

Well, freak me out.....

I changed the starter relay....no change
I wiggle the battery cables to the starter......engine starts spinning. I figure I have something loose.

I begin testing a bit more, get a "click" from the relay, then a sound I never heard before then burning, melting, stinking, wiring harness. There is nothing more horrible than watching your harness melt.

After I disconnected the battery, I took the harness off and it looks like the culprit was a frayed negative (or brown wire) right near the starter connection that must have been touching the starter and grounded out. I must have been broken enough to not spin the motor and my wiggling connected it enough to spin it. My further wiggling must have grounded it out---the rubber was pretty pealed back and the wire ends were melted. An inspection of the removed wiring harness shows that the brown wire was the one melting,

So I need a new battery harness. Do you think I did any other damage to any component or if I change the harness am I good to go? I felt the firewall block immediately (immediately) after the melt and it did not seem to be hot or melted.

My wife is right I am an idiot!

[skip68]

My wife is right I am an idiot!

   We must have the same wife.    I think you may be ok.   If you have a tester make sure you have no shorts before you put power back to it.   

[elacruze]

Erm...

Maybe Nacho or somebody with specific knowledge of the starter wiring can help here.

Just be dead certain you don't have a hot control wire attached directly to ground, or vice versa. The only thing worse than watching your harness melt is watching your brand new harness melt because you overlooked something as simple as attaching the wires to the correct posts.

Ask me how I know.

[Nacho-RT74]

well some late to arrive for me ? LOL

ok, you already fried it LOL. who knows why, let's work on it

First I guess the MAIN BATT wire, the HEAVY gauge one running straight up the starter motor stud is still on decent conditions to make some test. Keep the rest of wires out of the game. Connect that batt wire to the starter stud ( if you removed it ) and jump that stud with the small stud ( screw ) at starter motor, underneath the car with a wrench or screwdriver. As stated, keep the rest of wires out of the game so remove the black wire attached to that small stud coming from starter relay SOL terminal. On that moment YOU ARE the starter relay. Becarefull with all the metal around because you can ground accidentally the wrench or screwdriver. Check if motor engages!

[Nacho-RT74]

Now that you fried some wires around will need to check all starter relay wires relative:

-yellow wire must come in from JUST the ign switch and getting power juts when put the key in START position, no esplcies anywhere, no grounded.

-Brown traced yellow comes from NSS switch and does have ground JUST in park and in neutral... on any other gear ground must be isolated, and getting no signal from that wire. Now that the SOL wire ( black going to starter motor ) got melt, and maybe get in touch with the NSS ground, check for condition of the NSS harness, specifically that brown traced yellow.

-Black SOL wire... is simply  STRAIGHT UP TO STARTER MOTOR wire, no splices not anything. feeds the high output source from starter relay to starter motor solenoid. Must be tight and clean at both ends. ISOLATED FROM ANY CHASSIS AROUND. This wire is only powered when you activates the starter relay, being jumped or making it work from ign switch.

-and, well the RED wires... more about the same... straight lines from batt to starter relay stud, and from there to bulkhead, with a fuselink in the middle, then inside the cab, straight line up to ammeter. Isolated from EVERYTHING. Thats wire attached to stud is the INPUT POWER SOURCE to Solenoid through starter relay, beside work like a power buss wjhen you conect there the wire coming from cab.

Of course also the STRAIGHT LINE from batt to starter motor stud. The heavier wire of everyone. Just the batt terminal is the splice source for that wire and the one running to relay stud.

[tricky lugnuts]

Another thing to keep in mind:

I recently had a similar issue. When I hit the key to start the car I'd get a "click," a spark, and a little poof of smoke at the positive battery terminal. Then nothing. No headlights, no starter, no flashers...

Test light at the positive post on the battery showed I had power in the battery. Test light at the starter relay where the positive wire runs showed much, much fainter.

In my case, all I had to do was clean up the connection at the positive battery post a couple of times, that is, clean up the ends of the two red wires (the one big wire that runs to the starter and the one small wire that runs to the starter relay) where they are sandwiched into the connector that attaches to the positive post on the battery.

It was dumb. It was obvious. It took me a day to figure out. (My fiancee is nice: she didn't call me an idiot!) Now it starts every time.

Get everything right and get everything clean and coat it in dielectric grease so you don't have to do it again as soon.

[billschroeder5842]

Thank you all!

Well the part arrived and my wife (who thinks I'm less of an idiot at the moment) will pick it up at the post office later today.

I'll take your suggestions to heart and report back (successfully I hope) at about 9:30 tonight!

[billschroeder5842]

Well...no joy....

First I'm having a helluva time with the main battery wire to my starter motor. I have an after market starter motor and it is real close so that wrenches fingers and such are a bitch. I got "sort of" connected....more to follow on that.

I installed the rest of the wires per instructions. Everything when smoothly--with the exception of the starter motor cable.

I called a local repair shop that I used and asked that if I bring them the car, would they tighten the nut on the starter? No problem they say.

So I put everything back together, (key out of the ignition) and go to hook up the battery and I just touch...I mean just touch..And huge sparks and it sounds like the motor spun for half a second--but it was real quick.

So, this is more messed up than I thought. so here are my questions...

From the "melt down" is my starter relay stuck and will engage the starter motor even without the key?
Is my starter "stuck" (remember the weird noise before the melt down) and will engage without the key? New starter time?
Is that semi-loose nut on the starter creating some weird grounding thing my starter? I was hoping that it would be tight enough to pop it off and then drive it to the shop 1/2 a mile away.

thanks!

[billschroeder5842]

**UPDATE**

I switched out the relay and no sparks, no smoke and a happy cranking motor. The relay must have gotten burnt stuck when I had the Bar Be Que.

The car is now at the shop getting the starter bolts tightened and a few other odds and ends. I pick it up at 5 to enjoyt the rest of the weekend in Dallas.

Thanks for all your help!

[skip68]

     Good news.   

[Hemidog]

   Good news.   

nuther charger back on the street!