1969 Dodge Daytona Bobby Allison Racer - Mecum Auction

[68X426]

[Ghoste]

Thank you for bringing up those points Doug.  Why is the issue of a "test car" even a point for discussion?  Does anyone believe that Rossi had enough money to take a regular bodied Charger stock car, swap some goobered together wing car parts onto it instead of using real wing car parts which were readily available to him at the time or a real wing stocker which he owned at the time and then run a couple of tests just to see if the stuff MIGHT work on his real wing car?
Anyway, the auction company doesn't care.  The owner has put his own neck on the line for authenticity and thats all that matters to them.  Perhaps working for the competition means I should be hoping it comes back to bite them in the ass later but all this does is to harm the hobby overall.  They are revising history just so they stick a few dimes in their pocket.

[68X426]

 

[Aero426]

Quote from poster GTS on Moparts...

I was at the auction in GulfBreeze Fla,not a real car,I think it was a 318 car,ask for the vin#,homemade nose,wing,look at the rear window stock charger,not 500 or daytona window,I think Sprag the previous owner had it made,there was a picture book of it and how they made it several years ago in his Museum,was not there the day of the auction,Bobby Allison was there to sign autographs,nice guy,he might have drove it around the parking lot but that was it,The guy who bought it also paid like 1600.00 for a fake made in China kids pedal plane?go to kruse auctions look at the results in Sprags auctions,complete fake if they let run thru the Auction Im sure someone will be disapointed,

[daytonalo]

I argue that Mario is dead why ?? Well I'm an expert in this area being from NJ and with no body you cannot document that he is dead 

[Ghoste]

But do you think it's an inside job?

[6bblgt]

What magazine is that?

[Aero426]

That is a Barrett-Jackson auction catalog from several years ago when the car was sold.   

[6bblgt]

I wasn't aware that BJ published a book/magazine with the auction results?

[Aero426]

I wasn't aware that BJ published a book/magazine with the auction results?

They don't.   That book was a catalog for prospective bidders before the auction.    Most of the large  auction houses do this.

[wingman(22)]

Doug,
I have spoke with my dads crew members and they said there was never a test car. I have also spoke with Larry Rathegab and he said it never happened either. So the car may be a real car but chances are it was not one of my fathers cars.
A few days ago the owner of the car called me and we had a long conversation concerning the car. He has told me that he is going to send the car to Terry Nichels and let him see if he can tell what kind of car it it. The guy said he does not want to mis represent the car. He only has the word of Bobby that it is real.
I also spoke to the guy who found and rebuilt the car. He said it was skinned with a 73 or 74 body and had part of a nose on it. The car was also red and gold on the exterior. That is why they think it was one of my dads cars. So other than that and Bobby there is no other proof of the cars origin.
The owner also told me he will not sell the car if it can not be determined as to what it is.
I have also talked to Mecum and they only have the paperwork the owner gave them saying it was an Allison car. They have also been in meetings trying to figure out how to deal with this. They tell me they are a reputable company and do not want this to go bad.
And also if you read the description the car is not being represented as the 305 car but only as a test car for the 305. And I think after talking to mechanics and Rathegab that did not happen. The car could still be a real race car but who knows where it came from. So it sounds like someone will be trying to find out. And if there is no decision it may not go to auction.

Bill

[Aero426]

Well, Terry could certainly tell if the car was Nichels built, or not in a matter of moments.  

As you know, Larry Rathgeb's memory is very good.  On, something as specific as the 305 program, when he says the engine was not even available until Speedweeks 1971, that would make it impossible for any kind of test program, let alone that Bobby had left the team and was on his own.

Hopefully clear heads will prevail on the matter.   Thanks for getting involved and letting us know.

[moparstuart]

  they are advertising the car all over TV , in every add mecum runs and hyping it up big time .  What a crock .

[68X426]

Any one seen pictures of the motor? Any one? Even one pic? Does the seller know how to open the hood?

[moparstuart]

Any one seen pictures of the motor? Any one? Even one pic? Does the seller know how to open the hood?

they show the tiny thing , on the TV commercial

[wingcar]

I find it somewhat humorous that there is so much debate surrounding the pedigree of this "Daytona" (and I use the label "Daytona" very loosely when referring to this car).   So many have already pointed out the numerous faults with the vehicle, and anyone with even a passing knowledge of wingcars can point out what amounts to a poor attempt at best to make a "Daytona" clone.  This is sad since someone put a lot of effort into a really nice paint job, replicating Bobby's race #22.  It's sad that they didn't take the body work to the correct level to match the paint. 
The fact that Bobby said it was his car is questionable as well since as pointed out by Bobby himself; he has no memoires pre-dating his near life ending accident.  Is it possible that the car was one of his race cars...in a past life??  (Just asking)  And, his signature on the car doesn't mean he is actually saying it's his car.  Richard Petty  has signed numerous "street" Superbirds painted up as his old #43, but that doesn't mean he's saying each one was his! 
I will not rehash what everyone has already said, only that if anyone buys this vehicle without doing their homework and really believes it's an original "Daytona"......should remember the following saying....
"A fool and his money are soon parted!"       

(Just my two cents)

[Aero426]

I will not rehash what everyone has already said, only that if anyone buys this vehicle without doing their homework and really believes it's an original "Daytona"......should remember the following saying....
"A fool and his money are soon parted!"        

One of the difficulties with period Grand National cars, is that there is definite lack of knowledge of their construction, and what should be there, and what should not.  There are only so many original cars left that have not been hacked up (and that's not many).  But the truth is that these are completely specialized cars that bear literally nothing in common with the street versions other than the shape of the body (before being cheated up!),  and in the case of the Mopars, the general torsion bar suspension layout.   You would think a blind person could figure it out that there is something about that "Daytona" this is not quite right.  But it just takes one sucker to believe the story.

The 1969 Bobby Allison Mercury below is an excellent example.    It's done much better than the Daytona in question and looks very attractive, but on close inspection, it is not a real Holman-Moody car, but a local sportsman type car made to look like a GN car with a mild small block engine.   There is a reason the hood was not open.   Also, you would NEVER see those hokey external trunk hinges on a factory Grand National car.   Yet, this car has also been passed off as a real deal car and was displayed at the Amelia Island Concours, which is one of the most prestigious invitational car shows in the country.   It hasn't been sold since it was built, but one day...

[wingman(22)]

I hate to say that Bobby has not only signed the car but he has said it was his test car. The owner said Bobby told him that at the auction before he bought it. So in this case the signature does carry weight.
That is what convinced the owner to buy it. He the owner also has many other cars in his collection and they are normal street cars with numbers to show what they are. In the case of the race cars most are said to be real by individuals who drove or built them. I have only seen a couple of cars that actually have the Nichels stamps on them. And they are ones that have not gone through a restoration from a rusty grave.
I defense of the owner I believe the car was misrepresented to him. But as I said earlier he is going to try to verify it or not sell it he said. He is as upset as the rest of the car world it appears.

[moparstuart]

I hate to say that Bobby has not only signed the car but he has said it was his test car. The owner said Bobby told him that at the auction before he bought it. So in this case the signature does carry weight.
That is what convinced the owner to buy it. He the owner also has many other cars in his collection and they are normal street cars with numbers to show what they are. In the case of the race cars most are said to be real by individuals who drove or built them. I have only seen a couple of cars that actually have the Nichels stamps on them. And they are ones that have not gone through a restoration from a rusty grave.
I defense of the owner I believe the car was misrepresented to him. But as I said earlier he is going to try to verify it or not sell it he said. He is as upset as the rest of the car world it appears.

even if he felt it was real and it was misreprsented to him , he should have still restored the body with the correct looking components 

[Aero426]

Bill is it correct that the current owner is NOT Gordon Sprague.    Sprague is the guy who built the car and it was up for auction in early December exactly represented like it is now.   I am assuming the Mecum seller is someone  who bought it from Sprague. 

[RTDaddy]

 

[tan top]

I hate to say that Bobby has not only signed the car but he has said it was his test car. The owner said Bobby told him that at the auction before he bought it. So in this case the signature does carry weight.
That is what convinced the owner to buy it. He the owner also has many other cars in his collection and they are normal street cars with numbers to show what they are. In the case of the race cars most are said to be real by individuals who drove or built them. I have only seen a couple of cars that actually have the Nichels stamps on them. And they are ones that have not gone through a restoration from a rusty grave.
I defense of the owner I believe the car was misrepresented to him. But as I said earlier he is going to try to verify it or not sell it he said. He is as upset as the rest of the car world it appears.

even if he felt it was real and it was misreprsented to him , he should have still restored the body with the correct looking components 

yes thats true ,  you would of thought that  !! don't make sence

[grdprx]

Interesting article!  Sweet looking car too!   Thought ya'll would enjoy it.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/blog/from_the_marbles/post/Get-your-wallet-Bobby-Allison-s-69-Dodge-Charg;_ylt=AghJ1EqU5Jts1WaRcFXDS3nov7YF?urn=nascar,215220

[Akron_Charger]

Buddy Bakers #6 Daytona (outside pole in the Daytona 500) is on the Bay right now! Check it out

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodge-Charger-Daytona-Outside-Pole-Position-of-the-1970-Daytona-500_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem27aec2a0a2QQitemZ170435715234QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks

[chargerboy69]

Interesting article!  Sweet looking car too!   Thought ya'll would enjoy it.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/blog/from_the_marbles/post/Get-your-wallet-Bobby-Allison-s-69-Dodge-Charg;_ylt=AghJ1EqU5Jts1WaRcFXDS3nov7YF?urn=nascar,215220

Quite a bit of debate about the car already in the Aero Forum.  Interesting read there too.

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,65464.0.html