What are some good mods I should do for my car? (would love Pro Tourers input)

[elanmars]

Mainly suspension but anything to make it ride smoother, better handling, etc. This is my daily driver and I want it to be solid through and through. My car is mostly stock at the moment and I want to change that, doesn't ride as great as it could be (the 14' tires don't help much either but that will be changed soon with disc brakes and bigger wheels/tires).

Any recommendations, from the cheapest "good" mods to reasonably priced. This will be an ongoing, driving project for me and hope to keep on improving it as I go along (unless I end up selling the car if someone gives me an offer I can't refuse and I happen to find a decent 68-69 to replace it with).

I've heard good things about Edelbrock shocks. That's a start for me. I also hear a lot about Firm Feel steering boxes. Anything I could do for the body to shake less at higher speeds? and I'm not talking crazy speeds here, around the 70-80 range. Any body stiffening stuff recommended?

[69bronzeT5]

Regarding body stiffening, I'd personally install subframe connectors. A bunch of places make them but I've heard very good things about XV's connectors. Also, you can't go wrong getting any of XV's chassis stiffening things like their inner fender braces. The connectors and braces require welding though. Firm Feel makes some amazing parts so you won't loose by getting anything from them. Good front and rear sway bars are a good thing to add also. Firm Feel and Hellwig make some good bars. Like you, I've heard very good things about Edelbrock Performer shocks and they will be going in all of my Mopars. Now I'm not positive about this one but I've heard bigger sized torsion bars help also but don't quote me on that one. Hope this helps!

[Foreman72]

i would look at these two for starters...

http://www.xvmotorsports.com/

http://www.p-s-t.com/

http://www.firmfeel.com/

the frame connectors (and torque boxes) are relatively cheap and will help a lot...you may also want to check into using poly bushings in some places...and depending on what engine you have, beefing up your t bars...

i have a 72 with plans similar to those you have...i'm reinforcing my k frame, rebuilding the front end with a pst kit and adding .96 t bars...the back will have HD 6 leaf springs with edelbrock shocks and sway bars on the front and back...but thats only my plan...its bound to change when working/buying time comes around...

[68X426]

Regarding body stiffening, I'd personally install subframe connectors. A bunch of places make them but I've heard very good things about XV's connectors. Also, you can't go wrong getting any of XV's chassis stiffening things like their inner fender braces. The connectors and braces require welding though. Firm Feel makes some amazing parts so you won't loose by getting anything from them. Good front and rear sway bars are a good thing to add also. Firm Feel and Hellwig make some good bars. Like you, I've heard very good things about Edelbrock Performer shocks and they will be going in all of my Mopars. Now I'm not positive about this one but I've heard bigger sized torsion bars help also but don't quote me on that one. Hope this helps!

You are on the right track also with the tires and brakes. Big torsion bars did wonders for both my Road Runner and Charger, especially the RR with all the up-front weight of the Hemi.

[NorwayCharger]

Call Bill, he will help you
http://www.reillymotorsports.com/

[Hemidog]

Regarding body stiffening, I'd personally install subframe connectors. A bunch of places make them but I've heard very good things about XV's connectors. Also, you can't go wrong getting any of XV's chassis stiffening things like their inner fender braces. The connectors and braces require welding though. Firm Feel makes some amazing parts so you won't loose by getting anything from them. Good front and rear sway bars are a good thing to add also. Firm Feel and Hellwig make some good bars. Like you, I've heard very good things about Edelbrock Performer shocks and they will be going in all of my Mopars. Now I'm not positive about this one but I've heard bigger sized torsion bars help also but don't quote me on that one. Hope this helps!

You are on the right track also with the tires and brakes. Big torsion bars did wonders for both my Road Runner and Charger, especially the RR with all the up-front weight of the Hemi.

What size did you go with? over 1 inch?

[68X426]

1 inch installed. I think the original Hemi bar was .92. The ride "feels" right to me, not stiff at all. Firm Feel has several bars larger, but then the street ride begins to be compromised (so I'm told).

[Hemidog]

I'm tearing into my front suspension at the moment, and don't really know what bars to go with, .92, .94, .96 or larger..

Maybe 1 inch won't be too stiff after all.

[HPP]

As a daily driver, you won't be able to afford alot of down time doing trick stuff, so I'll keep my recommendations simply and limited to weekend type upgrades.

Body bracing; this is the foundation of it all and is necessary and I'd recommend it for any type of car. XV has a nice kit and is very good. You can buy it in pieces and add as time and funds allows. At a minumum, I'd say torque boxes. Subframe connectors, even the ones that don't touch the floor, help a lot too.  Figure around $100 per unit your adding.

Wheels/tires; this will be your single biggest expense and improvement. The advancements in tire tech since the heydays of 14" is huge. At the least, you should look at some 15" to expand the choices. 17" tires seem to have the broadest choice of tires, grip, and price, but cost more in initial wheel purchases compared to the 15" ones you can score at swap meets. This can be a few hundred to a few thousand dollars.

Suspension; you didn't say what engine you have, but 1" t-bars are a very good starting point. Combine with an XHD style leaf spring, 1.125 front sway bar and a .75 frame hung or .95 axle hung rear sway bar and you hanging tough in the turns. FWIW, most the XV kits start at 1.12 and 1.18 t-bar sizes. For shocks, I've heard good things about E-brocks on street cars, but if you going to get into serious driving in autcross or lap times, they fade and feel weird. They are certainly a step up from basic off the shelf auto parts store units, but not race quality.  Singel adjustable untis are the ticket if you use your car on multiple venues or step up to the big t-bars. Since shocks control the action of the suspension, you want as good a shock as you can afford and cheaping out here will give you cheap results. Figure $500-1500+ total for this depending on source of parts. Sway bar you can get cheap at swap meets, shocks you'll want new. Other parts vary slightly from place to place.

Brakes; upgrade to the stock 11.75 disc up front. great stopping power at a value price. As good as some of the more wiz-bang expensive units out there. rear drums are fine for a driver. $200-1000, again depending on sources.

Steering; Firm Feel boxes are nice and replace the light stock feel with a more modern feel. While not a direct relationship to better handling, they make things feel better. I wouldn't bother with bigger tie rods or anything like that. $400

Bushings; poly does firm things up, but rubber will do too. I prefer poly, but not sure if your going to rebuild yoususpension so it may be just as well to go with what you have for now. You will want to change the upper control arm bushings for offset units from Moog. These allow you to gain additional caster which will help with stability at speed and return to center feel of the steering and do it for $60 instead of the $300 tubular arms will cost you. Around $100-200 if you go thte full kit.

Alignment; ditch the stock specs. Set the ride height where you like it with the tires you end up with. Set it with the nose slightly down, then tell the shop not to mess with the height. Ask for as much positive caster as possible up to 5* balanced against -.5 to -1* negative camber. Set total toe to 1/16 in. $50-100

[elanmars]

As a daily driver, you won't be able to afford alot of down time doing trick stuff, so I'll keep my recommendations simply and limited to weekend type upgrades.

Body bracing; this is the foundation of it all and is necessary and I'd recommend it for any type of car. XV has a nice kit and is very good. You can buy it in pieces and add as time and funds allows. At a minumum, I'd say torque boxes. Subframe connectors, even the ones that don't touch the floor, help a lot too.  Figure around $100 per unit your adding.

Wheels/tires; this will be your single biggest expense and improvement. The advancements in tire tech since the heydays of 14" is huge. At the least, you should look at some 15" to expand the choices. 17" tires seem to have the broadest choice of tires, grip, and price, but cost more in initial wheel purchases compared to the 15" ones you can score at swap meets. This can be a few hundred to a few thousand dollars.

Suspension; you didn't say what engine you have, but 1" t-bars are a very good starting point. Combine with an XHD style leaf spring, 1.125 front sway bar and a .75 frame hung or .95 axle hung rear sway bar and you hanging tough in the turns. FWIW, most the XV kits start at 1.12 and 1.18 t-bar sizes. For shocks, I've heard good things about E-brocks on street cars, but if you going to get into serious driving in autcross or lap times, they fade and feel weird. They are certainly a step up from basic off the shelf auto parts store units, but not race quality.  Singel adjustable untis are the ticket if you use your car on multiple venues or step up to the big t-bars. Since shocks control the action of the suspension, you want as good a shock as you can afford and cheaping out here will give you cheap results. Figure $500-1500+ total for this depending on source of parts. Sway bar you can get cheap at swap meets, shocks you'll want new. Other parts vary slightly from place to place.

Brakes; upgrade to the stock 11.75 disc up front. great stopping power at a value price. As good as some of the more wiz-bang expensive units out there. rear drums are fine for a driver. $200-1000, again depending on sources.

Steering; Firm Feel boxes are nice and replace the light stock feel with a more modern feel. While not a direct relationship to better handling, they make things feel better. I wouldn't bother with bigger tie rods or anything like that. $400

Bushings; poly does firm things up, but rubber will do too. I prefer poly, but not sure if your going to rebuild yoususpension so it may be just as well to go with what you have for now. You will want to change the upper control arm bushings for offset units from Moog. These allow you to gain additional caster which will help with stability at speed and return to center feel of the steering and do it for $60 instead of the $300 tubular arms will cost you. Around $100-200

Alignment; ditch the stock specs. Set the ride height where you like it with the tires you end up with. Set it with the nose slightly down, then tell the shop not to mess with the height. Ask for as much positive caster as possible up to 5* balanced against -.5 to 1* negative camber. Set total toe to 1/16 in. $50-100

wow this is just what I needed!!!! super awesome, thank you thank you thank you. My engine is a 400. Right now I'm getting extremely poor mileage too, like 7-8 mpg, so as soon as I get it back from having it painted, will have to see whats up. I'll have to ask in one of the other forums how to make it more efficient with the gas mileage.

[68X426]

MPG of 7-8 is not out of the norm if you have low gears, drive in stop-and-go traffic, and/or have a foot that likes to hot rod. Measure the Fun per Gallon, not just the mpg. 

[elanmars]

^I usually would not mind, except now I'm down to just the Charger and don't have the income to get another car, plus having a new baby, new school semester, etc. So I have to be as tight as I can be.

Getting rid of the Charger is out of the question though, I'm hard headed that way..haha...it's like that sticker "my wife, yes...my dog, maybe...my dodge, never!!"

[HPP]

Your welcome.

Mileage wise, make sure your getting ignition advance, make sure your fuel mix is leaned out. Otherwise, compression is the best way to not only increase power, but increase mileage. The 440 in my truck averages 13-14 mpg with 4:10 gears, auto trans, and a 750 4bbl. But, it also runs lots of compression and is probably on the limits of pump gas  without detonating.

[elanmars]

^I don't know anything about compression-what exactly gets done and what would I have to do to keep it up? I'm still very much a newbie when it comes to engines/the mechanical side and need help in that area. If I take it to someone, how would I go about doing compression? thanks.

[WHITE AND RED 69]

Hotchkis sway bars will help. Definitly go with the edelbrock shocks and subframe connectors.

get the firm feel fast ratio pitman and idler arms along with a stage 2 or 3 steering box. Thats what I'm planning on doing next month to get the steering feeling better. 

[Dukes69]

I would start with what you can afford.  I've got some US car tool connectors coming and a firm feel box.  It's a start.  My plan was the XV stage 1 stuff, but I don't think I can keep the money saved for long enough to plop it all down at once.  So I'm probably going to do some firm feel bars (1"+), Hotchkis sway bars, undecided on rear leafs or shocks.  Another good thing you can do is keep the weight down.  Not sure where on our cars, but every little bit helps.

[bull]

Steering; Firm Feel boxes are nice and replace the light stock feel with a more modern feel. While not a direct relationship to better handling, they make things feel better. I wouldn't bother with bigger tie rods or anything like that. $400

I'll state the opposite and say I would go with the larger C-body tie rod setup, especially if your current setup is ready to be replaced. In many cases you can get a Moog C-body tie rod set locally for less than $100.

[HPP]

See, I think in a competition environment, like oval track, where other cars are leaning on you, there is an advantage in having something that can absorb higher tensile loads and better resist bending. In regular driving, solo, or non-contact racing, use of the minimum to be safe is fine. Since a 9/16 rod end can absorb over 28,000 psi, or about 7 G of load from a 4000# car, the nearly 38,000 tensile load of an 11/16 is simply overkill.

Now, flex in the factory style split sleeve tie rod sleeve could be occurring. To eliminate this flex point, simply converting to a solid tie rod sleeve eliminates the potential for flex.

[motorcitydak]

Hotchkis TVS, it will be bad ass. That is what I am going to use on my car except Ill need the '70 front sway bar and am using different connectors. Also Im going to have a linked rear axle so I cannot use their leaf springs. But check out Hotchkis.net and the E-Max Challenger

[autodynamics]

Great suggestions all the way around . I would add to this list a set of 2"drop spindles. You want proper geometry with an aggressive lowered stance. Since I did them it has to be one of top ten upgrades I've done.....and I've done allot......

[elanmars]

I need to re-read this thread, as I have a new '69 now that's far more complete, better, smoother ride. it was one of travis' cars. i'll do the disc brake conversion some time this year and maybe upgrade the wheels/tires as well as some of the suggestions here. love that this car is white but with black tinted windows and the black stripe.

thanks a bunch guys!!

[1968_Charger]

im interested in making the my charger drive better and ive also been wanting to lower the front with the torsion bars, but doing that causes the car to get bouncy right? reading this made me a little confused.

Alignment; ditch the stock specs. Set the ride height where you like it with the tires you end up with. Set it with the nose slightly down, then tell the shop not to mess with the height. Ask for as much positive caster as possible up to 5* balanced against -.5 to 1* negative camber. Set total toe to 1/16 in. $50-100

so by doing this what is accomplished?

[HPP]

It depends. Lowering the car via turning down the torsion bars reduces control arm travel which may have the car hitting the bump stops more easily if you have the original sized t-bars. This reduction in travel may not allow the shock enough travel length to control the motion either. If you have bigger than stock bars, or if you use lowering spindles, than it may not be an issue. Also, if you just turning it down an inch or two, it is not a problem. When you pushing 3,4, or more inches of drop, it becomes a problem.

The changes in wheel alignment increase directional stability at speed, improve tracking at speed, and increase return to center motion of the steering wheel, and allow better tire contact patches during cornering. The stock specs also tended to put the car in a nose high attitude which is not desireable from a performance nor appearance standpoint. The reason why you would want to do this is because the original alignment specs were for narrow, hard, bias ply tires, which are not very tolerante of a wide range of adjsutment without exhibiting bad wear and behavior. Radials tires, on the other hand, are a more forgiving and tolerant construction method that can use a wider range of adjustment.

[1968_Charger]

so if i wanted to lower my torsion bars then should i play around with different heights until its driving and sitting like i want it to, then take it to be aligned and just tell them what you wrote on here?

[HPP]

First step is to get the wheels and tires you want. Then set the ride heigth you want, then have the alignment set up. Keep in mind that as you get lower in a mopar, it becomes more difficult to get postive caster. So, while you can ask for those specs at the alignment shop, they may not be able to hit them spot on and may come back with an alternate they can hit. Just remember that you want as much postive caster as possible, with slightly negative to zero camber and minimal toe. The big rub with mopars is the interrelationship of caster and camber and as you increase one, you may reduce the other so it becomes a trade off very quickly on what you can acheive.

[1968_Charger]

great info. thanks!  ive never really took the time to understand how to setup a suspension. this helps.

[HPP]

Here is a good summary of step by step mods and the resulting seat of the pants feel they produced. While this is on an E body, the results would be similar for a B body. Definetly worth a read

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=68667.0

[Jarven]

Great suggestions all the way around . I would add to this list a set of 2"drop spindles. You want proper geometry with an aggressive lowered stance. Since I did them it has to be one of top ten upgrades I've done.....and I've done allot......

Pardon my bad english, located in Sweden.
This is the 3rd thread I'll bump..  Sorry about that but there was something here that I would like to have som more input on before I buy more parts for my precious charger!

My -69 charger is a 440 R/T so I feel I should keep it as original as possible but still with a better handling compared to riding on a drunken elephants ass. Recently lowered the car 3-4" just by losening the original torsionbars and modifying the rear hangers and added some lowering blocks. This was just to get a feel for the rideheight with my 19" wheels and to see how the front geometry changed. With no front alignment done it was scary doing any corners whatsoever! Cruisin above 80mph can be compared with steering a boat in full storm.. Its all over the road
The RMS and XV stuff look really nice but is not an option for me.

I have bought this so far:
MOOG UCA offset bushings
MOOG Upper ball joints
MOOG Lower ball joints
Energy Suspension bushing kit
Energy Suspension leaf spring bushings
Edelbrock performer IAS Front
Edelbrock performer IAS Rear
Summit sway bar kit front
Summit sway bar kit rear
Torsion bar 0,98" Mopar perf

What I'm planning on buying after reading numerous threads about handling both here at DC.com and over at Cuda-Challenger.com:
US Cartools full set of torqueboxes, front and rear.
US Cartools subframe connectors
Firm feels stageIII steering box (skipping out on the fast ratio arms though, wise or unwise?)

What I need help deciding is this:
Autodynamics (love your car) suggests adding 2" dropped spindles to get better geometry.
I remember reading a thread concerning E-body geometry (can't find it now) where the conclusion was that lowering the car actually improved the geometry without using dropped spindles IF you could fix the caster issue with f.ex offset bushings or hotchkis tubular UCA's. Lowering the steering tie rods fix point on the spindle would also reduce bump steer. Bump steer however would have been increased if dropped spindles were used.
Taller spindles would (atleast in my mind) give me better geometry in the front. Are there any drop spindles out there that are slightly taller than stock?
My biggest concern lowering my charger as much as I have without using dropped spindles is the increased shock travel.
Any good ideas what to do here. All input is greatly appreciated!

Magnus

[mpdlawdog]

 

[MSRacing89]

We do not run drop spindles as the most important thing is lowering your CG and at the same time minimizing camber gain and bump steer.  That is where some of the development done by Hotchkis and others is important.  We do run all the adjustable front end parts to allow us to regain all the correct settings.  We run around 2½ to 3 inches of shock travel.  You should not see more then that at the track and for sure not more than that on the street.

[HPP]

Pardon my bad english, located in Sweden.

No pardons necessary, we all speak Charger here!

I have bought this so far:
MOOG UCA offset bushings
MOOG Upper ball joints
MOOG Lower ball joints
Energy Suspension bushing kit
Energy Suspension leaf spring bushings
Edelbrock performer IAS Front
Edelbrock performer IAS Rear
Summit sway bar kit front
Summit sway bar kit rear
Torsion bar 0,98" Mopar perf


What I'm planning on buying after reading numerous threads about handling both here at DC.com and over at Cuda-Challenger.com:
US Cartools full set of torqueboxes, front and rear.
US Cartools subframe connectors
Firm feels stageIII steering box (skipping out on the fast ratio arms though, wise or unwise?)

This is a good list of parts to start with. The torsion bars are a bit small, I'd recommend the 1,0 size for a big block car, but even the 0,96 bars your looking at are a good step up from stock. The shocks may be questionable for the simple fact that you have lowered your car quite a bit. This may put them out of the ideal range of operation. You might check the technical aspects of their operating range and compare that to the stock range of the Charger. I believe the Edelbrock shocks are designed for cars that are lowered slightly-2 to 3 inches from stock, but the stock ride height of a Charger is actually rather high, so the 4" you've dropped it may be okay.

The fast ratio arms are a personal preference. If you drive on a lot of close, tight in, low speed (under 60kph) streets, they may make steering a car as large as the Charger a little easier. If the roads in your area tend to be more open and high speed (90+ kph), you may want to skip them.

What I need help deciding is this:
Autodynamics (love your car) suggests adding 2" dropped spindles to get better geometry.
I remember reading a thread concerning E-body geometry (can't find it now) where the conclusion was that lowering the car actually improved the geometry without using dropped spindles IF you could fix the caster issue with f.ex offset bushings or hotchkis tubular UCA's. Lowering the steering tie rods fix point on the spindle would also reduce bump steer. Bump steer however would have been increased if dropped spindles were used.
Taller spindles would (at least in my mind) give me better geometry in the front. Are there any drop spindles out there that are slightly taller than stock?
My biggest concern lowering my charger as much as I have without using dropped spindles is the increased shock travel.
Any good ideas what to do here. All input is greatly appreciated!

Magnus

This is where things get tricky. In stock form with stock geometry, bump steer is a problem on old mopars. This is because the torsion bar interferes with the inner tie rod location and puts the tie rod in an alternate arc than the control arm. In the analysis I've done, using a drop spindle creates additional bump steer over stock. Using a taller spindle creates additional bump steer over stock, but not as much extra bump as the drop spindle creates. One advantage the taller spindles do have over either other spindle is that they are lighter, meaning less unsprung weight, and they create additional camber gain as the suspension cycles. The extra camber gain helps keep the tire vertical to the road surface as the car body rolls over.

Lowering the car using the stock spindle creates more favorable roll center geometry. If you have larger sized torsion bars and the roads where you drive a smooth, this may be the best way to go as it reduces body roll and retains stock geometry in body roll. But, like you mention, getting caster with this combo and the stock upper control arms become a trade off. The easy fix a tubular arm with additional caster built in. Additionally, as you mention, lowering more than a couple inches usually means you need to get a shorter shock to mach the reduced travel. These are out there and available in fixed valving, single adjustable or double adjustable if you really want to dial in suspension performance. The stock spindle is a forged steel unit.

Lowering the car with drop spindles creates more favorable range of motion but does not change the arm motion geometry much from original. So, if you use a smaller diameter torsion bar and/or the roads where you drive are more rough, this may be the best combination. This allows you to achieve a low ride height, with a fair amount of suspension travel and without the caster/camber compromise of using stock control arms. Another bonus is it allows you to use the typical, made for mopar shocks in stock lengths. The Magnumforce drop spindle is a cast steel unit.

There are 2" drop spindles in the taller configuration made by Fatman Fabrications. These were designed for use in street rods that utilize the mopar transverse torsion bar set up. These spindles are large and heavy compared to the other two above. Off the top of my head, I think stock spindles are 5#, Magnums are 6# and Fatmans are 10#. So you will be increasing unsprung weight using these, and that is never a good thing. The spindles are a large steel plate with a welded ball joint mount and a pressed in axle shaft. I have never heard of any failures with these units, but I think their street rod background means most have not been driven exceedingly hard. If you are really interested in the camber gain achieved by tall spindles, you can use an Afco raised roll center ball joint. These do come with the mopar thread in configuration, are very smooth in motion, and are rebuildable. however, if your using large sway bars to limit body roll, camber gain may not be a big issue.

Hope that helps you in your decision.

We do not run drop spindles as the most important thing is lowering your CG and at the same time minimizing camber gain and bump steer.  That is where some of the development done by Hotchkis and others is important.  We do run all the adjustable front end parts to allow us to regain all the correct settings.  We run around 2½ to 3 inches of shock travel.  You should not see more then that at the track and for sure not more than that on the street.

These are somewhat conditional statements. Obviously dropping the COG and reducing bump steer are big issues, but desired camber gain is really dependant upon body roll, road/track banking, and down force. I'd also say the desired suspension travel is dependant upon road conditions and wheel rates. Softer rates and crappy roads will use up suspension travel quickly, so you want to make sure you have enough to prevent bottoming.  

TC

[dangina]

First step is to get the wheels and tires you want. Then set the ride heigth you want, then have the alignment set up. Keep in mind that as you get lower in a mopar, it becomes more difficult to get postive caster. So, while you can ask for those specs at the alignment shop, they may not be able to hit them spot on and may come back with an alternate they can hit. Just remember that you want as much postive caster as possible, with slightly negative to zero camber and minimal toe. The big rub with mopars is the interrelationship of caster and camber and as you increase one, you may reduce the other so it becomes a trade off very quickly on what you can acheive.

I usually like around -2 to -2.5 degress of camber on my cars - how much castor can I get with that on the old mopar?

bilstein shocks are a must (and cheaper than the edlebrocks), and bigger sway bars to improve handling, a 1" torsion bar is good (cheap at pst), most pro-touring guys run the 1.06 bars, the more serious ones run bigger than that.
I have a buddy who ran a rms on his dodge dart and runs the billsteins and swaybars on his 71 cuda and swears the difference is minimal and that he shouldn't have spent so much money on the rms kit.

Best deal I found on tubular sway bars - you won't find them cheaper and only took a week to get them:


http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=16954

http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=10105



for reference:



http://www.hellwigproducts.com/products/street-performance/tubular-sway-bars/

for cheap big brake kits doctor diff is the way to go:

http://www.doctordiff.com/?page_id=41

[JeffYoung]

I am an SCCA road racer but love my old Charger (72 Rallye, 440, 4 speed).  Have been slowly working on the handling and am now very happy with it. It is still tire limited but the "feel" is similar to mid 90s European performance sedan.

Firm Feel Stage 3
Biggest T-bars they ahd (1.19?)
"Road race" rear leafs
Bilstein shock package
Tubular uppers to get the caster.
11/16 tie rods
Poly bushes all around.
Biggest front and rear sways FF offers.


I'd say the change over stock is dramatic. Car does NOT ride harsh. It's fun ride. Has some squeaks and rattles but overall very fun. Highly recommend the FF stuff.

[HPP]

I usually like around -2 to -2.5 degress of camber on my cars - how much castor can I get with that on the old mopar?

That's a lot of camber, but you probably needed on the strut suspension you used to run. On a strictly street car, I'd say your going to wear out tires unsually fast with that much camber on a mopar. As you eliminate body roll, you can reduce the amount of static camber required as the mopar SLA suspension design will produce adequate negative camber gain as it cycles. Additionally, that much camber may make it very difficult to get postive caster. In a stone stock set up, I'd bet you will be hard pressed to get more than 1-2* of positive caster with 2-2.5* negative camber.You can manipulate that figure some with offset bushings or tubular control arms, but that is the compromise with pre 72 B body bushing set up.

[dangina]

I usually like around -2 to -2.5 degress of camber on my cars - how much castor can I get with that on the old mopar?

That's a lot of camber, but you probably needed on the strut suspension you used to run. On a strictly street car, I'd say your going to wear out tires unsually fast with that much camber on a mopar. As you eliminate body roll, you can reduce the amount of static camber required as the mopar SLA suspension design will produce adequate negative camber gain as it cycles. Additionally, that much camber may make it very difficult to get postive caster. In a stone stock set up, I'd bet you will be hard pressed to get more than 1-2* of positive caster with 2-2.5* negative camber.You can manipulate that figure some with offset bushings or tubular control arms, but that is the compromise with pre 72 B body bushing set up.

good to know - thanks for the reply

[Jarven]

Thanks for all the well thought replies.
I regret buying the 0.98" T-bars. Should have gone for bigger but I guess I can always buy new ones if I'm not happy with them.
I'll stick with the stock spindles for now but maybe I'll get those afco raised upper ball joints and see how that works out.
Tubular UCA's is quite expensive in my opinion so I'll stick with the stock ones for now since I already have the moog offset bushings for them.
When it comes to swaybars I believe bigger is not always better. Maybe I'll build myself som adjustable "knife" swaybars later.
Any suggestion on aftermarket adjustable strut rods?

I have one more (kinda stupid) question.
I see that some companys sell "adjustable steering rods". I haven't touched my charger yet so I don't know for sure but being used to european cars I believed the stock steering tie rods were already adjustable. Aren't they? If already adjustable, whats the advantage with the aftermarket ones?

[dangina]

I have one more (kinda stupid) question.
I see that some companys sell "adjustable steering rods". I haven't touched my charger yet so I don't know for sure but being used to european cars I believed the stock steering tie rods were already adjustable. Aren't they? If already adjustable, whats the advantage with the aftermarket ones?

Removes unwanted play and excessive movement in the front suspension.
also positively positions the lower control arm.
I`m not sure if the stock ones has as much adjustability as the aftermarket ones..