To build a stroker or not?

[super_dave]

Hi everyone, I've been wondering if I should build my own motor or not.  I'm no mechanic and have never worked on engines before.  I have a 69 440 block and was thinking about getting a performance shop to build me a stroker.  Gets pretty expensive by the time it's turnkey you know.  Is it possible for me to build it myself or is that a no no?  Whadda ya think?

[GreenMachine]

   I usually have the machine shop assemble the short block. I believe they charge less than $100 for that. From my experience, 1st drop off your block at the machine shop and have them do a test bore on the worst cylinder to find out the overbore. 2nd, order your stroker kit with the proper oversize pistons. 3rd, take it all to the machine shop.
   With all that you're looking at $1,000-1,300 for the machine work (around here anyway). If they degree the cam it's a little more. The rest of the build is easy, but since you said you have no experience, buy this book and it should give you all the info you need.

http://www.amazon.com/Big-block-mopar-engines-Don-Taylor/dp/1557881901/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261173757&sr=8-2

   This one too:

http://www.amazon.com/Big-Block-Mopar-Performance-Modifications/dp/1557883025/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261173757&sr=8-3

[Chatt69chgr]

I think you could do it if you carefully read all the posts on here concerning this type of thing.  You need to know exactly what you want out of the engine and how you plan to use it and in what so you can intelligently come up with a overall engine design.  It has been noted that unless you plan on running exhaust headers you would be waisting your time since your engine would not be able to breathe properly to use the extra cubes.  There are a whole lot of technical questions you have to answer to come up with your build plan.  Only asking questions and reading a lot will yield these answers.
You might find a local engine builder guy that could be your knowledgeable assistant to lead you through the process for a nominal fee. 
And you would probably need to dyno the completed engine to get the timing down and the air fuel ratio correct.

[super_dave]

Thanks for the input guys, very helpful!  I know you can buy a turnkey 475 HP 510 trq for $10,750.00  I thought that was a lot of dough and am looking to save.  All I have is the block, so will need everything from there.  If I budget $2000.00 for a machine shop, and $4000.00 for the rest for a 500HP build, will that get me through the engine component, or not enough?  The car is an original 318, so I realize there will be other conversion stuff I need including the tranny, rear end, complete exhaust system, ignition etc.. One guy priced me a turnkey 440 build 505HP for around $9500.00.  Is that a decent price or will I save doing it myself?  Thanks a ton, appreciatte the input.  

[Scaregrabber]

Without knowing your mechanical abilities and the capabilities of your local machine shop it's really hard to judge. If you have a good local machine shop I would buy the stroker kit from mancini, I think it costs about $2k and includes Diamond pistons and other good stuff. Then I would take that to the machine shop and have them build the short block for you. You'll probably be into the short block for $4k at this point. Then you could buy some Edelbrock 84cc heads, have the machine shop check them and bolt them on, Now you're at $6k. Then you'll need stuff like rocker gear, cam and kit and an intake and ignition. You should have a real good running engine for $8k with quality parts.

Sheldon

[super_dave]

Yeaah that sounds like a pretty logical approach.  If I land up spending 9K that would be my budget in total.  I'm just wanting to get the most performance for my dollars.  I've been doing a lot of reading in this section and getting some ideas.  I also ordered that DVD listed here for engine building etc...  Hopefully that will help me make a decision.  I had no idea there were so many options and variables to consider!   I think I'm more hesitant to do anything now till I no exactly what I want.
The end result I guesss is that I need a reliable street oriented motor, hopefully around 550+ torque.  I would like to have real strong performance but at the same time real driveability.  How much power would you need to have the car run say 12.5 in a 1/4?  What engine combo would be a good starting point?  And is 9K a pipe dream for that kind of performance?  Thanks for your thoughts.

Without knowing your mechanical abilities and the capabilities of your local machine shop it's really hard to judge. If you have a good local machine shop I would buy the stroker kit from mancini, I think it costs about $2k and includes Diamond pistons and other good stuff. Then I would take that to the machine shop and have them build the short block for you. You'll probably be into the short block for $4k at this point. Then you could buy some Edelbrock 84cc heads, have the machine shop check them and bolt them on, Now you're at $6k. Then you'll need stuff like rocker gear, cam and kit and an intake and ignition. You should have a real good running engine for $8k with quality parts.

Sheldon

[elacruze]

The least expensive way to get a good motor is; Keep your ear to the ground.

I bought a low-mileage, test-driven, awesome 505" Edelbrock-headed RB minus intake exhaust and ignition for $3500.

Just have to be in the right place at the right time.

My recommendation for your first engine rebuild, get a 350 Chevy. The parts are so cheap they're nearly free, and you won't have much in it if you learn something the hard way. Don't get wrapped up in making your first rebuild a $7500 project.

Ask me how I know...

[451-74Charger]

My intention is to self-build a 8000 RPM European style screamer for under 5K
My dad used to work for an engineering shop that worked to microns rather than thou's. so i got a lot of info and a few good tools too.

the way I plan,
Use the 73 400 Block, the 440 forged crank, ofset ground and using Chebby H-beam rods
The pistons I may import from overseas as I have a good supplier back in Blighty.
The bearings and gaskets will ALL be SKF (they supplied OEM). and as I have a good supply from them, I can spec EXACTLY what I want.
I am going to retain the 452 heads (i have 3 sets) and have them ported and flow checked. (not using the pour sand  in the intake like some Honda driver may try..lol)
All other parts will be custom machined at cost thanks to various contacts.

[SeattleCharger]

 its mostly the parts that costs, the labor to do a short block isn't that much of the price, considering all the dough you are investing on expensive parts, and the hassle of assembling it all into your car, only to find out later you did some minor thing wrong, blowing the engine, removing it, starting over almost,  
 have a machine shop do the labor,  your chance to save some money might be on getting some parts used, such as heads, intake,
 murphy's law:   If you do everything right the first time, you did something wrong.

  the first time you try something, a lot of times it take twice as long and something isn't as perfect as you could have made it,   learning curve.

[super_dave]

Well, as of today I now have a starting point.  Just bought a 69 440 block only, been talking about it with a guy at a local machine shop he had mentioned to me, so he is getting it in and will magnaflux (?) it to make sure it's all good.  It's never been bored out or anything so he felt it was a good starting point.  So all I have is a block, now I need a shopping list.  Problem is I can't make a shopping list till I know what I want to build....LOL. 

[super_dave]

Now I just came across this on a local classified.   Is this any good?


"Just a couple gentle miles on this Mopar 440 Six Pack/Six Barrel intake.
This one has both the "Edelbrock" and the Chrysler P/N cast into it.
Ready to bolt on and go!!!
Perfect for your Road Runner, Super Bee, Charger, GTX, Cuda or Challenger."
$450.00

And lastly

"MOPAR Big Block parts – all BRAND NEW -  
MP  Oil pump/dist. drive (long) P3412064 - $75.
MP  440 pushrods for solid lifters/adj. rockers P4529560 - $115.
MP Valve springs P2806077 - $150.
MP  440 M1 single plane intake P4529463 - $240.
MP Head bolt package P4120472 - $65.
MP 3/8" Hardened washers P4120456 - $15.
Trick Titanium chromoly valve spring retainers $50.
All prices are FIRM – you save the exchange and taxes.
I am not a dealer – just changed my plans !

Should I be thinking about buying any of this stuff?  Decent deals?


A six pack could be sweet.

[firefighter3931]

The Mancini 493 kit is an awesome deal....$1450 for the rotating assembly with those quality parts is 

Throw on a set of e-heads and nice cam and you're making great power. 



Ron

[super_dave]

Thanks for the info guys, will be deciding what to do over next few days.

[firefighter3931]

Dave, if you go with the Mancini stroker kit....make sure to order the dished pistons. This way it will run on pump gas. 



Ron

[super_dave]

Thanks Ron, I wasn't sure what the differences were.  I came across this other thread that really  looked like the way to go.  I see you were very involved with that also, so my confidence is high this will work out. 

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,43911.msg482065.html#msg482065


Dave

[chargercrazy]

Ron, do you know the compression ratio of the Mancini 493 stroker kit with the dished pistons?

[firefighter3931]

Ron, do you know the compression ratio of the Mancini 493 stroker kit with the dished pistons?

Diamond has an off the shelf piston with a 13cc dish which will put you in the 10.5:1 range with an 84cc chamber and .040 head gasket. Perfect for pump gas. 

I have a set of those pistons and i'm assuming this is what Mancini is offering with their kit. Maybe worth a call to verify the volume to make sure.