Now for something completely different - experience a WWII POW camp.

[A34]

Every wonder what it was like in a WWII German POW camp?

Here's your chance to experience it first hand on site in Poland.

Check this site out:

http://www.powescapes.com/home/

Got this info from this site;

http://www.greatestgenerationsociety.com

Crazy stuff. I'm huge fan of WWII history and would love to try it. I wonder if I could be Col Hogan? Where's my Helga??

[Todd Wilson]

Might be interesting.   The greatest generation web site looks cool! I have signed up and waiting for approval. I have been researching my Grandpa's WWII  military history. I hope maybe that web site will help me more with stuff.


Todd

[RD]

kinda iffy on this whole concept.  some things i do not think should be glorified. I am just somewhat cautious at how this experience may desensitize the overall negativity that the Nazi regime implemented.

I would just rather them develop something other than a Nazi controlled concentration camp to bring about a world war II experience to be honest.  Cannot wait for the Israel government to hear about this one.

[A34]

kinda iffy on this whole concept.  some things i do not think should be glorified. I am just somewhat cautious at how this experience may desensitize the overall negativity that the Nazi regime implemented.

I would just rather them develop something other than a Nazi controlled concentration camp to bring about a world war II experience to be honest.  Cannot wait for the Israel government to hear about this one.

They do this in Poland, so I doubt the Israeli's have much pull there. I do understand where you're coming from. I read at one of the holocaust museums they put you in a box car, lights out and hot for one minute to get just a touch of the experience of being transported to a camp. I read it was a very unnerving experience, even for one minute. Kinda like doing the Richard Petty driving experience. You only get a taste of what it's like. Maybe instead of desensitizing someone, it brings home the horror even more? Making them acutely aware of the evil that was perpetrated.

There is also a group that recreates a day in the life of a 8th AF bomber crew. You live the life of a crew, including making a bombing run in either a B-17 or B-25, don't remember which one. I believe I read it was a 3 day event for around $2500.

[Todd Wilson]

kinda iffy on this whole concept.  some things i do not think should be glorified. I am just somewhat cautious at how this experience may desensitize the overall negativity that the Nazi regime implemented.

I would just rather them develop something other than a Nazi controlled concentration camp to bring about a world war II experience to be honest.  Cannot wait for the Israel government to hear about this one.

They do this in Poland, so I doubt the Israeli's have much pull there. I do understand where you're coming from. I read at one of the holocaust museums they put you in a box car, lights out and hot for one minute to get just a touch of the experience of being transported to a camp. I read it was a very unnerving experience, even for one minute. Kinda like doing the Richard Petty driving experience. You only get a taste of what it's like. Maybe instead of desensitizing someone, it brings home the horror even more? Making them acutely aware of the evil that was perpetrated.

There is also a group that recreates a day in the life of a 8th AF bomber crew. You live the life of a crew, including making a bombing run in either a B-17 or B-25, don't remember which one. I believe I read it was a 3 day event for around $2500.

The entire WWII history is fading away. All the people that did what they could do are almost gone. Todays society doesnt give WWII one thought or even know how important it was. They jsut think we killed lots of poor people and nuked poor Japan. They dont even realize the sacrifice and work the regular people in this country did during that time. Rationing everything and working at tough jobs to build things. This stuff thats out there now will at least remind people.


Todd

[A34]

Good point.

[RD]

i see your point todd, i just think there is a better way of teaching / reminding people than what this experience has to offer.

[moparguy01]

I have to agree with Todd on that. Those of us that do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it. I surely do not want to see this particular piece of history repeated. That is why I think it is important to have things like the Halocaust museum, and this particular thing I can understand RD's stand on this as well.

I went to the Halocaust museum in Washington, DC. and that is where they have that boxcar experience. You had to go into it to go through to the other side. I definately did not enjoy the experience, but it did drive home the point of how bad it would have been. Shortly after there was a room full of shoes taken, both sides of the path were filled with shoes, going to the sides about 10 feet, and down the room which I would say was around 40-50 feet in length. I knew that was just a small portion of the shoes from people that were in those camps, but it made me realize just how many people we are talking about. Just seeing a number is one thing, but that literally made me sick to my stomach. That is just 2 of the things I saw that I will never forget.

[Arthu®]

If this is just about remembering WWII and the horrible things that happened during the occupation of Europe than I feel that Poland is not the place for this "theme park". In every day life the war is still very visible here, be it the remains of the concentration camps, the infrastructure that the Germans left behind, the ruin of the bank that was used by the resistance in Warsaw, etc, etc. The Poles have suffered a lot during WWII and personally the war is graphic enough in the 100's of museums here and it doesn't really need this "theme park". If you would pay to get all the way over here I suggest going to some of the concentration camps, the ghetto's and some of the museums. But that is just my 2 cents.

Arthur

[BrianShaughnessy]

   Not really thinking this is a great idea... and the real thing sure wasn't Hogan's Heroes.

   My late father was never captured so he was never in a POW camp but he was in the middle of the Battle of the Bulge but I never got much out of him except for a few stories that he might repeat after an occassional night of drinking.   I didn't hear anything that sounded like a good time.

   He, like most of the greatest generation didn't say much about it and even if pressed, didn't really want to. 

[CB]

http://www.breendonk.be/index.html
http://www.breendonk.be/EN/index.html

this camp is a 15' drive from my home , a visit that won't let you untouched.
I am with Arthur, no need for a 'theme park'

[Todd Wilson]

If this is just about remembering WWII and the horrible things that happened during the occupation of Europe than I feel that Poland is not the place for this "theme park". In every day life the war is still very visible here, be it the remains of the concentration camps, the infrastructure that the Germans left behind, the ruin of the bank that was used by the resistance in Warsaw, etc, etc. The Poles have suffered a lot during WWII and personally the war is graphic enough in the 100's of museums here and it doesn't really need this "theme park". If you would pay to get all the way over here I suggest going to some of the concentration camps, the ghetto's and some of the museums. But that is just my 2 cents.

Arthur

I agree it doesnt need to be a theme park. And I bet when it comes right down to it there wont be many people participate in this experience.   Sad thing is you live over there and see reminders everyday of the war. People over here in the USA that are maybe 30 or less probably dont know a thing about WWII. They dont give WWII one thought while you are still seeing things over there everyday.


Todd

[A34]

Huge difference fellas between a Concentration camp and a POW camp. But, I see your point.

I don't know the cost, but I'm guessing it's quite expensive. Just transportation to Poland and back and everything associated with it isn't cheap, at least from the USA. As such, I don't think this qualify's as a "theme" park because I don't think the masses will be attending. I'm sure it's for folks with lots of discretionary income. You know the Barrett-Jackson purchased multiple Hemi car owner types. I'm not saying this makes it okay, but I am saying that due to the exclusive nature of this place, I doubt they are doing massive advertising to the public to glorify the experience.  I doubt the intent of this is to glorify what happened either.  In my opinion this is living history taken to another level. Would you say those that dress up as German soldiers and do living history events at Bastogne (or anywhere else) are glorifying the Third Reich?  What about the guys that do American Revolutionary War British soldiers? Are they glorifying the British Empire? Or are they bringing history alive, to educate people and maybe make it more interesting so they will learn more and not repeat it as someone stated above?

If people choose to do this of their own free will, and it hurts no one, and the company that runs it hurts no one, why shouldn't they be allowed to do it?  If it isn't profitable, they will fail. Isn't this freedom, whether we like it or not, what the Allies fought for in WWII? What about the Polish resistance to the Soviets, they fought for freedom too.  I'm just throwing out questions for thought here fellas.  Everyone has made valid points above, and I'm not picking on anyone. It's a difficult issue to draw the line at.

My Brother-in-law's Dad wrote a book on his experience as a POW. Luck of the Draw – Reflections of the Air War in Europe by Frank D. Murphy. He lays things out pretty vividly. It's a good book if you're interested in the story of a college kid's call to arms, aerial combat, capture, working on "The Great Escape" and final liberation. Having served in the military, I too, know a thing or two about tyrants and the pain they bring. Never would I seek to have it glorified. To me personally, from what I read on their website, if I had the cash, I'd probably do it. I guess I'm one of those adventure crazed nutjob's that would have signed up to take on Yul Brynner in Westworld given the opportunity.

[Arthu®]

Huge difference fellas between a Concentration camp and a POW camp. But, I see your point.

I don't know the cost, but I'm guessing it's quite expensive. Just transportation to Poland and back and everything associated with it isn't cheap, at least from the USA. As such, I don't think this qualify's as a "theme" park because I don't think the masses will be attending. I'm sure it's for folks with lots of discretionary income. You know the Barrett-Jackson purchased multiple Hemi car owner types. I'm not saying this makes it okay, but I am saying that due to the exclusive nature of this place, I doubt they are doing massive advertising to the public to glorify the experience.  I doubt the intent of this is to glorify what happened either.  In my opinion this is living history taken to another level. Would you say those that dress up as German soldiers and do living history events at Bastogne (or anywhere else) are glorifying the Third Reich?  What about the guys that do American Revolutionary War British soldiers? Are they glorifying the British Empire? Or are they bringing history alive, to educate people and maybe make it more interesting so they will learn more and not repeat it as someone stated above?

If people choose to do this of their own free will, and it hurts no one, and the company that runs it hurts no one, why shouldn't they be allowed to do it?  If it isn't profitable, they will fail. Isn't this freedom, whether we like it or not, what the Allies fought for in WWII? What about the Polish resistance to the Soviets, they fought for freedom too.  I'm just throwing out questions for thought here fellas.  Everyone has made valid points above, and I'm not picking on anyone. It's a difficult issue to draw the line at.

My Brother-in-law's Dad wrote a book on his experience as a POW. Luck of the Draw – Reflections of the Air War in Europe by Frank D. Murphy. He lays things out pretty vividly. It's a good book if you're interested in the story of a college kid's call to arms, aerial combat, capture, working on "The Great Escape" and final liberation. Having served in the military, I too, know a thing or two about tyrants and the pain they bring. Never would I seek to have it glorified. To me personally, from what I read on their website, if I had the cash, I'd probably do it. I guess I'm one of those adventure crazed nutjob's that would have signed up to take on Yul Brynner in Westworld given the opportunity.

The random house dictionary states that a theme park is: "an amusement park in which landscaping, buildings, and attractions are based on one or more specific themes, as jungle wildlife, fairy tales, or the Old West." and to me that's exactly what it is. From what I gather from the website it's not an historic site it's just replica of what it could have been like and it's purely for amusement with an educational touch (although I doubt that those who can afford it really will learn much new from it (at $3500 without the plane fare it's not really for the under educated).

I personally never was a big fan of the imitation of the battles either, even though it might not have the intention to glorify the war it really doesn't give an accurate picture either. I can't say this personally because I have never experienced war (and I'm thankful for that) but I have seen the reenactments and personally they didn't look all that realistic. Instead of having a couple of grown man drive around in their historic vehicles and running around with antique weapons I would much rather see the money invested in education on the actual events. Put it in historic databases and give them money to increase their collections. There is still stuff from the war scattered around in people's attics and basements that could serve a very good educational purpose.

It's just a personal opinion, any type of reenactment to me will not do the severity justice or even create a minor feeling of what it would have been really like. It's not about the guards yelling to you in German it's about the constant fear of not knowing what's going to come and how realistic it might be you will always know that nothing is going to happen, so in my opinion there are more honorable things that you can do to create this survival theme thing.

I don't think anyone in this thread mentioned that it should be forbidden what they are doing. It's their right to do whatever they want with their (I will still call it) "theme park" and I will not loose a night sleep over it, if it is the most ethical and if it really adds something to this world, I just doubt that. And I know you mean that the Polish resistance fought the communist regime in place at that point in time, not really the Soviets (it was never part of the Soviet Union) as a guest in this country at this point I time I felt the need to point that out. There is a difference.

And Todd maybe it's something that could be done in the U.S., as I said before it's not very logical that the people that know absolutely nothing about WWII or have ever given it a thought will be the ones taking this trip. You would have to make it more accessible to a public that would need this kind of (I will still call it) entertainment in order to get interested in WWII and that public is most definitely not in Eastern Europe and not really even in Western Europe. Although we could use more museums about WWII in Africa and Asia because here that it's hugely overshadowed by the events in Europe, even to an extend that a lot of people don't know what really happened over there.

I am probably taking all of this too serious it's just that since I have came here and actually seen some of the sites and the history of this region I just think it's not very ethical to make it into something for amusement. The countries in this region (and Poland specifically) have fought with someone to protect their territories for centuries and after WWI Poland was for the first time really a country again in the form that we know it now and after WWII they became communistic with very harsh consequences for the people, because that is something we don't know a lot about in at least Western Europe about what really happened here. One of the most interesting places I visited in the region was the former KGB headquarters in Vilnius, Lithuania where they had left everything exactly like they left it and that place just creeped the shit of me. Something tells me that you will confess if they put you bare footed in a cell filled with water to your knees in freezing weather... I don't feel the need to experience that for a couple of hours to imagine it...

Arthur

[89MOPAR]

  The fellows riding in their restored vehicles and old weapons are keeping the history alive . Most people would be more intrigued to see a Mercedes Half-Track staff car,or a  Russian T-34 tank than some old uniform or military paperwork.

  There is a show called "Tank Overhaul" which was on History or Military channel where the fellows restore antique tanks. The research, complexity of systems, and brute size of the paarts makes restoring an old Dodge look like a wallk in the park.  They pulled one German Panther tank out of a polish river where it had sat submerged for 30 years !

  An Excellent movie about WWII , dealing with Warsaw/ Poland / German Occupation / jewish resistance is "The Piano".  The destruction of Warsaw as shown in stages from the initial invation + occupation, to the worse still ,bombing and occupation by  the Soviets is visually riveting.  The Sad and discouraging end for the helpfull German Officer protagonist is also something you don't expect.

  Literally Millions of Germans and Prussians [ east germans ] were killed + or sent to Soviet concnetration camps [ never to return] when the Russians invaded. Something that is glossed over in the history books....

  My American GI grandfather married a german "war bride" and brought her back to the USA.  So i cannot say i wish the war never happened, or I wouldn'd be here....

[A34]

Good points fellas !

[TheGhost]

The movie is actually called "The Pianist", and it's a damn good movie.  They don't gloss over very much at all.  Based on a true story, I believe?

[Arthu®]

You're correct it's based on a true story. Here's the rest of the story on the German officer, which I found the most fascinating part of the movie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilm_Hosenfeld

Arthur

[89MOPAR]

  Nice info Aurthur !

Here's another war film , which poses a lot of moral questions, and is really well filmed.  If you are a WWII buff, it's a must see!
   "Castle Keep "  with Burt Lancaster and Peter Falk, among others.

http://www.amazon.com/Castle-Keep-Widescreen-Burt-Lancaster/dp/B00008EYDQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1261689742&sr=1-1