What torque converter to wake up my new 69 Runner, with 440 and 3.91 gears?

[1Bad70Charger]

Hi there,

I am very happy to be back into the classic muscle car Mopar scene and just picked up a pretty sweet looking ralleye green 69 Roadrunner, with black steel rims and black fiberglass lift off 6-pack hood (unfortuantey no 6 pack carb set-up).

My Roadrunner is running essentially a stock 1970 440 engine, built to stock specs., but running a slightly hotter cam than stock (possibly a Purple 509 cam but not certain if its a 509 or not but was told it was but have no documentation on the cam but its not stock, at least slightly hotter).
Engine is also running Hedman Headers, 800 Carb, and some type of high performance dual plane intake manifold (but nothing fancy).

Car has a stock torque flight 727 with 3.91 gears in a 8 3/4 rear end and runs pretty good as she sits, but I know a nice torque converter for street action will really wake her up coming out of the hole, etc.

What torque converter (specific brand and stall and best place to buy it) would you guys recommend for the street, that will really wake her up based upon the combo and gears described above, and the car will be driven on the street full time as a street car, but I have high tolerances for looser converters and running a 3000 stall for me is no problem. Car does have a tranny cooler installed on it but nothing fancy and not realy big.  Also, does it make sense from a performance view to throw in a shift kit if I put in a converter in my stock 727?

Also, since we are on the topic of performance, what else would really wake up the car without breaking the bank?  I was thinking throwing on some alum. edelbrook performer heads and how much more HP do you think that would give me as the heads I am ruuning are stock 440 heads (and nothing that special in my opinion).

Thanks in advance and if you want to see pics of the car feel free to check out this link as she is a looker, and the least picture link is actually a video with the car idling and then being revved up a bit.


http://www.lbfun.com/warehouse/misc/69roadrunner/


I am REALLY glad to be back into the classic Mopar muscle car family again, and this car has always being my favorite body style and this one is a keeper for me!  

[mopar_nut_440_6]

Welcome back to the scene!

In my opinion sort out what you are doing with the engine prior to buying your converter. If you swap heads you may also want to get rid of the old school 509 cam. There are much better options out there now which improve vacuum and performance. Don't get me wrong I have two 440's with 509 cams and have run them for years but...

So, regardless of what you decide you will want to install a shift kit for sure. I would recommend a stage 2 shift kit for street/strip use.

If you keep the 509 I would recommend at least a 2800-3200 stall. I am by know means no expert but have run the 509 for years on the street and strip and this seems to work.

Cheers,

James

[1Bad70Charger]

Thanks James and certainly good advice.   I am a on a tight budget and wouldn't  mind throwing in a nice street/strip cam to really up the the 440 cid, and call it day for now. If i kept the heads stock and just did a cam, new valve springs, converter, shift kit, what cam would work well for my set-up that will really wake her up and still be street friendly?      The heads are expensive and I am thinking I can hold off on the heads until I do a 500 stroker in a year or two.

Probably going to step things up in a year or two and make her a 500 cid stroker, and is there a cam that would work well with both my stock 440 and a 500 cid stroker in the future?

[mopar_nut_440_6]

There are many experts on this site who can help you select a cam. I am old school and will also be asking for the same advice. Ron (firefighter3931) can help you out with a new cam selection and I am sure he will chime in soon.

If it was me, this is what I would do. Leave the engine alone as I am quite certain you will not be able to pick a cam which will work for the current engine and the stroker. If you just want to perk up the performance for the time being then build a good automatic which will live behind the stroker you plan on building and select a convertor which will work for the current engine and the stroker. Again, I am no expert as I have run stick cars for years, but can only offer any advice I have from my real world experience when I ran automatics.

I have an old school stroker with a 509 which puts 500 HP to the ground and runs a 3800 stall. With the additional torque of the stroker it actually stalls around 3200. Perhaps there is a happy medium here but you will want to decide exactly what you want to build prior to any decision. I do not like to waste money and I am sure you do not either is take your time, do your research and make the right decision. There is a sticky on proven engine combos which will help you decide on a engine combination you may want to run. If something there looks promising then you can decide what would meet all of your needs.

I am not sure I have helped but hopefully I can help you save some cash!

Cheers,

[1Bad70Charger]

James,

That is certainly good advice as I have built up for performance many cars, mostly Chevys, and have learned that you want to build them up based upon where you are going with the future, and you certainy don't want to pay for things twice, like cams, converters,  gears, heads, etc., etc.

I need to decide if I am going to just build up my 440 with new heads, cam and intake, or build a 500+ stroker making power levels at least where you are at , 500 to wheels is a some GREAT POWER and should be right around 600 at the flywheel.

For my first season I may just throw in a converter to wake the car up off the line and a shift kit and just enjoy the car.

I do intend on driving it all over about 2000 miles a year.  

[Ghoste]

Esepcially converters, since they really seem to perform in a camshaft dependent way.

[1Bad70Charger]

I am leaning towards just leaving the car the way it is the first season with its 509 purple cam and just driving it all over.

Getting back to my original question if that is what I do and just wanted to throw in a converter matched to the 509 purple cam and my 3.91 gears, what torque converter (Brand and stall) do you guys recommend for the street, that will WAKE HER UP but still be street friendly and what brand and type of shift kit?

Thanks!  

[Ghoste]

TransGo TF2 for the transmission and call one of the converter mfg's like Coan or Dynamic or A&A with your specs and goals and they'll hook you up.

[1Bad70Charger]

Thanks for your feedback Ghoste.  Where does one get that shift kit from, do you have a weblink or number? 

[Ghoste]

Should be able to get them from just about any speed shop.

http://www.transgo.com/sk_dodge.php

http://www.performancetransparts.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=6

http://www.txchange.com/tgp.htm#TFOD/518

[1Bad70Charger]

Thanks Ghoste, I appreciate it! 

[green69rt]

OK, I like this question because my first charger had a similar setup.  If I had it to do over again I'd add things in different order.  

First - deep sump transmission pan and extended pickup (adds cooling to the trans and 4 extra quarts of fluid to preserve the trans.)
second - transmission cooler (not the one inside the radiator.) These two things prepare you for the extra heat that a high stall speed torque converter generates.
third - shift kit, I personally like the full manual valve body.  Be aware that it reverses the shift pattern. (Edit, just reread that you already have a shift kit and cooler.)
fourth - now you are ready for the torque converter.
fifth - modern cam ( go roller if possible, you'll be glad in the long run.)

After these thing are done, and they are all fairly small cost items, then think about better heads, maybe a better ignition, don't forget the timing chain (a double roller really makes things more precise.)

[1Bad70Charger]

Thanks for you insight Green69RT, seems like a solid game plan! 

Anybody,

What's the perfect modern hydraulic street/strip cam that will wake up the beast resting inside my freshly built 440 motor (don't want to go solid roller on a street car), but I certainly want at least a 112 LSA (need a choppy idle); but more importantly a nice street friendly, yet agressive street cam, that will make great power throughout the rpm band.

Keep in mind I will be keepin my 3.91 gears in place and will be stalling her up once the cam is selected (or if I decide to stick with my boring purple 509 cam).

Keep in mind that this cam will eventually be matched also to alum. RPM Edelbrock heads, as that is where I will be going with this in the future! 

Also, will the car be faster in the 1/4 mile the way it sits right now with a cam and converter swap, or by swapping the heads and doing a converter (and keeping the current 509 purple camshaft)?

[firefighter3931]

A good converter choice would be the Dynamic 10in street/strip converter. Fwiw, your engine sounds too mellow to have the 509 cam....more than likely you have the 284/484 or something similar.


Ron

[1Bad70Charger]

A good converter choice would be the Dynamic 10in street/strip converter. Fwiw, your engine sounds too mellow to have the 509 cam....more than likely you have the 284/484 or something similar.


Ron

It does sound fairly mellow and the cam is probalby only slightly above stock specs. even though the guy was told 509 and your probably right! 

What stall Dynaminc converveter would you recommend for my current set-up (3000)?

[Ghoste]

It will be around 3000 with that converter but remember that stall speed is also a function of torque so the rest of your combo will affect it.

[firefighter3931]

A good converter choice would be the Dynamic 10in street/strip converter. Fwiw, your engine sounds too mellow to have the 509 cam....more than likely you have the 284/484 or something similar.


Ron

It does sound fairly mellow and the cam is probalby only slightly above stock specs. even though the guy was told 509 and your probably right! 

What stall Dynaminc converveter would you recommend for my current set-up (3000)?

I wouldn't be too disappointed....the 509 isn't much of a street cam. Definately not a fan of those archaic grinds ! 

See my post above ; Dynamic 10in should do the job ! 



Ron

[1Bad70Charger]

A good converter choice would be the Dynamic 10in street/strip converter. Fwiw, your engine sounds too mellow to have the 509 cam....more than likely you have the 284/484 or something similar.


Ron

Ron,

I was told the cam in there is only a step up or two from stock specs so what would be the specs. on the cam you believe I have at 0.050, and what lope seperation does that sound to you?

[firefighter3931]

A good converter choice would be the Dynamic 10in street/strip converter. Fwiw, your engine sounds too mellow to have the 509 cam....more than likely you have the 284/484 or something similar.


Ron

Ron,

I was told the cam in there is only a step up or two from stock specs so what would be the specs. on the cam you believe I have at 0.050, and what lope seperation does that sound to you?

It sounds mild.....probably short duration and wide lobes (110+). I'm getting the feeling you want something more agressive. 



Ron

[1Bad70Charger]

A good converter choice would be the Dynamic 10in street/strip converter. Fwiw, your engine sounds too mellow to have the 509 cam....more than likely you have the 284/484 or something similar.


Ron

Ron,

I was told the cam in there is only a step up or two from stock specs so what would be the specs. on the cam you believe I have at 0.050, and what lope seperation does that sound to you?

It sounds mild.....probably short duration and wide lobes (110+). I'm getting the feeling you want something more agressive. 



Ron

Ron,

How could you tell I am looking for something more aggressive?   

[1Bad70Charger]

A good converter choice would be the Dynamic 10in street/strip converter. Fwiw, your engine sounds too mellow to have the 509 cam....more than likely you have the 284/484 or something similar.


Ron

It does sound fairly mellow and the cam is probalby only slightly above stock specs. even though the guy was told 509 and your probably right!  

What stall Dynaminc converveter would you recommend for my current set-up (3000)?

I wouldn't be too disappointed....the 509 isn't much of a street cam. Definately not a fan of those archaic grinds !  

See my post above ; Dynamic 10in should do the job !  

Ron

Ron,

Do you recommend a transgo shift kit along with the Dynamic 10 inch converter on a street car or no shift kit and what can I expect to pay for the Dynamic 10 inch converter as there website does not advertise any prices?  

[firefighter3931]

The transgo tf-2 kit is excellent. 

Check with Dynamic on the 10in converter....should be in the $450 range. 



Ron

[greenpigs]

I see you like links so: http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/10streetcon7.html

They will have most of what you will ever want and depending on were you live are cheaper than Summits\Jegs.  Neither of them carry Dynamic converters. Ron recommended the same converter for me also and if it hasn't been mentioned a deep pan and auxiliary cooler are a must.

[1Bad70Charger]

Thanks Greenpig, I appreciate it!  

[73TXRallye440]

First - deep sump transmission pan and extended pickup (adds cooling to the trans and 4 extra quarts of fluid to preserve the trans.)

how much is a deep sump transmission pan and extended pickup? Got a link to those so I can order online?

[firefighter3931]

First - deep sump transmission pan and extended pickup (adds cooling to the trans and 4 extra quarts of fluid to preserve the trans.)

how much is a deep sump transmission pan and extended pickup? Got a link to those so I can order online?

Several different brands of deep pans are available. I believe Summit sells a house brand deep cast aluminum pan for ~ $100 or so. 


Ron

[Silver R/T]

I bought my shift kit from this guy
http://myworld.ebay.com/oregonperformancetransmission&ssPageName=STRK:MEFSX:SELLERID
It came quick and price was pretty good too

[c00nhunterjoe]

def not a 509, sounds like the 270/474. my buddy ran the same cam and his sounded exactly like yours does. not a bad cam, good street temperment, a 2500 stall would be great for that cam along with a nice dual plane intake

[1Bad70Charger]

def not a 509, sounds like the 270/474. my buddy ran the same cam and his sounded exactly like yours does. not a bad cam, good street temperment, a 2500 stall would be great for that cam along with a nice dual plane intake

Been missing for awhile here and thanks for your feedback.   Been out enjoying my 69 road runner and have taken it to several cruise nights where it has made a big splash, with its ralleye green paint (very straight body and nice paint job) and black steel wheels and black 6 pack fiberglass hood.

Per Ron's suggestion I have my Proform 750 double pumper carb on and dual plane Holley Street Dominator, and the car is running decent but DESPERATELY needs a converter as she is sluggish off the line, and Ron suggested the carb and intake to work in conjuction with the Dynamic 9.5 inch street/strip converter (should stall up to around 3500) and trans go shift kit that will be going in the car in the next several weeks after I free up some $. That is REALLY going to wake up my B-Body and that is what she REALLY needs right now more than anything.  

Stay tuned!

[BSB67]

Very nice looking car.

[1Bad70Charger]

Thanks BSB now I only need her to get to run as fast as your 66/67 Charger Fastback (very impressive)! 

[motoreese]

Hello gentlemen and ladie s,
I too am new to the muscle car scene. I bought my dream car last October after 35 years of dreaming. 69 Dodge Charger, I seapped the 383 out with a 440 I built myself. My first build and I'm quite proud of it. Bore out .040 over? Mild cam I think (came with motor so it could be stock) heads were triple cut, flat top aluminum Pistons, high rise Edlebrock performance intake manifold (a mopar guru said its a dual plain intake. Holley 750cfm, hooker headers, A727 trany with 3:23 gears in a posi trac 489 case. I realize the gears are quite high but I was hoping she would be able to break the tires loose since I just hit the 500 mile break in I desided to try a power brake and failed but I don't think I gave enough gas as my paranoid a$$ is afraid to break something.
I was chatting with a mopar man from this site but I didn't want to be a neucence...
I know the timing is of as it's hard to start when warm ( she cranks a lot before she starts. I'm picking up an advanced timing light today from harbor freight.
Does anyone know what the stock torque converter release RPM is?

[John_Kunkel]

There are dozens of "stock" converters; if your '69 has an original 383HP converter it's one of the highest stall ever offered from the factory.

I wouldn't gauge your converter's performance from the results of a partial throttle burnout (or any burnout). 

[Challenger340]

Hello gentlemen and ladie s,
I too am new to the muscle car scene. I bought my dream car last October after 35 years of dreaming. 69 Dodge Charger, I seapped the 383 out with a 440 I built myself. My first build and I'm quite proud of it. Bore out .040 over? Mild cam I think (came with motor so it could be stock) heads were triple cut, flat top aluminum Pistons, high rise Edlebrock performance intake manifold (a mopar guru said its a dual plain intake. Holley 750cfm, hooker headers, A727 trany with 3:23 gears in a posi trac 489 case. I realize the gears are quite high but I was hoping she would be able to break the tires loose since I just hit the 500 mile break in I desided to try a power brake and failed but I don't think I gave enough gas as my paranoid a$$ is afraid to break something.
I was chatting with a mopar man from this site but I didn't want to be a neucence...
I know the timing is of as it's hard to start when warm ( she cranks a lot before she starts. I'm picking up an advanced timing light today from harbor freight.
Does anyone know what the stock torque converter release RPM is?

Off topic,
(but it does relate to available Torque down in low rpm's for pulling the Torque Convertor into stall)

Do you know what "brand" of .040" over Pistons were used in the rebuild ? or a Piston Part # ?
or better yet,
The "Compression Distance" of the .040" over Pistons used ?

also,
what year "stock" heads ?

I have to ask, as it may help others(and myself) in responses to your questions, in accurately assessing cylinder pressure, or "push" on the Crank.... as it relates to bottom end grunt available, for Timing/Tuning and Torque Converter function.

ALL 440 pistons are Flat Tops... just that some are notoriously very low in the Cylinder at TDC, which when used in conjunction with open chamber Cylinder Heads, and a composition style Head Gasket, can result in high 7's to 1 Compression Ratios, and inherently poor low rpm Torque.
NOT saying yours is....
just that it will be invaluable to know much of the above BEFORE proceeding, or receiving any Tuning advice ? ... so people know what they are dealing with/advising on ?