Just thinking out loud

[G-man]

Hi

I have seen so much stuff since a while ago, different kind of builds and different styles of car-setups... from pro-stock to pro-street to stock to pro-touring to Daytonas and superbirds

I have asked a milion questions pretty much and im almost clear on everything. Given the extensive information offered by the nice members here and cuda-challenger when I owned a challenger, I think I know what I want exactly.

From suspension styles, applications to steering styles and applications to wheel sizes and applications to... pretty much everything (like a little book inside my head).

I have always favoured the aggressive look of the 68 chargers and the big side wall tires that just make it look beef... true muscle.

I know I will never be at a race track to ever need 'handling' so I figured I would build a pro-street car just to make it a little better in a straight line considering thats pretty much all you can use on the street safely (not very smart trying to fly around corners on the street - hence race track for this)

Given the extensive question and answers I have received... I have seen/understood some things...

Someone has tested 2 cars, same gearbox, engine etc, One was setup to handle and one was setup as a dedicated dragcar. The dedicated drag car ran 90/10 shocks (bad for street) no front or rear sway bar (bad for street) etc.. the handling car ran 0.96 T-bars, 1.25 Sway bar so on. Both ran urethane bushings.

The dedicated drag car ran in at 3000lbs, while the handling car ran in at 3200lbs. (considering 100lbs = 0.1 of a second that should be by weight 0.2 slower + ofcourse then you have the fact each suspension works different)

Basicaly the dedicated drag car ran with 420hp, 12.2 down the quarter mile while the handling car ran 13.1 down the quarter. However on average the drag car only ran half a second quicker as its not consistent with all that suspension movement.

Half a second is it... now I have also understood that when you race at a drag strip... people search to gain 0.01 of a second wherever they can, and if that gets the win... its fast enough... so 1 second or even half a second becomes a big deal in that environment.

IF I ever went to a race course I know what Id do there...it would be the circuit not the quarter mile. Considering I probbably never will go there, then street is it... but that also means I cant make a dedicated drag car.

Since the dedicated drag car only ran 1 second faster at its best (half on average)... and considering the faster you go the harder it is to knock time off... I started to think... If I build this pro-street car with 600hp... 70/30 shocks so its streetable rather than 90/10, then added a front sway bar rather than no sway bar so its safe on the street as a 'cruising car' as that is its main purpose... that 1 sec at best half sec on average becomes a lot smaller. Also consider the fact that this drag car was 200lbs lighter... so if they weighed the same that difference would have been even less.

I also believe the reason old muscle cars need the light T-bars etc is to get weight transfer... because our old cars are nose heavy...so we need the front to lift to provide traction on the rear... if the car however is built with a 50-50 static weight then the weight transfer is not as neccessary which means you should be able to beef up the suspension.

Going along this train of thought... a dedicated handling car on the street vs a inbetween drag-street car... there wont be any real difference down a quarter... which then in turn means, however this car is built, to handle (pro-touring with a 50-50 static weight) or inbetween street-drag (70/30 shocks, 0.92 T-bars, 1 1/8th sway bar etc) either one will be, as far as street is concerned, as quick as eachother which then means there is no real reason to build this inbetween drag/street car since speed will be basicaly the same there.

Considering I never will go race track it means I can make the car feel good and tight for road (handling) or loose and bouncy (street-drag)... either way I do it... neither 1 will be any faster than the other... so why build a street-drag car when the handling car will be as quick considering AND offer handling potential?

Well - If i ever do go to the race track... I will not sit at a quarter mile... id want my car on the circuit where the fun lasts longer... from this point since both ways I build it will be street wise the same speed... then I may aswell make the car handle so that at least it handles on road, goes as fast as that inebtween drag/street car and at the same time if i ever go race track I got something I can use where I would go (circuit).

So my conclusion is after all these years is....

Build a real good handling 68 Charger, drop a 550ci hemi in the front with 700hp. That will be more than fast enough for a quarter irrelivant of suspension and yet it can handle its own on a circuit if I ever choose to go to the race track... and its road manners will be a lot better also providing a better cruising car as well as a 'safer' cruising car as there would be more control due to less suspension movement to throw you around the place.

So now... as much as I never cared for pro-touring type builds... after seeing so many and having understood certain things... I can totaly relate now to why people tend to go that way... the only thing I will do is still stick to the 15" wheels with nice wide tires... but make the suspension so good that It will handle as good as a lotus on those muscle looking wheels.

That would be cool, a nascar style 68 Charger. This is what I want to build!

If anyone has any youtube videos of members or even where I can download 68-70 chargers (not daytonas or the flat grilled 500's) in circuit racing, I would love to see it  . Ive seen somany challengers and cudas get all this 'handling' attention and video time whether members or etc racing at a circuit... time to make a Charger step up to the plate in handling and time to see some chargers mean serious business... post them up!

[elacruze]

 

I love roadracing and dragracing both, but my car is targeted towards neither. 99.99% of my miles will be on public roads. I want the car to make me smile everywhere I go, all the time.

[Brock Samson]

I don't know why you feel you need a 600 + horse powered HEMI... 
For either application,.. 
lot's of dependable power with a 500 + HP 440,.. unless you just want bragging rights...
Still then the car may prove a handfull and quite likely to get you into serious trouble.

[slamooo]

There was a 3rd generation set up to run at the Lemans Classic with a Hemi 
http://www.olympia-charger.com/  most of you have seen it before, it was made from a  Petty built NASCAR.

[LeadfootBob]

That would be cool, a nascar style 68 Charger. This is what I want to build!

*Koff*
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/featuredvehicles/b_body/mopp_0605_1968_dodge_charger/index.html

[G-man]

That would be cool, a nascar style 68 Charger. This is what I want to build!

*Koff*
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/featuredvehicles/b_body/mopp_0605_1968_dodge_charger/index.html

Thats the stuff that got me into this mess... including the 515GTB and then the Super Cuda and then... all the ideas changed and thinking started 

Id like to see one of these type of cars tested at a track to see how good they handle... not just big wheels big breaks and doesnt handle all 'that' great.

Theres videos of super cuda, XV001 challengers, more cudas, more challengers... I cant find any damn chargers tested and shown what they can do!

[WHITE AND RED 69]

I think the pure vision 68 charger is one of the best chargers out there. Does anyone know if there are any videos of it in action?

[Rolling_Thunder]

I was in a similar situation with my 68...     I wanted some decent drag strip times but also a very nice driving and trackable auto-cross car...        I do not have final results as of yet but when I do i'll be sure to post them up...     I am going with a 6.1 Hemi / 5-speed manual transmission / and a 3.55 sure grip differential...     all tied together they should work well together...     tubular upper control arms, body stiffening everywhere, and will have 14" brakes all around with Brembo calipers - also 18" wheels (if i can find any that fit)

All said and done I would like a car that could handle comparable to a modern luxury car (not sports car - I am realistic) and dip into the 12's at the drag strip...      If I can also get 20+ mpg on average I will be ecstatic.

[G-man]

I was in a similar situation with my 68...     I wanted some decent drag strip times but also a very nice driving and trackable auto-cross car...        I do not have final results as of yet but when I do i'll be sure to post them up...     I am going with a 6.1 Hemi / 5-speed manual transmission / and a 3.55 sure grip differential...     all tied together they should work well together...     tubular upper control arms, body stiffening everywhere, and will have 14" brakes all around with Brembo calipers - also 18" wheels (if i can find any that fit)

All said and done I would like a car that could handle comparable to a modern luxury car (not sports car - I am realistic) and dip into the 12's at the drag strip...      If I can also get 20+ mpg on average I will be ecstatic.

You must be thinking like me 

[NYCMille]

Maybe these will help you out as far as seeing what these cars can be made to do - these are some video's of my cars with me behind the wheel. Both pro-touring set-ups, both road raced, drag raced, auto-x, cross country rallied and daily driven... you name it, these cars were built to do it. The reason you never see any other high profile cars do anything is simple.... they don't. Hope this helps.

'68 Charger at Auto-X
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9xM-UM-vhw

'68 Charger in GA chasing Ferrari F430
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euOtG-pzB48

'68 Charger running at Moroso
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUP_SnDUki8

'68 Charger playing on the skid pad at Lime Rock
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAxBsFzTYfo

'69 Daytona at Auto-X
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O87UzO_y-_4

'69 Daytona running at Grattan Raceway being chased by SRT-8 Charger.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tENl9HI3r2Y&feature=related