About That '77....

[Ghoste]

I would worry more about getting it in there and then doing suspension and braking upgrades to deal with it.  The fundamental unibody design there is about the same as the earlier B-bodies so there is no reason to think you are going to "rip the car in half".  That said, subframe connectors are a good idea for all of us.

[Lizey]

I would worry more about getting it in there and then doing suspension and braking upgrades to deal with it.  The fundamental unibody design there is about the same as the earlier B-bodies so there is no reason to think you are going to "rip the car in half".  That said, subframe connectors are a good idea for all of us.

ok yeah i suppose that would be helpful I wont be driving the snot out of this car but Id like to know im not going to torque something if I decide to give it hell one day pulling out of school or something

[Ghoste]

Any healthy engine is going to cause pretty much any unibody car to flex in places we don't want it to under the right (wrong?) conditions.

[Lizey]

enough to damage it?

and to be honest to all of you a healthy 440 sounds better and better as time goes on...

[Ghoste]

If you turn the car over and look at the floors, you will see a pair of structural members going to either end of the car at the sides.  If you notice, they don't meet in the middle under the passenger compartment.  The same twisting effort that makes one side of the car lose traction easier than the other or makes the car want to go sideways or causes a need for heavier leaf springs on one side or the other or a need for the battery in the trunk located over one side of the axle is at work here.  Look at pictures of a lot of drag cars as they leave the line and you'll notice one side is coming up higher than the other.  This same twisting motion is going on through the entire car and that point in the middle where there are no structural longitudinal members is the easiest place for it to twist the car.  Eventually that twisting begins to take a "set" in the vehicle and handling deteriorates, cracks form the "C" pillar behind the rear side glass and so on.  It would take a pretty strong engine and a pretty flimsy car to literally rip it in half but yes, permanent damage will result over time.

[Lizey]

If you turn the car over and look at the floors, you will see a pair of structural members going to either end of the car at the sides.  If you notice, they don't meet in the middle under the passenger compartment.  The same twisting effort that makes one side of the car lose traction easier than the other or makes the car want to go sideways or causes a need for heavier leaf springs on one side or the other or a need for the battery in the trunk located over one side of the axle is at work here.  Look at pictures of a lot of drag cars as they leave the line and you'll notice one side is coming up higher than the other.  This same twisting motion is going on through the entire car and that point in the middle where there are no structural longitudinal members is the easiest place for it to twist the car.  Eventually that twisting begins to take a "set" in the vehicle and handling deteriorates, cracks form the "C" pillar behind the rear side glass and so on.  It would take a pretty strong engine and a pretty flimsy car to literally rip it in half but yes, permanent damage will result over time.

but for just street driving, im not going to be drag racing the thing, will that still damage it significantly?

[Ghoste]

It shouldn't, no.  Keep in mind that I'm giving you an opinion here without being 100% on the condition of your car and the exact layout of the reinforcing parts of the unibody subframe.  You are going that far though, spend the little bit of extra money, weld in a set of connectors and get peace of mind and better handling at the same time.

[Lizey]

It shouldn't, no.  Keep in mind that I'm giving you an opinion here without being 100% on the condition of your car and the exact layout of the reinforcing parts of the unibody subframe.  You are going that far though, spend the little bit of extra money, weld in a set of connectors and get peace of mind and better handling at the same time.

its a rust free California car and what would set of connectors run me?

[defiance]

They're probably not available for your car, (not sure on that), so you'd just get some square tubing (I think 3x3 is common) and weld it in.  Sometimes that requires cutting on the rear floorboards to fit and then welding it all back together tight..  So getting them is inexpensive, but getting them installed is a bit more inolved.  If you're not pretty good with a welder you'll have to have it done, and I really have no idea how much that would be...

[bordin34]

Magnum Force should have connectors for your car, but they are bolt on. You car is basically a 73/74 Charger with different body panels, the subframe and unibody should be almost identical. Check car domain somebody has a Hemi in a 73.
Hemidoug about that 440...

[Cooter]

Lizey, I guess if you've got the "balls" to go for it and have someone there that knows how things should be installed, that 426 Hemi isn't gonna "Rip the car" apart...It's "Only" making around 425-490 HP so a healthy 440 would do that much..The big thing is getting in good with your install guy/gal and get it in there....I would like to see when done...
You WILL have your work cut out for you though...I know EXACTLY what you are talking bout with a 460 in a Mustang, as I have one in a 1970 Maverick and THAT's a whole lot harder to install than a Mustang...

Good luck..

[bordin34]

I found the Hemi 73 Charger maybe you can ask this guy for help.
http://rides.hotrod.com/ride/1001676/73hemi/1973/dodge/charger/index.html

[squeakfinder]

 Get a Hemi or a 440 in there and you won't be able resist stomping on it.

I welded my subframe connector's in myself, but if you do go through with this and decide to have connectors put in you might talk with people who install exhaust systems for a living. Being that these guys are used to welding overhead.

 But as stated, get the engine in the car first. And then see what else needs to be done later.
If one side of the front of the car noticeably lifts higher than the other under hard acceleration. And your passenger door all of a sudden doesn't want to close properly you'll know something needs to be done to the car, or your driving habits.

[ACUDANUT]

 A guy named Lizzy ? Put the Hemi in a REAL muscle car. A 77 Charger is down right Ugly.

[no318]

I have a 440 that I put into a dodge magnum that has been there for years.  No subframe connectors.  No problems. 

[Khyron]

enough to damage it?

and to be honest to all of you a healthy 440 sounds better and better as time goes on...

see my other post..... You can get more power for a lot less money with a 440. Now don't get me wrong, a Hemi is a nice motor, if you want to fine tune it all the time. hemis need maintenance. Believe it or not I had a choice this go around on my motor.... and I picked the 440.....ish motor

[Ghoste]

But if you got the Hemi for free, then what?   

[Khyron]

Im gonna piss a lot of people off by saying this.... I would shelf it till it was worth a lot more, or sell it to finance a hell of a stroker kit / heads/ and ram air intake for my 440

and still have money left over

[mauve66]

has anybody seen or remember the 4th gen daytona winged chargers???

[Lizey]

A guy named Lizzy ?

pronounced: "Lie-Zee"

and i guess what it comes down to, me being a teenager with a minimal income, is im going to get it in there and ill see... if I notice that one sides lifting or whatever, ill get connectors and other stuff done as time goes on

that aside, other than new mounts what will it take to get this thing in there?

[Hemidoug]

Your biggest problem is exhaust and brakes...I don't believe 71-74 B body exhaust stuff will work. The brake booster needs to be offset to clear the valve covers. You will need a custom radiator. You will need to figure out the powersteering combo/brackets, ect. Then there is the wiring, upgraded fuel lines (yes, needed). May need a BB trans mount.......

I don't know what condition the motor is in, but if it was yanked out of a car and sat around for any length of time, I would budget in some freshening for the motor...

[RD]

Your biggest problem is exhaust and brakes...I don't believe 71-74 B body exhaust stuff will work. The brake booster needs to be offset to clear the valve covers. You will need a custom radiator. You will need to figure out the powersteering combo/brackets, ect. Then there is the wiring, upgraded fuel lines (yes, needed). May need a BB trans mount.......

I don't know what condition the motor is in, but if it was yanked out of a car and sat around for any length of time, I would budget in some freshening for the motor...

good points doug, but to make this somewhat of a reality check.. the stuff you mentioned is exactly the same stuff that any guy putting a big block motor where a small block motor was, would have to do too.

LI-Zee "the guy" sorry about that from earlier (thought it was lizzy too), it can be done.  Nothing in life worth fighting for is ever easy, but the end product is always well worth it.  If you do this, the knowledge and fun gained from it is irreplaceable.  Good luck either way.

[Daytona R/T SE]

A guy named Lizzy ?

other than new mounts what will it take to get this thing in there?

Roughly....$20,000.

[Hemidoug]

Your biggest problem is exhaust and brakes...I don't believe 71-74 B body exhaust stuff will work. The brake booster needs to be offset to clear the valve covers. You will need a custom radiator. You will need to figure out the powersteering combo/brackets, ect. Then there is the wiring, upgraded fuel lines (yes, needed). May need a BB trans mount.......

I don't know what condition the motor is in, but if it was yanked out of a car and sat around for any length of time, I would budget in some freshening for the motor...

good points doug, but to make this somewhat of a reality check.. the stuff you mentioned is exactly the same stuff that any guy putting a big block motor where a small block motor was, would have to do too.

LI-Zee "the guy" sorry about that from earlier (thought it was lizzy too), it can be done.  Nothing in life worth fighting for is ever easy, but the end product is always well worth it.  If you do this, the knowledge and fun gained from it is irreplaceable.  Good luck either way.

'Cept for the exhaust, brake booster/bracket, and custom mounts.......he did ask....

Don't forget all the nit pickey stuff that you run into when doing custom work....throttle cable too long/short, pulley miss matches, custom parts that are not custom enough to fit...wiring bugs, steering column issues, oil pan issues, hood clearance issues.......

Being different isn't easy...be prepaired for the long run....it is going to take some work but it is possible

[mauve66]

A guy named Lizzy ?

other than new mounts what will it take to get this thing in there?

? no way dude

Roughly....$20,000.