Aftermarket fuel injection

[Paul G]

Is anyone running fuel injection? Edelbrock makes a kit, I saw it on Mancini's website. Pro Flow also makes a kit. One of the mags did an article on the Pro Flo kit a while back. They gave it very good remarks.

My 72 is basically a street brawler. The 360 is very strong, but kind of finicky on the street. very touchy peddle, tip in kind of knocks you back in your seat. I love it!

My fuel pump is going south, being the cheap azz I am I would rather put the $100 toward a $3000 fuel injection set-up.

Tell me what you guys think.   

[Rolling_Thunder]

Edelbrock makes a the Pro-Flo kit...   

[Paul G]

Edelbrock makes a the Pro-Flo kit...   

Well, I guess that limits the choices.   

[Cooter]

I would think a SB would be kinda gravy as the junkyards are full of Fuel Inj. 318-360's...


A BB Chrysler might be another tail all together...I've got plans for a port F.I. 440 just haven't gotten it down enough in price for the average "Joe" to fool with just yet...Right now it's Looking like about the same Money as above...
I'd like to see a $1500.00 F.I. "kit" that you could do at home for the 383-440 guys...

[myk]

F.I. for one of these cars seems like a really cool idea, but I know the tuning and troubleshooting involved is way more than most can handle...

[Cooter]

F.I. for one of these cars seems like a really cool idea, but I know the tuning and troubleshooting involved is way more than most can handle...

Sh*t, from what I've been reading, so's the Carburetor...

[Ghoste]

From my experience, they always have been.  I realized a long long time ago that I was no carb expert and oddly enough, almost everyone I knew that was into cars claimed to be.  A true carb tuning wizard is a rare find indeed.

[Cooter]

Not Really, you just have to have ALOT of patience and today's "Car Guy" wants it yesterday, Perfect, To run like his 2009 Vehicle, Run in 10's 1/4 mile, while still gettin' 40 MPG, and wants all this for $50.00.....


People are WAY too Technology Dependent to where when it comes to ANYTHING old skool, they are of course,.... lost...I refuse to jump on the "gotta have the latest new thing out cause everybody else has it"
bandwagon...I'll stick with carb's until F.I. can compete with the price and simplicity of a carburetor....If more would read up and actually understand how a carb works, it's no different than F.I. and a lap top...With F.I. you just don't get dirty that's all...

[Ghoste]

Agreed.  But I'm still no carb expert.

[defiance]

Well, I've been working on mine for years - I'll let you know how it works when I get it working!

The EFI though, has really never been the problem.  I've never managed to tune the injection right, but that's mostly because there's always something else wrong  

I think it's almost there, though.  I had it running a month or so ago, until I pulled it out of the garage, then it died and I had to winch it back in.  Turns out it had sat so long waiting on my 2-year engine build (part-at-a-time as I could afford it) build, a bunch of rust had built up in the gas tank and lines, so it clogged everything from the filters to the injectors as soon as I 'stirred it up' by moving the car.  So now I'm working on replacing all that stuff.  woo.  
Just another in a long line of similar examples.  I think I may actually be getting there now though

Just as an idea of the cost and expertice, the edelbrock kit looks pretty good and looks like it should be easy to install.  You could alternatively go minimal cost by drilling and installing epoxy-in injector bungs in your existing intake manifold, put together your own megasquirt ecu and round up a bunch of OEM injectors, sensors, etc from different applications, and probably have it running reliably on EFI for under $800, but you'd better know what you're doing!  Probably a good middle ground would be a pre-assembled megasquirt, Edelbrock's victor intake & rails, and all the supporting hardware.  It would require a bit more planning and know-how than the edelbrock setup, but could probably be done for less than $1500. 

Or you could go all out, get a f.a.s.t. or the Megasquirt-3 that's set to release in the next month or two, install a crank wheel and sensor, and set it up to run distributorless with sequential injection and direct ignition from a coil pack!      I mean come on, you know you need individual-cylinder control of exact fuel pulsewidth and timing, right?

someday....... 

[Ghoste]

Did you use an over the counter setup or build your own from scratch?

[defiance]

Originally my dad installed a holley over-the-counter tbi kit - long before I owned it.  The installation was pretty jacked up and the ECU was broken when I got it, so I replaced it with a megasquirt ECU and reinstalled it.  I later had a shop modify an edelbrock intake for port injection, then when I decided a couple years ago to rebuild, I installed a edelbrock victor manifold (the rest remains the same).  So it's basically cobbled together several times over

[Rolling_Thunder]

I know this sounds odd - but just get a set up off of a newer 5.9L engine -    I have gotten a 440 to run on that system as well...    never got around to dynoing that engine because i was a cheap bastard - but the engine fired up and ran no problem - I installed a larger set of injectors, a PAW SSI cam (very mild), adapter plate to mount the 5.9L throttle body, and welded some bungs onto the intake...    had fuel rails made....         All together I had something like $500 into that set up

[mauve66]

they make 6pak throttle bodies and intake that will take the stock air cleaner (its so big it will hide a lot)

[Paul G]

I talked to this guy Jeff at Edelbrock, tech support person. He explained the operation of the system pretty well. It comes with everything needed. Only have to weld in a bung for the O2 sensor, the MSD box can be wired in, the rest bolts in. It can be tuned from the hand held or a laptop. And if you still have problems you can call him.

He said that you could expect a slight reduction in torque peak, but will pick up torque sooner and have a longer torque curve. Same with HP. He also said that you should expect a smoother idle and a gain in fuel economy. Small blocks they have tested in the 400 HP range get around 14 + mpg.

Anyone have an extra $2700 they can loan me?   

[Ghoste]

What is it about the FI that changes the curves and reduces the peaks?

[Rolling_Thunder]

What is it about the FI that changes the curves and reduces the peaks?

better fuel and spark control - better fuel distribution - a non-overly rich condition

[Ghoste]

If it's better then why is it down on peak power?

[Rolling_Thunder]

because it does not just dump fuel - you'll make more power with a lower air/fuel ratio (say 13:1) - but most EFI kits run at around 14.7:1 - making it easier to drive and better all around driveability but a little less peak power. 

[Ghoste]

Okay now I get it.  So it isn't that it makes less power, it's that it's set up to make less.  The potential is there for it to make equal or more.

[mauve66]

plus its more efficient i would say so your getting more for the fuel you are burning

[Mike DC]

The short answer about the improvements is that a carb is just a much more blunt instrument than EFI. 

Carbs have to be set up to err on the side of being too rich or else the motor will knock itself to pieces.  EFI doesn't really have more power potential in theory but it can get itself much closer to the ragged edge of being too lean without stepping over it.  That means MPG improvements in a big way. 

   

[Cooter]

440 with 750 DP Holley.= 14 MPG...

New Dodge Challenger with 5.7 or 6.1 HEMI = 20 MPG....

[Ghoste]

Gearing and engine size not being equal of course. 

[Rolling_Thunder]

Gearing and engine size not being equal of course. 

I'll be sure to let ya'll know how my 6.1 swap turns out...   I got 11mpg with my 440 combo...    trans and gears will be the same     

[Mike DC]

   
There's a lot to like about the modern motor but it has less torque than the old one. 

[Rolling_Thunder]

hmmmm    I understand that argument but honestly its not much different...    stock 440 = 375hp and 480tq...      Stock 6.1 = 425hp and 420tq...     yes it is less torque (60) but the newer engines have broader power bands, better street manners, and better economy...      I think the small sacrifice in tq (but increase in hp) is worth it...    yes I compared the 440 to the 6.1 stock for stock; i did not use the 426 hemi because of its general rare nature - as most people run a 440 in their cars...        even then the hemi only put out 490tq...    not a huge difference than the 440...   

[elacruze]

I have two engines in the works, the second of which will be built with discovery in mind as much as performance. I'll use a custom manifold with port injection, with an Adaptronic ECU (http://www.adaptronic.co.uk/) for engine management, and probably build a custom set of headers for it. One of the things I'm interested in (I'm sure this has been done, but not by me) is how much more or less potential is in my old motor than in a new one. My expectation is that the performance of the old engine will be at least on par in every area with the new engine, up to the design limitations (RPM and weight, etc) with no deficits except for efficiency, which is a design characteristic also. I think a 440 RB can be made to outperform a 6.1 Hemi in every category except fuel efficiency below 6000rpm.

Even if I'm wrong, it will be fun to find out.

[Ghoste]

I am looking forward to seeing all of your results in that (not so) little experiment.

[Cooter]

hmmmm    I understand that argument but honestly its not much different...    stock 440 = 375hp and 480tq...      Stock 6.1 = 425hp and 420tq...     yes it is less torque (60) but the newer engines have broader power bands, better street manners, and better economy...      I think the small sacrifice in tq (but increase in hp) is worth it...    yes I compared the 440 to the 6.1 stock for stock; i did not use the 426 hemi because of its general rare nature - as most people run a 440 in their cars...        even then the hemi only put out 490tq...    not a huge difference than the 440...   

By no means am I Trying to talk you out of a Newer Hemi conversion, all I was saying is 440 purchase price (Without the super crazy hook up on the Hemi's price, as around here, most will be spending in the neighborhood of around $6000.00 for an engine and trans), equals around $500-1000 and for $3500 more, you can have a nice 550 HP 440 and around 570 Ft Lbs of torque....With the newer Hemi, you will spend the entire budget for the buy and rebuild on just the engine..When it comes to fuel economy, To me, it just isn't worth it for the WOW,Fuel economy, or the trouble of rigging up all that computer EFI crap for an extra 6-9 MPG....But, that's just me..It is no longer a question of cubic inches anymore...It only a question of cubic dollars......

[suntech]

But, that's just me..It is no longer a question of cubic inches anymore...It only a question of cubic dollars......

Excuse me for beeing ruedly honest here, no harm ment,but that is not really a newsflash!!  It has allways been like that!!A lot of cubes and a lot of money will in most cases beat smaller cube on a tight budget!!

[Rolling_Thunder]

I did not take it as you were trying to talk me out of it...    (it's a little late anyway    haha) - but you make valid points...   the typical 440 is indeed more cost effective - but deals are out there...    I do all my own work as some others on this board so it allows me to keep the cost down on my engine swap...     I spent <$3000 on a complete 6.1 hemi (plus parts to install it and all that) = the total is $5,431.76     

Granted I was in the right place at the right time...    I sold my freshly rebuilt 440 for $3000...   so in essence it was almost a free engine trade for me...         I know this is not the normal situation but if you're in the right place at the right time anything is possible.

[firefighter3931]

hmmmm    I understand that argument but honestly its not much different...    stock 440 = 375hp and 480tq...      Stock 6.1 = 425hp and 420tq...     yes it is less torque (60) but the newer engines have broader power bands, better street manners, and better economy...     

I agree with the better fuel economy comment but i have to disagree on the broader powerband & street manners. A mild 440 with the right cam will pull hard from idle to redline. Even a stock 440 made peak torque at 3200 and feels real strong down low. In a 3900lb car 60ftlbs of torque is huge....

      I think the small sacrifice in tq (but increase in hp) is worth it...    yes I compared the 440 to the 6.1 stock for stock   

This is where we disagree....i'll trade 60ftlbs for 60hp any day of the week. Wanna guess which car will accelerate faster.    Which do you think would be more fun to drive ? 


The new hemi is a descent engine but it's no 440 ! 



Ron

[Cooter]

hmmmm    I understand that argument but honestly its not much different...    stock 440 = 375hp and 480tq...      Stock 6.1 = 425hp and 420tq...     yes it is less torque (60) but the newer engines have broader power bands, better street manners, and better economy...      

I agree with the better fuel economy comment but i have to disagree on the broader powerband & street manners. A mild 440 with the right cam will pull hard from idle to redline. Even a stock 440 made peak torque at 3200 and feels real strong down low. In a 3900lb car 60ftlbs of torque is huge....

     I think the small sacrifice in tq (but increase in hp) is worth it...    yes I compared the 440 to the 6.1 stock for stock    

This is where we disagree....i'll trade 60ftlbs for 60hp any day of the week. Wanna guess which car will accelerate faster.    Which do you think would be more fun to drive ?  


The new hemi is a descent engine but it's no 440 !  



Ron

Amen......................Somethin' bout a small block chevy sized Piston just don't sit right with me..And, if you want more Cubes, you have to run a locomotive Crank in the new Hemi to even get it up to 426 C.I.

With that much crank in a 440 would be something like a 600"-655" engine...THEN, we'll see who's torque curve is flatter.....Can you say 1000 Lb ft at 3000 rpm's...Ye' who starts with a bigger engine will Always end up with the bigger engine...That's my philosophy anyway...

[Paul G]

The way I am looking at this is not for the cost advantage of carb over FI. Carb is cheaper by far. My 72 runs awesome with the 750 Holley on it right now. No need to change it. Not for which makes more power either. It is more about being different at cruise night, car shows and just doing something different. It is great to see all the big Holleys and dual Eddy's at car shows and what not, but seeing a 5.7 or 6.1 or a 392 in one of our older muscle cars is just cool. Same thing with a vintage Hemi if it is not an original Hemi car. It's just cool to see someone who did something differently.

Putting a 6.1 Hemi under my hood is really my goal.   I just dont have the ability.   The Pro Flo kit is my next choice.  

 

[Ghoste]

It's not something I plan to do again I applaud anyone who makes the experiment.  Imagine if no one had ever thought to stick an old 331 Hemi between the frame rails of one of those derelict Fords from the 30's?

[Finn]

I'm running the edelbrock kit on my 440. I'll post a quick write up of my experiance thus far once I'm on my computer (on my phone right now).

[mopar_nut_440_6]

Do you have specs on your engine because running a 750 on a 360 seems large unless you have a pretty well built small block and a 4 speed or high stall and low geras. I ran a 750 on a 440 and was running 12's with a 4 speed it and it's street manners were great and the throttle response was to say the least exceptional. That in mind I raced every two weeks for 7 years on the drag strip with the same combo so it was very well tuned. Perhaps matching the carb to engine may improve overall drive ability. Smaller carb better street manners and a better transition between partial and full throttle. Just throwing it out there.

Here is my problem with newer fuel injected vehicles. This is just my rant so bear with me!

My stock 68-375 horse 440 always got 16 mpg and whether I drove it hard or not. My 2003 pickup with a 5.7 Hemi only gets 9 mpg in town but seems to have equal power to the 440. Two of the other fuel injected pickups I own or have owned, one with a 360 and a 5 speed and one with a 318 and an auto both seem to have poor mileage compared to a carbureted engine. The 360 only got about 12 in town and the 318 does much better at 16 but still I always think that why do these fuel injected engines get such poor mileage when my carbureted 440 could get 16 and make tons more power?

That said, the newer engines now seem to get better mileage and have great performance so the have worked some stuff out.

I have a stroker which gets 8 mpg if I drive decent, 5 if I am on it. I have considered fuel injection hoping that it could do better and warrant the cost of the setup. Tuning on fuel injection is no issue for me as I am a programmer by trade, understand engines and tuning and know I could make it work but am still waiting for the definite information which would tell me that my dollars invested would make it a worthwhile investment. To me a well setup Holley carb is still the answer.

I am looking forward to hearing what you do and hoping to get additional information to make me want to swap my carb for FI.

Cheers,

[Ghoste]

I suppose that part of the reason would be that carbs had several decades of development and that to a small degree it still requires X amount of fuel to generate X amount of work which is needed to move X weight X distance at X speed?  The mileage differences creep into the variables?   

[Cooter]

My stock 68-375 horse 440 always got 16 mpg and whether I drove it hard or not. My 2003 pickup with a 5.7 Hemi only gets 9 mpg in town but seems to have equal power to the 440. Two of the other fuel injected pickups I own or have owned, one with a 360 and a 5 speed and one with a 318 and an auto both seem to have poor mileage compared to a carbureted engine. The 360 only got about 12 in town and the 318 does much better at 16 but still I always think that why do these fuel injected engines get such poor mileage when my carbureted 440 could get 16 and make tons more power?
This because even with a small block in a truck weighing over 4500 LBs, you have to step in it further to do the same work as a big block would at lower RPM's....
That said, the newer engines now seem to get better mileage and have great performance so the have worked some stuff out.

I have a stroker which gets 8 mpg if I drive decent, 5 if I am on it. I have considered fuel injection hoping that it could do better and warrant the cost of the setup. Tuning on fuel injection is no issue for me as I am a programmer by trade, understand engines and tuning and know I could make it work but am still waiting for the definite information which would tell me that my dollars invested would make it a worthwhile investment. To me a well setup Holley carb is still the answer.Amen, Holley Carb=$500-$600 Brand new and works right out the box....Fuel injection set up and all hardware/software to run it= Over $5000.00 for a set up that will support 750 HP, all for around 3-5 MPG difference...

I am looking forward to hearing what you do and hoping to get additional information to make me want to swap my carb for FI.

Cheers,

[defiance]

$5000?  are you buying gold plated stuff?  I've rebuilt mine about 3-4 times and I'm about to again, and I still won't hit $5000 in it.  The setup (which I decided yesterday to upgrade to) will be a sequential injection with fuel capabilities for about 850 hp (though I'd probably need to upgrade fuel pump if I pass 700 ), coil-near-plug, with an amazing tuning suite (including auto-tuning for fuel map, though it isn't live auto-tuning -yet (that's in development).  Dual wideband oxygen sensors, datalogging to an SD card, the ability to tune EVERYTHING from the passenger's seat (or the driver's seat if you're at a dyno), I could add dual egt sensors for a relatively small additional cost, the list goes on and on - there are a ***LOT*** of extras in this config, and I could reproduce the entire setup for around $2500, I believe.  A basic setup could be MUCH lower than that and still support more than 750hp, and scaling what the fi system will support is just a matter of swapping injectors and maybe a larger throttle body (fuel pump has to be upgraded for either system, so I don't count that).  

Having said that, I'll certainly agree Carbs are GREAT, and I won't dispute that by any means.  They're perfect to put on a car and go.  But efi has its place too.

[Ghoste]

Is that an off the shelf setup or something that you've put together by the individual parts?

[Cooter]

The last time I checked with a buddy (Mustang 5.0) on the price of his Turbocharged Fuel injection set up to handle up to 1000  HP From F A S T Fuel inj. JUST the software and laptop was $4500.00...This wasn't counting the Injectors, Throttle body, CUSTOM intake, wiring harness, computer, etc....I know full and well, that there are some "Cobbled" together systems that function "OK"...I'm talking bout a "Plug and Play" system for the beginner carb guy that can buy it, dump it on his motor, and not have $4500.00 in software if he wants to go over 1000 HP later on....

Isn't the Edelbrock "kit" Like $3500.00 or something?

[Paul G]

The Edelbrock kit is $3100 give or take. Mass Flo has a kit also. They want $3700 for it.

[defiance]

f.a.s.t. pricing is crazy.  ms-2 can do everything but sequential injection for under $400, and the ms-3 will add that with an expected price of around $600.  Until lately most people preferred the FAST tuning software, but with the release of TunerStudio, I doubt that will remain the case.  But anyway, no, pieced together is still quite a bit less expensive than the bundles. 

[autodynamics]

I Have 10k on my transplant and I bet I drive it more than most guys here....I have plenty of power. There is no substitute for technology.

[Cooter]

For $10K, it better get driven....For that, Most can build a nice complete stroker engine...Sure, there's a substitute for technology, it's called M O N E Y...You ain't got it, you have to make your own "Technology"...

[autodynamics]

I mean I have 10k on my fuel injection system ... more than most members here.

[kamkuda]

As we all know, power comes from proper spark timing and AF mixture.

I always though (lean is mean) and power is made from air fuel.

A properly tuned engine builds a lot of its power through the timing it has over its operating range.  A drag car would be different as its timing comes all in fast 
This is one of the biggest benefits of an EFI system with a crank trigger.

You program in a VE curve  Fuel and Timing curve.

When I took the EFI university course, they had a 400 hp car on a dyno holding a static load.
When the adjusted a/f, there was a lot of adjustment available before power fell off
A degree or 2 of timing made a huge decrease in power.

Timing made the most difference in power output.

[suntech]

In my opinion there must be some misunderstandings about good efi systems, bad efi systems and carbs. On WOT it does not matter much what you have.......IF proparly tuned, even a carb will get you there. The timing curve is important to make power. But i think the "high end" systems are better in the way that you can make AF curves and timing curves pretty much how you want, has more features, and it has more variables that when tuned right gives you a USER FRIENDLY package, that fires up regardless of ambient or engine temperatures.......you can sit in a traffic jam for a week, and then drop the hammer, and it does´nt miss a beat......you know.....like a new car would do!! Plus they have quality hardware that works. There is a little power to find with a nice sequentional efi system, but i think the big thing is drivability. 

[kamkuda]

I think you nailed it.  There is likely no difference in peak power with all variables the same.    


Some Thoughts:
You can have different control with efi.  You can see more what variables may affect performance (such as coolant temperature or exhaust gas temp) and adjust the amount of fuel applied which can help with part throttle power. Part Throttle performance at different engine loads can be improved.

In EFI, you start with Base Table that the computer looks such as Volumetric Efficiency,  A/F/ Spark Table. Once your base table are done it can automatically adjust the A/F and timing to fine tune itself or you can force it to run standard tables

And it can automatically adjust for such things as change in altitude and air intake temperature for good performance under changing conditions



Personal Opinions... Carb Distributor versus EFI crank trigger
I have carb on my Cuda and it runs great.  I adjusted the distributor, old school (welded up the slots to limit timing to 18 initial and 36 total, used a lighter spring to get the timing to come in earlier, which the 408 likes. The holley is relatively easy to adjust, It was lean off idle and I added a larger squirter etc.  It has a part throttle lean that I need to address.

I wanted EFI on my Road Runner is because I am going to a procharger after and I wanted to try the new technology.  It was new for me so a bit of a daunting task.    
I needed to cut the 7 reluctors of the distributor to let the box get a cam signal.  Adjustments to get the crank trigger to fit with all the other stuff like pulley spacing, alternator placement etc.  Fitting the intake elbow and getting the sensors in place. Wiring! Plumbing for a "overbuilt" fuel system" with anticipation of a bigger horsepower powerplant.
Being an old Mopar there is little market for the products so custom work needs to be done.  Its nice that you can buy a efi victor intake without having to drill for efi.

It is expensive and a lot more work compared to a carb.

It has adjustability like nothing else.  I like to be able to see all sorts of info and its affect on performance.  (You can save data as it is running, ie 1/4 mile blast)

For me, it was a step learning curve and I have only got the car started,
I am running just the 500 inch engine (no procharger yet) and will learn the EFI system this year.  It is a challenge but I like that.

I don't think it will be that fast but I have a bet with a buddy who thinks it will be quicker than I do.


Just my humble opinion
It you want an easy, effective system that works well, proven and give great performance, get a carb, get the timing right and then tune for performance.

If you want more control and have the ability to fine tune Timing and A/F and have a system that can adjust so that the performance is great regardless of outside conditions, have a look at EFI.  There is a whole fuel economy part, but that was not part of my equation.  The Boxed systems may be much easier to setup than the system I had built (with help)

[mhinders]

What attracts me with EFi is that you get full control over injection and ignition, at your fingertips.

Imagine an engine with a giant intake, cam with big overlap and late closing intake valves, all resulting in low vacuum and slow intake air speed. It may be difficult to get a big carb to supply the correct mixture at idle and low revs.
With an EFI system you can set the mixture/ignition very exact to whatever this engine needs to make it streetable.

[suntech]

A little bit OT here, but still a story that is about aftermarket  EFI , and the different benefits.
I stand behind my earlier statement when we are talking about our "old fashion" single camshaft engines, that there is not much peak power gain to find with EFI versus carb, but....with modern dual cam setups, that is also adjustable, it is a completely different ballgame!!
There is just too many variables available to be able to get it right, you will need a good EFI system, and full control on timing..........and a dyno!!!!

I have told here earlier ( in a E 85 thread) that i am involved in rallycross (dirttrack) racing, and mostly handle engine (2,4 litre 4 syl 16 valve DOHC) and suspention on the car.
For this year we upgraded the motor a bit. What we did was to stroke it, with a forged crank with 1,2 mm longer stroke, to come as close to class limit as possible. ( 1,6 % volume increase).
We got pistons with wristpin 0,6mm further up, to have an identical combustion chamber and clearances on TDC. ( volume increase gave us a 2,6 % CR increase ).
We set it up with the same cam timing, and same map, and started up in the dyno. WE WERE WITHIN 0,5 % OF THE LAST YEARS CURVE !!!
Confused?? We were too   Then we started to play around, and things started to happen!! Remember that we putted a lot of time into the mapping and cam timing last year, so we did not have any "unleashed" power sitting there from last year!
We ended up with a 0,7mm more advanced inlet cam, and 0,3 mm more advanced exhaust cam, more fuel on some spots, less fuel on other.......more ign. timing on some spots......less on others!!!!
End of story was same peak horsepower, but a 12% INCREASE OF  PEAK TORQUE, AND A POWERBAND WE WOULD NOT EVEN DARE TO DREAM ABOUT!!
We got 17 % more HP on 4700 rpm, and peak torque moved down from 6100 rpm to 5900 rpm!!
Pretty amazing if you ask me!!

This would in my opinion be absolutely impossible to find without a good EFI system and the opportuneties it has, and ofcause the dyno

I bet there are a lot of "unleashed" power sitting around in many engines!!

[mhinders]

I bet there are a lot of "unleashed" power sitting around in many engines!!

Absolutely! I have myself in my current engine lots of that due the lack of a system that allows me to have full control of the engine...next summer the situation will be different...

[dodgechar]

         Read all that efi  vs carb threads and kept thinking  my 750 holley and a overdrive tranny add on would produce high  speed  top end & gas millage  in my 440hp. Less all the programming and efi wiring.  Carbs got about $250 -300 in trail and error tunning & very good street manners. Step into it and  yepi. I  thought adding overdrive to the situation might be better and less effort than  efi.  Close to the $ 2500 mark.    In the words of ,dirty mary and crazy larry,  UNLIMITED.    Im more of open highway  kinda guy that that short torque and stop stuff,  although I love that too.  3:91 gears & overdrive.                       What say you?

[Paul G]

         Read all that efi  vs carb threads and kept thinking  my 750 holley and a overdrive tranny add on would produce high  speed  top end & gas millage  in my 440hp. Less all the programming and efi wiring.  Carbs got about $250 -300 in trail and error tunning & very good street manners. Step into it and  yepi. I  thought adding overdrive to the situation might be better and less effort than  efi.  Close to the $ 2500 mark.    In the words of ,dirty mary and crazy larry,  UNLIMITED.    Im more of open highway  kinda guy that that short torque and stop stuff,  although I love that too.  3:91 gears & overdrive.                       What say you?

That is my set up, almost. My A518 is at the rebuilders. Should be going in the car in a few weeks. I am running a Holley 750 with 3.91 gears as well, just with a 360. I decided to put this years throw away money in to an OD trans instead of fuel injection this time around. Next year maybe, a small block Hemi. A518 bolts right up from what I hear. Still want to use the original long runner intake with a cable operated throttle body. And Hemi coil covers.

[dodgechar]

  So why the od instead of efi this time?   just wondering , I'm thinking same money about.

[Paul G]

In my situation the OD will make riding in the car a whole lot nicer. Lower cruise RPM, but keeping the 3.91's I still get good off the line performance. Just a better bang for the buck right now. And with my goal down the road being a small block Hemi, fuel injecting the 360 is probably money wasted. The FI parts are probably not usable on the Hemi, other than maybe the fuel delivery system.   

[dodgechar]

    Thinking the same w/ 3:91s. Also more top end on the highway. Maybe better gas milage.   And just like   saying Overdrive!  Someday for me someday.   thanks

[Budnicks]

Is anyone running fuel injection? Edelbrock makes a kit, I saw it on Mancini's website. Pro Flow also makes a kit. One of the mags did an article on the Pro Flo kit a while back. They gave it very good remarks.

My 72 is basically a street brawler. The 360 is very strong, but kind of finicky on the street. very touchy peddle, tip in kind of knocks you back in your seat. I love it!

My fuel pump is going south, being the cheap azz I am I would rather put the $100 toward a $3000 fuel injection set-up.

Tell me what you guys think.   

Check out   www.FBthrottlebodies.com  they make some very cool options for Mopars & EFI even a 'six pack' version, they are really good guys & are competitively priced...