Aftermarket fuel injection

[Paul G]

Is anyone running fuel injection? Edelbrock makes a kit, I saw it on Mancini's website. Pro Flow also makes a kit. One of the mags did an article on the Pro Flo kit a while back. They gave it very good remarks.

My 72 is basically a street brawler. The 360 is very strong, but kind of finicky on the street. very touchy peddle, tip in kind of knocks you back in your seat. I love it!

My fuel pump is going south, being the cheap azz I am I would rather put the $100 toward a $3000 fuel injection set-up.

Tell me what you guys think.   

[Rolling_Thunder]

Edelbrock makes a the Pro-Flo kit...   

[Paul G]

Edelbrock makes a the Pro-Flo kit...   

Well, I guess that limits the choices.   

[Cooter]

I would think a SB would be kinda gravy as the junkyards are full of Fuel Inj. 318-360's...


A BB Chrysler might be another tail all together...I've got plans for a port F.I. 440 just haven't gotten it down enough in price for the average "Joe" to fool with just yet...Right now it's Looking like about the same Money as above...
I'd like to see a $1500.00 F.I. "kit" that you could do at home for the 383-440 guys...

[myk]

F.I. for one of these cars seems like a really cool idea, but I know the tuning and troubleshooting involved is way more than most can handle...

[Cooter]

F.I. for one of these cars seems like a really cool idea, but I know the tuning and troubleshooting involved is way more than most can handle...

Sh*t, from what I've been reading, so's the Carburetor...

[Ghoste]

From my experience, they always have been.  I realized a long long time ago that I was no carb expert and oddly enough, almost everyone I knew that was into cars claimed to be.  A true carb tuning wizard is a rare find indeed.

[Cooter]

Not Really, you just have to have ALOT of patience and today's "Car Guy" wants it yesterday, Perfect, To run like his 2009 Vehicle, Run in 10's 1/4 mile, while still gettin' 40 MPG, and wants all this for $50.00.....


People are WAY too Technology Dependent to where when it comes to ANYTHING old skool, they are of course,.... lost...I refuse to jump on the "gotta have the latest new thing out cause everybody else has it"
bandwagon...I'll stick with carb's until F.I. can compete with the price and simplicity of a carburetor....If more would read up and actually understand how a carb works, it's no different than F.I. and a lap top...With F.I. you just don't get dirty that's all...

[Ghoste]

Agreed.  But I'm still no carb expert.

[defiance]

Well, I've been working on mine for years - I'll let you know how it works when I get it working!

The EFI though, has really never been the problem.  I've never managed to tune the injection right, but that's mostly because there's always something else wrong  

I think it's almost there, though.  I had it running a month or so ago, until I pulled it out of the garage, then it died and I had to winch it back in.  Turns out it had sat so long waiting on my 2-year engine build (part-at-a-time as I could afford it) build, a bunch of rust had built up in the gas tank and lines, so it clogged everything from the filters to the injectors as soon as I 'stirred it up' by moving the car.  So now I'm working on replacing all that stuff.  woo.  
Just another in a long line of similar examples.  I think I may actually be getting there now though

Just as an idea of the cost and expertice, the edelbrock kit looks pretty good and looks like it should be easy to install.  You could alternatively go minimal cost by drilling and installing epoxy-in injector bungs in your existing intake manifold, put together your own megasquirt ecu and round up a bunch of OEM injectors, sensors, etc from different applications, and probably have it running reliably on EFI for under $800, but you'd better know what you're doing!  Probably a good middle ground would be a pre-assembled megasquirt, Edelbrock's victor intake & rails, and all the supporting hardware.  It would require a bit more planning and know-how than the edelbrock setup, but could probably be done for less than $1500. 

Or you could go all out, get a f.a.s.t. or the Megasquirt-3 that's set to release in the next month or two, install a crank wheel and sensor, and set it up to run distributorless with sequential injection and direct ignition from a coil pack!      I mean come on, you know you need individual-cylinder control of exact fuel pulsewidth and timing, right?

someday....... 

[Ghoste]

Did you use an over the counter setup or build your own from scratch?

[defiance]

Originally my dad installed a holley over-the-counter tbi kit - long before I owned it.  The installation was pretty jacked up and the ECU was broken when I got it, so I replaced it with a megasquirt ECU and reinstalled it.  I later had a shop modify an edelbrock intake for port injection, then when I decided a couple years ago to rebuild, I installed a edelbrock victor manifold (the rest remains the same).  So it's basically cobbled together several times over

[Rolling_Thunder]

I know this sounds odd - but just get a set up off of a newer 5.9L engine -    I have gotten a 440 to run on that system as well...    never got around to dynoing that engine because i was a cheap bastard - but the engine fired up and ran no problem - I installed a larger set of injectors, a PAW SSI cam (very mild), adapter plate to mount the 5.9L throttle body, and welded some bungs onto the intake...    had fuel rails made....         All together I had something like $500 into that set up

[mauve66]

they make 6pak throttle bodies and intake that will take the stock air cleaner (its so big it will hide a lot)

[Paul G]

I talked to this guy Jeff at Edelbrock, tech support person. He explained the operation of the system pretty well. It comes with everything needed. Only have to weld in a bung for the O2 sensor, the MSD box can be wired in, the rest bolts in. It can be tuned from the hand held or a laptop. And if you still have problems you can call him.

He said that you could expect a slight reduction in torque peak, but will pick up torque sooner and have a longer torque curve. Same with HP. He also said that you should expect a smoother idle and a gain in fuel economy. Small blocks they have tested in the 400 HP range get around 14 + mpg.

Anyone have an extra $2700 they can loan me?   

[Ghoste]

What is it about the FI that changes the curves and reduces the peaks?

[Rolling_Thunder]

What is it about the FI that changes the curves and reduces the peaks?

better fuel and spark control - better fuel distribution - a non-overly rich condition

[Ghoste]

If it's better then why is it down on peak power?

[Rolling_Thunder]

because it does not just dump fuel - you'll make more power with a lower air/fuel ratio (say 13:1) - but most EFI kits run at around 14.7:1 - making it easier to drive and better all around driveability but a little less peak power. 

[Ghoste]

Okay now I get it.  So it isn't that it makes less power, it's that it's set up to make less.  The potential is there for it to make equal or more.

[mauve66]

plus its more efficient i would say so your getting more for the fuel you are burning

[Mike DC]

The short answer about the improvements is that a carb is just a much more blunt instrument than EFI. 

Carbs have to be set up to err on the side of being too rich or else the motor will knock itself to pieces.  EFI doesn't really have more power potential in theory but it can get itself much closer to the ragged edge of being too lean without stepping over it.  That means MPG improvements in a big way. 

   

[Cooter]

440 with 750 DP Holley.= 14 MPG...

New Dodge Challenger with 5.7 or 6.1 HEMI = 20 MPG....

[Ghoste]

Gearing and engine size not being equal of course. 

[Rolling_Thunder]

Gearing and engine size not being equal of course. 

I'll be sure to let ya'll know how my 6.1 swap turns out...   I got 11mpg with my 440 combo...    trans and gears will be the same