The crappy charging at idle question one more time?

[b5blue]

OK all I want is more alt output at idle, I don't need extra amp capacity. It's a 70 Charger with the only change from stock being a MoPar Performance distributor with an ECU. All the wiring and connections are good and everything works 100% fine. Alt., battery, regulator, all tested and fine. I just need more amps at idle with my headlights, wipers, defroster on ect. The instant I raise idle it's fine even with all of them on. I'm thinking about going to a Denso just for idle amps. My idle is where it should be for a 440/automatic so that's not it. (I couldn't care less about stock looks)   

[Cooter]

Typical Chrysler discharge at idle blues.....GM 1 wire solves this but some here will inevidably chastize you for it...I will never run a Chrysler Alt. again for this very problem...Yes, Chrysler offers a "One wire" set up, but the GM one is $50.00 At the most At my local Auto parts store and ALWAYS in stock...Chrysler one I can't say the same for.....

[Ghoste]

I'm just playing devils advocate here because I'm sure Nacho or someone has a fix for you but is it really THAT bad.  I only ask because mine does it too and it bugs me but then I think about the fact that how often am I in a situation where its discharging enough to do harm?  Every old car I've ever had went into a discharge at idle.  It doens't mean it's right and like I said, I'm sure someone will tell you how to fix it but at one time isn't that how they were intended to operate?  Unless you have added a lot of modern electrical conveniences to the car wasn't the original intent that the battery was also the reserve for when the alternator couldn't keep up and the system operated in a state of charge and discharge trying to stay balanced on average?
What about the really old systems that are still powered by a generator?  You want to talk about low rpm discharge, they only had 6 volt systems as well.
Again, I am NOT saying leave it alone, that it's fine as is.  I'm just asking is all.

[myk]

I just need more amps at idle with my headlights, wipers, defroster on ect. The instant I raise idle it's fine even with all of them on. I'm thinking about going to a Denso just for idle amps.

Here you go brother:

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,19802.0.html

This thread is years old but it's got just about everything you need to put in a 'denso 'alt and  get the charging performance that you want at ANY engine speed.  

I'm averaging 14.2 to 15 volts constantly; my battery and car's performance have never been better...

What about the really old systems that are still powered by a generator?  You want to talk about low rpm discharge, they only had 6 volt systems as well.

Yeah, a buddy of mine owns a '55 Crown 'Vic, and he has the 6 volt system.  Just starting that car is an ordeal because the system was never that good new, and with 50 years on the clock with the original wiring/system it's only gotten worse. 

[Nacho-RT74]

OK all I want is more alt output at idle, I don't need extra amp capacity.

getting extra output will get idle power.

Dunno the RPMs rated to give the output specs on alts, but lets think is 3000 RPMs. If you have two alts what one gives 55 and the other gives 75 both at 3000 RPMs, will mean the iddle output will be proportional with this spec.

then you can help with smaller pulley to get more Alt RPMs with given engine RPMs

the ONE WIRE is not THE solution really, that will help just on save somne wires running from firewall, thats all. what does happen is really NORMALLY the one wire alts are more output by default. If you notice the Powermaster alts they are not more than a mounted on regulators pieces and upgraded, but basically they are stock pieces.

there are vendors selling Stock alts with 78 amps output in about $50 , and also QUICKSTART ppl selling upgrade kits, in less than $50. You can get a lates 70s Mopar alt that will be a plug and play job on everything probably from any Junkyard on less than that.

Is true that GM alternators are more eficient, but not really because they are built in regulators or whatever. Is siumplye because they are better, and thats all. Stock GM alts will need some exciter to make them work. Down here in Venezuela when making that conversion, is installed a 168 wedge bulb with its socket in series with the system to substitute the resistor wire. I'm not exactly on how they work, but just an overview on the info.

[Cooter]

What about the really old systems that are still powered by a generator?  You want to talk about low rpm discharge, they only had 6 volt systems as well.
Again, I am NOT saying leave it alone, that it's fine as is.  I'm just asking is all.

It IS fine until the owner tries to imploy things like a GPS system, High powered Stereo, Extra lighting, Higher Watt. Headlights, Electric Fans, A/C, Power windows, Cruise, Power seats,  etc....

"Christine" had a Generator from the factory and back in 1958, it was fine, but with these cars out today with these "Cool Blue" headlights Blinding you at night, you really need to upgrade from the old sealed beam lights and they absorb more amps..

[Cooter]

OK all I want is more alt output at idle, I don't need extra amp capacity.

there are vendors selling Stock alts with 78 amps output in about $50 , and also QUICKSTART ppl selling upgrade kits, in less than $50. You can get a lates 70s Mopar alt that will be a plug and play job on everything probably from any Junkyard on less than that.

Is true that GM alternators are more eficient, but not really because they are built in regulators or whatever. Is siumplye because they are better, and thats all. Stock GM alts will need some exciter to make them work. Down here in Venezuela when making that conversion, is installed a 168 wedge bulb with its socket in series with the system to substitute the resistor wire. I'm not exactly on how they work, but just an overview on the info.

All you need to do to "Excite" the GM one wire is rev the engine slightly..Boom.. 14 Volts....

[Nacho-RT74]

I have collected and made lot of info and discussions, everyone together here:

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,62772.0.html

[myk]

Always a good read Nacho.

Personally, I say put in the 'NipponDenso, or at the very least the higher-amp'ed 70's alternators.  I got sick of dimming lights and all of that jazz while sitting at stops.  I dunno, newer cars have spoiled me I guess...

[Nacho-RT74]

well remember I'm kinda purist ans stockish guy. so I try to make the best with what you can get around and keeping factory look. Mopar look

Are there better options ? yes of course, but same as building an engine with better intakes, pistons, camshaft etc, but then won't get the stcok look... Nothing wrong with that, simply  I'm basically pointing out to the fact when opening the hood and keep the factory look

[Cooter]

I guess the "Import" Nippendenso Alt. are "ok" with the Chrysler croud as they came on factory Chrysler cars/trucks...

[Nacho-RT74]

BTW Is hard I get dimming lights with my 60 amps upgrade. Just If I set AC blower on med and press brakes geared at a traffic light... and having halogens. But normally you set low speed blower at nights

[Nacho-RT74]

I guess the "Import" Nippendenso Alt. are "ok" with the Chrysler croud as they came on factory Chrysler cars/trucks...

yeah, maybe... once again, nothing wrong just my preferences, I just vote for correct aged. Actually is more surprising on an old car get everything correct, than simply modern upgraded, what is easier to keep running. Is just a show and wow factor on an old car . More surpising being my car A DRIVER CAR

[b5blue]

Last night I ran defroster, headlights, and wipers. At idle it sucked everything down lower/slower. I'm in Florida, my car is my only ride. I have nothing extra, just normal lighting with new headlight switch and dimmer, 2 sp. wipers (new not rebuilt with new switch) and a new after market defroster. Nothing else not even a radio. All components are 100%. I want to sit at a light in gear with every light and accessory on and have it run fine just like every 300.00 POS I ever owned. So yes anytime it rains in Florida I need all of it and I want it at IDLE!!   Thanks guys!

[Nacho-RT74]

yes... wipers will make a discharge. But is not a normal situation. I live in a Tropical country bud, with similar Fl weather so I understand you.

If you want keep it Mopar, trust me, 80 amps will make the work, and Mopar alts, aged are available from some shops. I'M POINTING OUT NEXT TO THAT. I just got it better with the 60 amps unit, but still want more

will need wiring upgrade though. Read my links on the link I posted

[Nacho-RT74]

enter here:
http://www.beckcatalog.com/

search by aplication and will find alt PN 186-6268... 78 amps






you can search by PN, but preffer search by aplication and will find yourself the options

[myk]

Man, I couldn't imagine having to drive my Charger daily, especially in climates that head to extremes.  I USED to, but that was in my college days when I was so young I couldn't care less about anything. 

Nippondenso, the way to go...

[b5blue]

Thanks Nacho!

[Nacho-RT74]

well I just say and posted if you want to keep it aged Mopar. Nippodenso is a GREAT option if you don't care about correct look and aged... then your decision about keep ammeter or not. Make the read and pick up your method

[myk]

Well I just installed the headlamp-relay upgrade for the low beams, and my volt output has never been better; I'm averaging 15 volts with brakes, lights and idling going on.  Voltage drops to about 13.2 when I put it into gear but I'LL TAKE IT.  Would everything electrical in the car work better if they were all attached to relays?  I'm so excited I want to "relay" the whole damn car, lol...

[b5blue]

The actual "shape" or "look" is not an issue, as the car must be used as a daily driver absolute reliability is #1 concern. My system never failed completely, with all stock stuff after it had sat waiting for the engine rebuild (over 4 years) I had to replace the then 12 year old voltage regulator to drive at night with all lights on and be OK at idle (OK meaning have needle not into battery side of gauge) I'm going to save up and do the Denso swap if it is sure to end weak idle amps. I have no large amp draws and will never add more than a radio @ 3-5 amps at most and A/C that runs off the same blower I've got now. I've always run a battery equal to factory specification. Having USAF electronic training and a Dad with 2 engineering degrees who had me soldering circuits in second grade, I had already cooked up relay concepts for my car if needed. Seeing Nacho's diagrams and reading his opinion on how he approaches these problems we are of the same mindset.         

[Nacho-RT74]

I "relayed" just the high consumption stuff. These are what could burnt the switches. so I have:
low and high beams ( upgraded to halogens )
4 speeds blower ( low, mid, high, and heater speeds )

and fit at:
headlights beams at kick panel
lower and mid speed above the glove box liner
heater and high speed above steering column below the dash.

dunno on earliers, apparently not, but on 3rd gens the blower lever switch ALLWAYS melt the plug due the bad quality and poor surface points inside the switch

I run a positive wire ( 12 gage ), like a buss, from ammeter stud alt side ( with parallel wires upgraded. CAN'T BE DONE WITH JUST STOCK WIRING ), making splices on the right places and using bullet terminals on splices, to be able to make mods on splices without remove the BUSS wire along the dash frame. Used a fuse link to feed the buss wire.

I'm saving on this:
-Run a positive wire all along the engine bay, and then through the firewall. That's already done on the parallel ones.
-heat and sulfate, dust, rust over relays. Enviroment conditions. Thas what tipically damage them.
-any viisble mod, keeping the TOTALLY STOCK LOOK.
-NO CUT WIRES ANYWHERE. I simple removed original terminals, plugged them at relay socket and running the new wires up and from relay socket. Used same color wires to keep codes and umodified look.

run relays in all the car ? LOL... that will take LOOOT OF REWIRE JOB... can it be done ? yes, but... not really necesary to low consumption devices.

[Charger RT]

The actual "shape" or "look" is not an issue, as the car must be used as a daily driver absolute reliability is #1 concern. My system never failed completely, with all stock stuff after it had sat waiting for the engine rebuild (over 4 years) I had to replace the then 12 year old voltage regulator to drive at night with all lights on and be OK at idle (OK meaning have needle not into battery side of gauge) I'm going to save up and do the Denso swap if it is sure to end weak idle amps. I have no large amp draws and will never add more than a radio @ 3-5 amps at most and A/C that runs off the same blower I've got now. I've always run a battery equal to factory specification. Having USAF electronic training and a Dad with 2 engineering degrees who had me soldering circuits in second grade, I had already cooked up relay concepts for my car if needed. Seeing Nacho's diagrams and reading his opinion on how he approaches these problems we are of the same mindset.         

With all your loads on take a voltage reading at idle at the battery and a second one right off the battery stud on the back of the alternator. post both voltages. Were in Florida are you? I'm in Highlands county.
Tim

[myk]

run relays in all the car ? LOL... that will take LOOOT OF REWIRE JOB... can it be done ? yes, but... not really necesary to low consumption devices.

How about my MSD unit?  That's a high energy device.  Could it benefit from a relay also?

[b5blue]

Hey Tim  I'm in Pinellas Co. and my primary concern is I've been stuck in traffic for over 1/2 hour in one spot with lights, wipers, and de-frosters running. I'm not going to run around "high idling" to solve this as curb idle is exactly where it should be for a440/6 pack running 89 octane. One the MSD relay yes it would take the extra amperage off your ignition circuit, so would a separate switch for it.